First step to a corsair
 

my goal is to fly a (large as I can afford) corsair. I have eccepted the fact that it should not be my first plane. I'll concider all sugestions but seem to have my mind on 3 options. The duraplane, its cheaper and appears most durable (I can see myself at some point trying to fly solo a little early in my training) but im told they are not as stable as some trainers. The sig cadet senior is the bigest (i like that) and best looking but also the most expensive and I worry, can wings that large be impact resistant enough for me. Or, would the sig kadet lt-40 be a good compromise? I do intend to get a good 6 channel radio right away. I am wondering however sould i also get an engine that is larger. Will for instance a .65 motor fit were a .46 is rcomended?

You all have some great advice and opinions.
Thank you in advance

First step to a corsair
 

I’ve not flown the duroplane but have seen it at the field. It is pretty crash resistant but that comes at the cost of weight. The added weight does effect handling and performance. If you have a good instructor and are willing to spend some extra time on the buddy box, it may be a good trainer for your ultimate goal. I have flown the Sig Cadet Senior and it is a real pleasure. It is slow enough to allow a beginner to respond, and its size provides great visibility. In my opinion, it’s certainly one of the best trainers out there. The Kadet LT 40 is also a good trainer. It is a little more compact and a little faster than the Senior but is quite satisfactory.

Don’t even consider using an engine larger than the recommended range. A lot of experienced fliers overpower their aircraft to gain aerobatic performance such as hovering and unlimited vertical, and they have the skill necessary to deal with it. Both the installation and the resulting flight characteristics unnecessarily complicate things for a beginner. You will be a better pilot if you learn to fly the wing and not just jerk an airplane around the sky with power. Don’t worry about future use of the engine. You will likely wear out the first one on your trainer and a second intermediate one (at least) before you are ready for the Corsair.

Try to link up with a club and discuss the matter with a prospective instructor. A lot of them have favorite trainers that they like to fly. With your ultimate goal in mind, and your concern about damage, you might seriously consider building from a kit rather than ARF. It will take you a little longer to get in the air, but if you build it you can fix it.

First step to a corsair
 

The first plane I flew was a Duraplane. I learned on my own with that plane and it can take
a beating. My second plane was a Carl Goldberg Eaglet. Compared to the Duraplane, the
Eaglet fly's like a kite, very very easy compared to the Duraplane. I am guessing the Senior
and the Kadet, neither of which I have flown, might be more along these lines.
The Duraplane is suppose to be a trainer, but that is being generous with the word trainer.
I am glad I learned on it since it made me a better flyer in the end. Flying the Eaglet was really
easy after the Eaglet. So it really depends on what your looking for. I would go for the Duraplane if
your going to get instructed and "at some point trying to fly solo a little early in my training". The repairs
will be relatively easy unless you really slam it into the ground. I put an OS .46fx on it and I could really
get it going. On the other hand of course a real trainer plane will help you learn to fly faster and easier
as long as you don't solo too early...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

First step to a corsair
 

Louw's last paragraph in his response to you just about covers it all. The Kadet Senior from Sig is a fine airplane but the ARF costs a bundle. I've built three Kadet Seniors and powered them all with .60's but then I fly at an altitude of 5,000' ASL. I've also assembled an LT40ARF and put a .46 in it. Other than the fact that it is a bit tail heavy as it comes out of the box it's a nice airplane too. Depending on the altitude at which you fly and the temperature at the time you fly density altitude enters the equation. 83 F at our airport means an altitude of over 8,000'. In this case more power is required. You should buy the engine for your Corsair at the time you build it and fit it to your flying field conditions. As to the radio a good 6 channel computer radio with 6 model memory will allow you to get by with one Xmitter and then all you have to buy for more airplanes is a flight pack each. Futaba has a new radio T6EXA for less that $200 from Tower and probably the same price at any other Futaba dealer. I can't recommend the Duraplane. Tough but definitely not a trainer.

RE: First step to a corsair
 

DO NOT BUY A DURAPLANE!!! I choose one for my first airplane and It was not a good choice. It was very heavy and very difficult to adjust the proper CG. Trying to fly this thing was like trying to fly a 2X4 nailed to a sheet of plywood in a hurricane. Yes, They are tough but they fly like they look. Crap!!! My instructor who was a seasoned pilot strongly advised me to get a better trainer. I took his advice and bought a PT-40 and I learned to fly on that plane with ease. Granted this was 15 years ago when Duraplanes were just released. I am now back at square one starting over again after 12 years of absence from the hobby. I would hate to see anyone go through the frustration that I went through for thier first plane.

RE: First step to a corsair
 

since you already have a goal set for what you ultimately want to fly i do think that you should get the initial gear for it. a 6 channel radio is what i would advise to begin with because most 4 channels only come with 3 servos leaving you to buy the fourth thats another 10-15 $ and for that you could just get a 6 channel with gear and flaps (hmm sounds like a corsair to me) you want a big 'un so go with the largest trainer you can get i believe a 60 sized kadet is it and by all means put the recomended engine on it DO NOT go oversized they have a very wide range as it is if it says 60 to 90 four stroke that doesnt mean that a 1.08 2 stroke is good. then after some time in the trainer make your second and third planes logical in terms of your goal

RE: First step to a corsair
 

Welcome aboard, RJV. You have made some good decisions so far, and you're getting some good advice. I hope you sort it out and make some choices that make sense for you.

I will only suggest that there are some excellent 60 size trainers out there. One fellow I know put a Tower .75 on a Trainer 60, and learned at about a quarter throttle.

The second plane should probably not be a warbird, either. Maybe a Goldberg Tiger 60 or some such. After you convert it to a taildragger, and fix it a few times after abrupt landings, you'll be closer to building that Corsair. Maybe a 1/8th Pica or some such.

But that's all getting a long way ahead of the game. Enjoy the learning experience. Maybe your tastes will switch to 3D or Pattern, or Giant Scale, or biplanes! Or maybe you'll want a Mustang. Go for it, but take your time. Safety first.

Good luck!
Dave Olson

RE: First step to a corsair
 

If you would really like to fly a Corair immediately, you could make the 5 hour trip to Olcott, NY. I run the only hobby shop in the world that makes a fly before you buy offer to anyone. We will give you flight instruction (minus the limitations of a buddy-box) on a trainer the first hour and low wing instruction after that (same day). Within a couple of hours you will be able to takeoff and land with the trainer and a very good chance with the low wing plane (Super Sportster). I have a Corsair on the building board for the purpose of giving flight instruction in the future.

Cost? Traveling cost. All we would like you to do in return is to immediately report what you experienced. Why? Because too many people in this hobby absolutely refuse to believe that it is possible to learn so very quickly.

Joe Bartholomew
Lighthouse Hobbies
1560 Lockport St.
Olcott, NY 14126
1-716-778-0471

RE: First step to a corsair
 

Warbird = 4th airplane, you can get a toned down kinda fake warbird like the H9 Mustang for a 3rd plane but if its really big and scale that your looking for then I would wait until plane #4. Really big scale warbirds fly like a Brick!! I would stick with the lighter .40 sized if I just had to have one.

RE: First step to a corsair
 

my first plane was a superstar40 by hobbico which was great then moved to a midstar 40 - did that as a tail dragger...worked great for me but kept both at os40fx engines - then moved to a kyosho cap232 ..next one?

RE: First step to a corsair
 

RJV,

If your able to I'd take nascarjoe up on his offer. However I think you will find that his claim is a little too optimistic IMHO;) I would really like to here some feedback on this training method since I've seen this claim posted in several other threads.

Frankly, I think its misleading for someone like nascarjoe to cliam he could teach you to fly a scale corsair in just a few short hours. You may if you are lucky learn to take off and land a trainer in a few hours but a corsair.... please!![:@]

I would suggest that nascarjoe might be intrested in a little test. Ask him to provide you with a corsair free of charge and if after 10-15 solo flights on it IF you haven't rekitted then you can pay him otherwise cost was on him.. .. AND PLEASE POST REPORTS HERE

RE: First step to a corsair
 

CRASHEM, how hard is it really? Once the plane is off the ground and flying there's just left/right, up/down.

It couldn't be any easier....I really think most of these claims about how hard it is to fly a model is exaggerated.
I hear the same things from the guys I just met at the field where I'm going to fly. They snicker at me when I tell them I'm going to build a 120 sized Mustang over the winter, and learn to fly it in the spring.

Is there a bit of snobbery going on in this hobby?

RE: First step to a corsair
 

Crashem,
Good idea. The offer is open to anyone. There it is in print for anyone to take me up on the offer. BTW, I'm not the instructor, but I have someone who will be glad to take anyone up and train them to fly and with just about any type of aircraft.

All we ask in return is for them to do exactly what you suggested and report the results, good or bad. BTW, we will supply the airplane but the Corsair is currently on the building board and won't be ready to fly until next flying season, but we have other low wing planes for even the rank beginner can fly and he or she will not be held responsible for any damage. I realize that many will find such claims "unrealistic" but all I can say is, seeing is believing.

nascarjoe

RE: First step to a corsair
 

take it from someone who taught himself how to fly & though as you did, there is more to it than up down & left right. you would be wise to build a spad or fly the duraplane if you want to learn in a hurry so the repairs don't keep you grounded.

RE: First step to a corsair
 

I'm not sure if you are joking being sarcastic or are actually serious!!!

In any event I was speaking from experience not snobbery

About 13 years ago I had a nice P-51D I was in college at the time and had been flying a royal 20s ARF thought to myself I'll just take the p-51 up and fly a couple of nice easy laps 1.5 to be exact stalled it in a turn and put it in a spin that I wasn't experienced enough to recover from end of flight (3-4min) and end of plane.

But hey as you said how hard can it be!! Good luck with you 120 mustang

RE: First step to a corsair
 

nascarjoe,

Let me make sure I understand EXACTLY what your offer is... please correct me if I'm wrong.

From your post #8 I was left with the impression that you are implying that in a couple of hours (2-3) your instructor can teach a total beginner how to safely and consistently fly and land a low wing model R/C plane even a scale corsair (RJV dream plane).
is this accurate ???

I don't mean to sound skeptical.... but this I would really like to see.... Ever thought about patenting your wonder technique??? Need a partner?:D

RE: First step to a corsair
 

(sez Howard Huze)

Howard, if you come to our field with your AMA membership and your new Mustang, we'll probably ask you some questions, like what your flight experience is and so forth. We provide a field for our club members, and training, and the safety rules say all flying must be done safely. We're liable for damage the neighbors and their property. We haven't seen a lot of trainees fly P51's safely.

However, if you are going to fly on your own property, without instruction, don't keep us in the dark here. Have someone video the experience, and post it here.

Nascarjoe, perhaps you'd like to explain this training procedure for us, here? Lots of us won't be making the trip, for economic reasons.

Crashem is not being rude or snobbish. I don't think I am, either.

Good luck,
Dave Olson

RE: First step to a corsair
 

Crashem,

No, I'm not saying that EVERYONE who comes here will learn how to consistantly learn how to takeoff and land a Cosair totally on their own within a couple of hours, what I'm saying is that they will be able to safely fly, even takeoff and land a low wing plane WITH the help of my instructor, something that apparently no one else will do nor even thinks is possible. But SOME may learn well enough to indeed learn to takeoff and land an advanced plane entirely on their OWN within a few hours or 1 or 2 days. But literally EVERYONE will at least get sticktime and actually know what it's like to fly a low wing plane such as a Corsair.

As far as passing on this teaching method, my instructor has been trying to do so for many years now. This is something that one will have to personally witness I guess.
But I imagine that you've probably read or heard about his teaching method on his website before. To tell you the truth, I was just as skeptical as you, if not more when I was told his this guy's amazing teaching talents. That is until he trained me to fly, plus when I witnessed him teach many of my customers to fly. Right now, I'm running into the same problem attempting to share this with my distributors such as Horizon and Great Planes, but at least they are listening.

Maybe it's a pipedream, but perhaps some RC industry member will finance my instructor's traveling out of town to give demonstrations of his teaching method and even try to teach others his method. AMA and several industry members are indeed fully aware of his talents. I can understand that people will seem to absolutely refuse to think that such a thing is possible, ( I'm just as guilty) but what I can't understand is why no one has ever demanded proof.

Don't know how much this will help, but check out the treads on this site:

http://mbz.portage.net/cgi-bin/yabb/...40010;start=30

nascarjoe

RE: First step to a corsair
 

I thought it would be different here in these forums but I'm experiencing the same negativity I get at the field from you guys.
Just because it took you guys a long time to learn doesn't mean everyone will take a long time.
I think, no I know that I can handle a Mustang because I'm a natural athelete, and have been all my life.
I practice on my simulator.
I can fly anything I attempt to on the video trainer, and I don't see what's made out to be so hard.

Up/down, left/right.......Yep, it's hard.:D

RE: First step to a corsair
 

I think you could learn in a day or so, I did and taught myself, but sure did have a hard time with the balancing/CG thing and setting the trims just right. A plane where the CG is off will fly poorly, if it even flies at all. Furthermore, a plane that is not properly trimmed is also a hand full.

Also I should say I learned on a Zagi and put it into the ground about 10 times before it flew for a whole minute or so. :D

You're right about up/down, left/right, but factor in speed, lift, drag, thrust, pitch, roll, yaw, wind, sun and orientation, it's a bit different then the sim. Good luck. ;)

RE: First step to a corsair
 

howard_huze

Have you actually tried flying a real model yet or are you still on the simulator???

Your comments lead me to believe you have little or no actuall flying experience. Have you soled yet? Can you consistently fly the pattern maintaining a constant atlitude thoughout the flight? How about aerobatics? Tried any loops cuban 8's Spins, outside loop?

I'm not knocking you nor am I attacking your claims that you have found it easy to fly I'm just curious as to the exent of you actual amount of flying time and it kinda sounds like the guys that you fly with have similar questions (hence the snickering you mention)

BTW I couldn't care less if you ignore the advice given and whether you do or don't smack up the mustang is your business so its not neccessary to start a flame fest. I was just trying to get an idea of how much experience you have to back up your cliams

RE: First step to a corsair
 

nascarjore,

Would you mind explianing which low wing planes you are referring to?

Or can anyone walk into your store and test fly anything you have for sale....

RE: First step to a corsair
 

nascarjoe, I may be interested in your offer next spring ( the travel becomes fun when you've just purchased a new motorcycle) however I would like to know what model corsair you have.

RE: First step to a corsair
 

Crashem,

We have several low wing planes for the public to fly, like the Supersporster 40, Extra 300, GP 40 size Corsair (next year) and a Fokker D7 Bipeplane.

Yes, anyone can fly any plane we have ready to fly. I've only been open less than a year, but we intend on adding many more planes which will be ready for anyone to fly.

RJV, it will be a pleasure to let you fly anything we have in stock, of course, it has to be ready to fly. What we are doing is having the kit or ARF in stock of the plane we will let anyone have a test flight with. If you do take us up on our offer, we would appreciate it if you post your experience, (good or bad) anywhere on RCU. We have found that this is the best way to market RC airplanes, and we do the same with RC helis. Anyone interested?
This type of marketing has worked for auto dealers for many years now.

nascarjoe