Why pull back to go up?
 

I've flown a little power but stick mostly to gliders. I've been flying off and on for a few years and am just starting to find my "groove" and get really comfortable at the sticks. I have one question that nobody has yet been able to answer to my satisfaction and that is : why do we pull back to go up?

The answers I have gotten have mostly been that if "feels more natural" or "that's how the full scale guys do it." I agree about the feel and know the full scale guys do it like this but why? Another answer I got was that you are pushing the stick in the direction the tail needs to go. If that were true wouldn't we push the stick to the left to go right?

I was trying to teach a friend to fly on Real-flight and she asked me about the pull back; go up thing and the only thing I could come up with (besides the above answers) was that the idea, kinda, is to keep the stick perpendicular to the floor of the cockpit (as if you were sitting in it). This would also explain how ailerons function, basically. But that doesn't explain why, but rather gives a way to visualize the way it works. Kinda.

Can any or you knowledgeable souls out there in the ether help clarify this for me? :D

worm

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

It seems right to me.. Pull to go up... If you pull on the reins of a horse
it will lift it's head and stop.... :-) Guess the plane will do the same.. The
plane will point up and with "not enough throttle" it will also stop...:-)
Yeah... It makes sence.....

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

It's simple. When you're in a panic situation with the plane diving for the ground (real plane or RC), and someone yells "pull up. pull up!", do you really want to have to stop and think, "let's see, to pull up I have to push the stick". :D

Or you could think about it this way; you're in the cockpit of a plane and it's heading for the ground in a screaming dive, you're in a state of panic and in fear for your life.... Is your natural reaction going to be, lean forward towards the ground, or lean back away from it? And how would you have the best chance of fighting the sticks to level the plane; pushing forward with your arms, or planting your feet firmly against the instrument panel, grasping the yoke with both hands and pushing with your legs to get elevator control. [:@]

I'm joking, but it makes sense to me.
Dennis-

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

I've heard stories from my Uncle Kenny, who flew C-47's in WWII. He said that putting one's feet on the dashboard and pulling with your legs and back were perfectly acceptable, and sometimes necessary if the plane was loaded tail heavy and they ran out of trim. Try that in a 757.....

Otherwise, I suppose pulling back to go up is just The Way It's Done. You can set your radio up any way you want, if it feels natural to you and works for you, then whatever. You'll just have to get used to maidening your own planes, and will have trouble if you want to buddy box someone. But if it works for you, then go for it.

Andy

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

It's "just the way it's done". The first aircraft were set up that way, it worked, so nobody "fixed" it. Think about it. though. Would it feel more natural to push the stick forward to go up? You have to sort of lean forward if you were to push it to the limit of its travel (full size a/c), which is the opposite reaction that centrifugal force is going to apply, same with the converse, pulling the stick back to dive. Actually, regardless of the direction you take, the stick motion sort of "positions" you for the inertial or centrifugal reaction of the plane. Maybe Wilbur or Orville tried it the other ways and puked or something, said "Nah, let's try something else,this way don't work too good", and what we have now is what we have now.

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

If you want to try it the other way just fly inverted.

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

When the plane is in an upright attitude you pull up the nose to go up and push the nose down to go down. Try flying around inverted for awhile and you'll most likely see how much more natural it feels on the transmitter to pull instead of push to go up.

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

To see how it REALLY feels natural to pull for climb, push for dive, do it in a full size plane. Transmitter sticks are just set up the same way full size a/c controls are. You gotta feel it in the seat of your pants to fully understand why.

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

Thats just the way it it is

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

Say the stick suddenly broke off in flight with you sitting in the cockpit holding it, and you went into a dive - what would you do? - lean forward?, ( yeah right! :)).

If I saw my model heading straight into the ground, I don't think I could make myself push the stick forward. ;)

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

Wow. I almost bought this. Unfortunately the controls were established before even moterate climbs or dives were.

I'm sure if you reversed the control for elevator and taught somebody that had no clue it would be no different for them. Anybody have a young child to sacrafice?

That's when the suction factor kicks in.

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

I've alway thought of it like this, If you put a stick on the top of the plane what way would it move if you pull back, It would pitch up and forward would pitch down, I may be wrong as to why it is like that but this reason made the most sence to me.

Dauntae

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

First, the reason it is the way it is on a Tx is because that's how it is in a Full Scale plane.

Now, why is it that way in a full scale plane?

If that's how they did it from the get-go, it's either because they got lucky, or they knew exactly what they were doing.

The stick moves in the opposite direction as the momentum or "G" force.

Example: You pull the stick back, your body goes forward. Push the stick forward, your body goes back. By the same token, if you push the stick to the right, G forces push your body to the left and vice versa.

Can you imagine what would happen if you pulled the stick back to go down, and the G force became so strong that you couldn't fight them enough to push the stick forward again?

Botton line: It's better to fight the G force going INTO the maneuver than to have to fight it to get out.

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

beacause that was the easyest way to engineer using the elevator in the full size aircraft, so i guess models followed the same path.
but thats just my opinion.

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

I have also heard the it had to do with controlling the first manned gliders. If you wanted to go up you slide your body back to change the CG aft and the tail sank, want to go down slide forward and the tail got lighter and lifted, so when they set up the first hand controls they followed the same motions. Look at how a hang glider pilot controls their aircraft, just like the first glider pilots did. [8D]

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

Huh?

Suggest you go fly something (full size) with a stick (a glider will do), and if you don't immediately get your "why" question unequivocally 'answered' - give up asking the question as you'll never comprehend the answer.[sm=rolleyes.gif]

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

Wormburner,

Actually, I can provide an explanation based on the history of flight. My great-great grandfather, A. Lee Reon, was involved with the early development of powered flight in this country. He actually worked closely with the Wright Brothers as they developed the more advanced planes that followed the Wright Flyer. The Wrights (and others) soon discovered that the “wing warping” and center of gravity methods used to control the Wright Flyer were woefully inadequate.

One of the first adaptations was the development of an elevator for controlling the pitch of the aircraft. (An interesting side note is how they became to be known as “elevators”, but that involves my great-great uncle Otis.) The Wright Brothers’ first elevators were hinged horizontally and had a vertical control horn much like the elevators we have on our R/C planes of today. Now the Wrights’ original elevator had the control horn pointing down and if you think about the mechanics of this arrangement, if the elevator moved down, the control horn moved forward causing the aircraft nose to pitch down. A simple rod connected the control horn to the bottom of the pilot’s stick and since the stick had to rotate on an axle to gain leverage, when the stick was pulled back, the control horn moved forward, the elevator moved down and the plane’s nose pitched down. This arrangement worked fine and on take-off roll when Wilbur reached proper rotation speed, Orville would shout “Push Down! Push Down!”

This configuration would have probably survived except for the historical context that early flight was developing faster than earth-moving and paving technology, and hence the airfields were usually very rough. The Wrights struggled with the development of a tail wheel apparatus that would withstand the frequent rough landings but they had great difficulties and the failure of the tail wheel or skid often meant that the down pointing elevator control horn would hit the ground, ripping the entire elevator assembly out of the plane.

Enter Grandpa Reon. Observing one of these particularly violent landings and seeing the tail destroyed from the elevator control horn digging into the earth, he had the idea of putting the control horn on top of the tail, and thus reversing the motion of the control stick. And as they say, the rest is history.

<><><><><><&gt ;

You see wormburner, this is the kind of explantation you need to give to your female friend when she asks you a question such as "Why do you pull the stick back to go up?". Answers such as "That's the way it is." do not satisfy the female curiosity and she will see you as some kind of an idiot.

rcjon

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

I reckon a similar logic applies to light switches etc.

In the States, a switch is pushed up to put the light on and in the UK the switch is down to switch on. I reckon the down-on is more natural as it's like turning the switch in the same way as the joy stick in a plane. That is towards you.

But then, coming from the East side of the Atlantic, I have a British bias!

;)

-David C.

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

Not only do they push the switch up for on, - they also drive on the wrong side of the road!! :eek: ;).

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

At least they all do! It's less noisy that way!

:D

-David C.

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

BECAUSE-- if you push forward, you will go down!

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

This makes interesting reading, as an aside when I am playing computer games such as Battlefield 1942 and other first person shoot-em's I have to invert the mouse so the if I push forward on the mouse I look down and pull back looks upward. I find this more natural than my non-flying friends who have it the other way round.

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

Yeah,,right, if the stick broke off and I went into a dive (I assume you were talking about a real plane), I probably WOULD lean forward, to be in a better position to kiss my butt goodbye. That's really why they tell you to lean forward and put your head between your knees (crash position) on airlines.

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

one thing needs some correction. the first aircraft were NOT set up this way. the wright's flyer had a cradle for wing warping as well as a stick. early planes were very much a product of the designer and a variety of systems were used . the French I think came up wuth a more or less standard set up seen on full size planes . there were other secondary control differences as well(ie brakes, flaps)

RE: Why pull back to go up?
 

some things need correction. the first aircraft were NOT set up this way. the wright's flyer had a craddle for wing warping as well as a stick. early planes were very much a product of the designer and a variety of systems were used . the French I think came up with a more or less standard set up seen on full size planes . there were other secondary control differences as well(ie brakes, flaps) also the wright flyer DID use elevators(two in fact) in the canard configuration, not weight shifting. the wrights already knew from Octave Chanute this method was inadaquate. Ailerons are generally credited to Glen Curtiss.