Beginner recommendations
 

I haven't flown in 25 yrs & am thinking of buying a Kombat 40 trainer, although ugly, it looks almost indestructible.

Why don't more recommend this type of plane for those who are dead set on learning on their own?

Curious.

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

I don't know about the trainer, however, learning on your own is NOT RECOMMENDED.

The typical first flight of someone learning on their own (especially with a glo plane ) is less than 30 seconds and normally results in damage to the plane/equipment. This can be as severe as a total rekitting.

Now if you have extra money you don't know what to do with, I will gladly send you my address and you can send this extra money to me. :D

Seriously though, when learning to fly, if you are not on a buddy box, you are a BIG HAZARD to everyone in the area since you do not have adequate control of the plane. Would you put a 16 year old kid with no driving experience behind the wheel of a high powered vehicle (or any vehicle for that matter ) and allow the person to drive on public roads ?

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

Skybob,

No need for a teacher. Get up as high as you can and figure it out from there. It's easy!

Kraus

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

Kraus has a strange sense of humor. Read some of his other posts.

You said you haven't flown in 25 years, how much had you flown back then? If you had progressed to the "intermediate" level with sport type (low wing) planes, then re-learning may not be too big a deal.

I'd also suggest finding a club and maybe having someone get you up on a Buddy Box for a couple flights. It could easily save your plane, and at the very least will let you get your thumbs back with little risk. (And possibly make you some new friends.)

Welcome to RCU, and welcome back to the hobby! There have been some terrific advancements in the last 25 years. ;)
Dennis-

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

If i can learn in under a month to not only fly, but do basic aerobatics like loops, rolls, stalls, split-s, etc, i'm sure you can. You just have to be sensible about it. I always recommend people to go to an instructor, but if your deadset on learning yourself, thats fine. I never crashed while i was learning with my trainer, but be prepared for the worst, especially if your by yourself . I would alsp recommend that if you feel like you weill be learning all over again, look at a high wing, high dihedral trainer. Either flat bottom or semi semetrical winged craft would be your best bet. Hobbico Avistar, Hangar9 Arrow, Hobbico Superstar, Hangar9 Alpha 60, or others like these from Sig, Great planes, etc....... good luck !!

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

Thanks, guys for the advise. Things have changed since I last flew & I think the biggest advancement has been w/simulators of which I'm currently using. I'm starting out with a Hobbico Ventura to get my feet wet (again), then I'll proceed probably with glow later this year.
I flew a friends Ventura recently & did pretty well. It felt good to be back in the saddle again.

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

I would recommend real flight!

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

Either Real Flight or AeroFly Pro are great Sims. Both have extremely realistic graphics and programmable conditions like wind speed and direction.
Dennis-

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

DB Cherry.

It's not a strange sense of humor. There are worse folks than you or I. Some folks actually think their live are void if they crash their plane. I say Oh Jesus just rebuild you friggin' idiot.
Kraus

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

Skybob-

Getting back to your original question, which I'm not sure anyone answered, is that these types of planes, including the Duraplane, Aircore, etc. are heavier than a typical balsa trainer and just don't fly as well. I have both a SPAD Debonair (gutter pipe and Coroplast) and a Sig Kadet. The SPAD is much heavier and is more difficult to fly than the Kadet. That said, there are advantages to plastic, such as durability and low cost.

Don't know about the Kombat 40 trainer or how it flys, but it may work out very well for you. I just got back into the hobby after a 17 year break and am having a blast. I wish you the best.

-Scott

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

What the heck does "just don't fly as well" mean, exactly? Really, I'm curious.

I have flown the Airmadillo, the Aircore, and quite a few Spads, and they all seem to fly fine to me. I started as a newbie with a balsa trainer, and switched to the Aircore after I got tired of fixing the balsa plane every flying session. Believe it or not, as a newbie, the Aircore seemed to fly exactly the same as the balsa plane. The reason, I think, is that beginners are totally focused on different things than more experienced pilots. But I also had many experienced pilots fly the Aircore, and they seemed perfectly happy with it as well.

What it comes down to is wing loading. A plane with a heavier wing loading flies differently than one with a lighter wing loading. Does that mean one flies "better". I don't think so. Many scale models have much higher wing loading than the Aircore, and many electrics and sailplanes have much lower wing loading than a SIG LT40 trainer. Does that mean the LT40 doesn't fly as well? I don't think so. The real question is does the plane meet the needs it was designed for. To that question, I can personally confirm that the indestructible plastic trainers do exactly what they were designed to do: Train new flyers who don't want to spend a lot of time repairing their trainers.

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

Mike-

You've probably phrased it a lot better than I did. The various plastic planes generally have a higher wing loading than a comparable balsa trainer. You're right, different planes just fly "different." I am not in any way intending to bash durable, plastic planes. As I mentioned, I have one myself. I will say it is a lot less forgiving than my balsa trainer. It is also a little more difficult to trim out. On the other hand, it flies a lot better in the wind because of the heavier weight.

-Scott

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

It is more than just a wing loading issue. Plastic is a perefectly good construction material, but not all plastic planes fly well. The drainpipe SPADS are generally poor fliers compared to more conventional designs, because they are heavy & very flexible. The afformentioned Debonair is a good example of what not to fly as a beginner -- too much flex that affects trim -- & the trim changes in flight at different speeds. I build & fly SPADS, but I would not recommend one to a novice. The SPADNUTS (including me) love them, but that doesn't make them fly any better --- get a conventional design -- it can be either balsa or plastic.

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

Not to start the Spad bashing thread, but I have a lot of problems with this "generally poor fliers" tag. I've had my entire club watch in amazement as one of the best fliers in our club had a ball with my DPS. There has got to be something I'm missing here. What does it mean to be a "poor flier"? The thing takes off, tracks fine, and does everything I want it to do. I'm not saying it flies the same as a profile plane, or a 3D fun fly. I'm not saying an expert flyer wouldn't choose a different plane. But we're talking about a beginner here, and I maintain a beginner will not learn any quicker on a balsa plane than an indestructible, and in fact, if you told him his plane "didn't fly well" would have no idea what you were talking about. Experienced pilots forget that beginners LIKE heavy, sluggish planes because they are less affected by wind, and harder to over control.

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

Guys, this is a thread about a guy trying to get back into the hobby, not another SPAD thread, can we get back on topic?

Thanks,
Dennis-

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

Actually we are on topic -- He wants opinions on what to get, or what not to get. In my opinion drainpipe SPADS are not a good idea for a beginner. The fact that an expert pilot can do amazing things with a drainpipe SPAD is a tribute to the pilot, not the SPAD. The model is a demonstration that virtually anything can fly, given enough power & a skilled pilot. I fly them myself, & they are tough, but they certainly don't fly as well, or as easily as a good stiff conventional airframe.

I am also a very experienced flight instructor who has taught many pilots to fly, and it is my observation that the ones with drainpipe SPADS are generally slower to progress -- because they are fighting a deficient airplane as well as their own limited skills. The only real advantage of the drainpipe models is that the pilots are generally less upset about digging a hole with them.

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

I am partly responsible for getting it off track. The original post was about the Kombat 40 trainer, which I believed to be similar to Duraplanes, which are similar to SPADs. Hence the slippery slope. I looked at a Kombat 40 ad last night and they are not really that similar to a Duraplane or a SPAD. Notably they advertise a weight of 5.5 pounds, so they should have a relatively light wing loading.

I still haven't seen any opinions on the Kombat 40. Anyone?

-Scott

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

Gliders and Sig LT40 generally make good trainers due to there lighter wing loadings. While it is true that heavier wing loading flying "differently" may not equate to "better", I would not recommend a scale model with high wing loading [or even a light plane such as a CAP] as a trainer , just as I would not recommend the heavier plastic type planes.

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

Guys,
I get the gist of what you are saying...I'm going to avoid the plastic types since it appears not all of my flying skills have eroded.

Thanks again for all the advise.

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

Whether you are trying to teach yourself or are working on practicing what
your instructor taught you, situations do arise that can cost you your plane.
Here is a device that might help you through those early flights and might
help your plane make it to old age, the FMA Co-Pilot.

New it costs about $100. That's about the price of a smashed starter plane.
This should help a new flyer get through those early flights with minimal
damage. You just let go of the sticks and the co-pilot brings the plane to
level flight in 1 second.

Backyard Flyer Product review
http://www.backyardflyer.com/BY/articles/co_pilot.asp
Product Review
http://www.fmadirect.com/support_docs/item_1040.pdf
Product Description
https://www.fmadirect.com/site/Detai...489&section=20


FMA Co-Pilot Flight stabilization system - $99
https://www.fmadirect.com/site/Detai...489&section=20
Co-Pilot with receiver $180 - may have extra features - not sure
https://www.fmadirect.com/site/Detai...722&section=29

Available with 5 or 8 channel 72 MHZ receiver, or requires 72 MHz radio
system. Won't work with 27 MHZ equipment.
Also available on 35, 36, 50 and 53 mhz.

If you are starting on a plane with a supported radio system, this might be a
good investment.

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

I quit flying back in 1983. I got back into it this year, July 2004. I made the totally dumb mystake of starting back into it with a Challenger and an Xtreem. They ruined me for landing. They land too slow. I can fly great with my gas jobs but landing can be hell although I'm doing much better. Plus for what I paid for the electrics I coulda got a complete gas job combo like the Duraplanes. Now I have two Duraplanes and an Airmadillo. I love both styles of planes and I'd recommend them to anyone getting started into the hobby or restarting.

Also, Since I've been flying again, I've seen a lot of those wood arf trainers that end up as kindling after the first couple flights. I flew one of my Duraplanes into a cable spool at full speed with NO damage. The prop broke, the rubber bands snapped and the spinner was crushed. Nothing more. The hardwood cable cady has a big dent in it where one of the slats broke. I was flying again in 15 minutes. You can't do that with a wood plane.

http://www.airmadillo40.com a new site just for Airmadillo flyers. There's only two people on it as of 10.19.04 and we're looking for more.

Tim

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

Oh, and I have a Kombat 40. It's the Airmadillo 60 Trainer and I just ordered another. When these guys say indistructable, they mean it. I have a Tower 75 on mine that I've had problems with, the engine will just stop on takeoff or flight. (It's fixed now.) The plane took MANY hard crashes into the ground before I got the problem resolved. No damage. The worst thing that has happened to it was a stall after an engine shutdown at 200 feet. The plane hit the ground hard and bent the fuselage frame behind the engine and warped the rest of the frame. A few swings of the hammer and it was fixed.

I like the Airmadillos so much I started a website message board for them. http://www.airmadillo40.com

Oh, I had one other bad crash. The elevator rod clevis broke on takeoff and I slammed it into a dirt bank at full speed. Killed my poor Ninja Pilot, no damage to the plane.

Tim

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

SkyBob,

I would not discount building a spad. I started out flying a Dominator as a first plane. With a lot of trainer time on FMS and a couple flights on a buddy boxes i was on my own. I'm not real sure that I agree with some of the opinion of SPAD's but being around the sport for few years, i've seen a lot of trainer planes....duraplanes and other "industructable planes" and they just don't measure up to building your own SPAD. Balsa trainers are good but lack the durability of plastic. I think it is foolish & dangerous to try to fly with out an instructor or someone on a buddy box to help you the first few flights. I think it is even more foolish to spend big money on a trainer that probably won't survive your first attempts if you don't have an instructor. I've never built a Deb but I am sure that I could build one that would weigh in at 5.5 to 6 pounds which would bring the wing loading in at under 16 oz. most balsa trainer would fair no better(my brother has an Eagle II, pretty sure it weighs around 5 to 6 pounds). The Kombat 40 has a wingloading of about 18 oz sqft., with the 60inch trainer wing, and is basicly the same as the Buhor or the Hor SPAD planes. I can build a Buhor for about 15 to 20 bucks (actually I use election signs so probably more like 5 bucks) and take the money that I would have spent for a 100+ dollar trainer for a engine and some extra servo for another plane. If I crash my spad i'm only out a few bucks. That's why I like spads.

[link]http://spadtothebone.com/freeplans.htm[/link]

Glad to see you getting back into the sport and good luck.

Happy Flying!!!
Long Live SPAD!!!!

Steve

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

And if he takes your advice and something really bad happens like losing control and hitting somebody, what's the consequence to you for giving this advice? It's his fault for listening to you, right? If you're going to give somebody dangerous advice, you should be prepared to take responsibility for the consequences, but I somehow doubt that you're willing to step up when that happens. :eek:

Anyway, most folks that I know, including myself, who got out of the hobby for long periods didn't have trouble coming back in. As DB Cherry said, just get somebody to help you out until you're confident you can fly solo. You'll probably pick it up right away, but still better to be safe than sorry.

RE: Beginner recommendations
 

I have met so many people that bought the radio, bought the plane kit, spent months building and now won't fly it because they could not bear the loss of all that time and effort if it crashed. The goal shifted from flying to finishing the model. So the r$1000 spent on teh radio, engine, and "stuff" plus the 50-100 hours they spent building the planes all go on the shelf, so that the plane is not put at risk. Some of these people then go out and buy an RTF electric because if that crashes, hey, there was no time invested. Buy a new wing and put it back in the air.

To those of us who feel that a crash is a lesson learned the hard way, you move on. The plane is a vehicle to flight, not the object of our ultimate affection. But to people who see it as a total personal loss, it is too much to bare. For them ARFs and RTFs are great. They certainly don't want to crash them, but if they do, there is a lot less personal investment so they might actually bring them to the field and try to fly them with the help of an instructor. If it breaks, you buy a replacement part, fix it and try again.

That is how I feel about fixing. It is the price I pay for making a mistake. Fix it and try again! Do better and you won't have to fiX!