A turbine as a first PLANE
 

Ok, this is to instrutors, this topic has been raised at my club many times,
and im wondering what people on RCU think about this:
what would you do (as an instrutor), if a new club member comes down with
a Eurosport, Roo, or even BANDIT!. and he ask you to fly it, and teach him/her how to fly it!
what would you do if you made no jet experience.
and what will happen if you crash it, will they sue you?? who knows

What do you think about this??[X(][X(][X(]

Cheers
Volkan

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

training wheels before motorcycles.

sean

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

I am no instructor, but if I were I would tell him to go buy a trainer.

After all, if he has enough money for a turbine engine plane, a trainer and equipment would be chump change!:)

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

:D hahaha:D

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

Agree with wings. I am an instructor (and club VP and Safety Director) and can tell you that the gentleman would be told in no uncertain terms that he will not learn on a turbine. If he had a problem with it, he'd be given his dues back and asked to find another club.
Dennis-

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

What if it's a 90 size trainer and you strap a jet to it's back? That sounds like fun.

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

Hi,

Turbines are very dangerous and need to set up very carefully. Most of the turbine powered models go fast, but even if say he put a small one in a trainer, I still think it would be a bad idea. If he was hell bent on learning to fly it then my guess it would take a very long time to learn to fly it, if ever.

Much better buying a simple trainer and learning on that first.

Stefan

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

I think Mike was being sarcastic. I hope he was[8D].

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

Wildthing, contrary to what you believe, turbines are no more dangerous than some of the 150 or 200cc gassers I have seen out there swinging a big prop at high RPM. I do agree that they are in no uncertain terms NOT for a beginner, or even a second or third plane. You have to walk before you run, and after you learn to run fast, THEN you can buy a turbine!:D

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

learn to walk before even think of climbing Everest

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

Not to mention the fact that the AMA requires a waiver to fly a turbine powered aircraft.

Andy

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

Tell that fella, You have a guy in NY that will trade him a trainer for his turbine. :-)

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

I would not reccomend a turbine as a first plane.

The thing about a turbine is, flying one depending on the model is actually not that hard. Taking off is not really that hard either also depending on the model. It's the landings that require a LOT of learning.

Your dealing with a few factors, like residual thrust and throttle lag.
Most of the time you will land long until you figure out how to get the plane slowed down at the right time. If your short, you cannot just "blip" the throttle like a prop. You are dealing with spool up times of 5-7 seconds. That's a long time when your plane is reaching stalling speed faster that the turbine can catch up.

My main focus of rc airplanes has been ducted fan for the last 12 or so years. I flew almost every single jet made and I would say that I was a very proficient jet flyer.

So when it came time to get a turbine, I would have thought I would transition pretty easily....WRONG!

The plane I chose was a "turbine trainer", which by the way really doesn't mean it flies like a trainer. It is still a pretty heavy wing loaded aircraft and can be quite fast.
The takeoff was a cinch, the flight was fantastic, but when it came time to land, I found myself going around, and going around, and going around until I thought I had it nailed.

behold the results: [link=http://www.clubfield.com/av8rcrash.MPG]First Turbine Landing[/link]

The plane luckily was not damaged and I went on to fly this plane about 40 more times before I lost it in a spin recently.

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

Actually I don't think it's a great idea to learn on a jet, but I was thinking of that add that pops up here all the time. The yellow straigt wing jet that looks like a trainer. Of course the add didn't pop up this time so I don't know the name, but I know you've all seen it. Anyway, it sure does look like a trainer and the engine starting is all automatic. The contruction and safty of a big trainer with a jet is one thing, but I don't think it would be completely imposible to learn to fly on a trainer with a jet on it's back. I'm teaching my son to fly on a low wing sport plane right now and it's slow but progressing fine.

Note: Just trying to answer the question if it could be done, not if I think he should try it.

Edit: Great, now the add pops up. Facet 1200/2300.

Edit 2: Just to be real clear for all of you that think I'm a little (or a lot) nuts [&:] I think it's a real bad idea too.

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

Give him plane direct advice to get a trainer. If he/she does not see the light- 'walk away'

Stupid is as stupid does....

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

I don't even understand the concept of a "debate" on the issue -- it is a suicidal idea. I don't think that ANY responsible instructor would consider teaching a beginner on a turbine. There is an excellent chance that the plane will do serious or fatal damage to something/someone.

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

As usual it never stops amazing me how narrow minded people in this hobby or this forum are.

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

See here's the deal with "turbine trainers".
They are called trainers, but not a trainer as in learning to fly, they are trainers as in learning to manage a turbine.

The Facet can do about 180mph! Don't let the straight and top wing fool you. They do not handle anything like a prop trainer.

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

I don't have the link to it, but a guy built a SPAD turbine plane. No kidding, a $50 airframe with a $1200 turbine on it. It's a rather high-drag, slow moving thing, I think he said top speed around 80-90mph.

Still, typical trainer speeds for training are in the 40mph range, maybe even slower for some.

Factor in the throttle lag Shok mentions, and no, personally, I wouldn't train anyone using a current turbine.

In the future, who can tell. Turbines are getting smaller and more reliable all the time. I suspect we'll be seeing micro-turbines before too long. When we get to that point, it might become pratical.

Fwiw, I also wouldn't train anyone on a Dr.1, a Cap, or a pylon racer (unless the racer had a de-tuned sport engine, then we'd talk about it).

I did train a guy on a Top Flight Elder. Not a trainer, closer to an ultra stick in flight performance. He was a quick student, and was learning fine, though slower than he might have. Even taught him take off and landing on the Elder, tail dragger with narrow mains and everything. Sure, it took a lot of practice to get in the air, but he got there. (Before he was soloed though, he went and bought a trainer. Soloed like 2 flights later on the trainer, it was so much easier than the Elder).

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

I wonder….. Can I find a flight school that skips the Cessna and trains students using an SR-71. Or better yet if I buy an SR-71 second hand from the government do you think I could find a trainer who would teach me to fly it? Hmmm…???



The above sentences are meant to be funny and in no way relate to actual events or desires. Any likness to actual events are purely circumstantial.

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

Please do not take this the wrong way! In all honesty every R/C club should have at least one turbine certified instructor that is a waver holder to help other members that would like to move to turbines. Turbines are looked upon as a mystical thing now by many of the prop flyers, but in the very near future I predict they will be very common. It doesn’t get more realistic that a jet R/C aircraft powered by a turbine! The turbines are going to have a huge impact on our hobby

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

I believe they are also looked at as a very EXPENSIVE thing, lol.

I am bummed when I crash a $150 plane,lol.

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

MikeMc wrote --"As usual it never stops amazing me how narrow minded people in this hobby or this forum are. "

You are dead right on the narrow minded bit. There are some individuals in this hobby who don't have a shred of responsibility or common sense. They are the "me -- me -- me" group who don't give a fig for anyone else, just as long as they can play with their toys without supervision, responsibility or accountability. They are prepared to risk every modellers enjoyment so that they can indulge themselves. All rc models beyond a park flyer are literally guided missiles with the ability to kill & maim. A turbine trainer, even a 90 mph SPAD turbine, is a lethal machine if handled without responsible care. Putting such a machine in the hands of a novice is irresponsible & it risks all of our "right" to enjoy this sport. The first time one of those "trainers" blows through the side of a house or school bus will be the very last time that jets are allowed in the hands of any modeller & may even imperil the entire sport.

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

Wow,

Somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, lol.

Speaking of narrow minded, he is entitled to his opinion. Narrow minded is when you see your own opinion as the only option and degrade others for having an opinion that differs from your own.


Besides, if you are messing with your plane on the bench at the field and all the sudden hear a plane coming. Turn around to find it is heading towards your face. When you are dead you are dead, Doesn't much matter if you were killed by a glow plane or a jet does it?

RE: A turbine as a first PLANE
 

Actually that's not the meaning of marrow minded, but don't ya just hate those people. <- sarcasm.