RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

I agree with all the points made and that I think is my problem.

I went by my future club this weekend and hung out for a while. I spoke with some really nice guys. Eventually, they asked where I bought my stuff and I told them. One laughed and told me to grab a pen and write down "towerhobbies.com". The general opinion was that, while the LHS owner is a nice guy, his prices are way out of line. Also, I've gone in there a few times now and asked for help. While the guys in there try to help, its obvious they are not plane folks, and don't *really* know.

I think this decision is a very localized one. That is, it really depends on who your LHS is. In my case, I've got one true store that is owned by a family (others are franchises, or front ends for internet sites), and unfortunately, they aren't a plane family. As a result, my dollars are bound to land at the IHS (internet hobby stores).

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

Actually they can be much cheaper. As with anything an informed buyer usually gets a better price regardless of the store type

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

Well I just ordered all my stuff online from Tower Hobbies, They had unreal deals. I got a $20.00 gift certificate for the radio I bought and a $20.00 GC for the plane I bought which both were the exact things I wanted. I also got $40.00 off for the amount of money I spent. I went to the local hobby shop and the same radio I bought online was $20.00 more then what I paid online.
I saved over $100.00 buying it online the buying it all in the Hobby Shop. I am sure I will still buy small stuff in the hobby shop, but buget shopping is making me lean toward shoping online.
____________________________
Flyn' High, Real High

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

Stonedeaf,

Buying on line as opposed to not buying at the LHS is not a sin as some here would have you think.:D Most of a budget conscious and $100 difference in price is not an insignificant amount of money.

If you really want to support the LHS go ask them if they match competitors prices.;) I personally get a little annoyed when any retailer drops the price 10%-20% if a customer can show them a competitors ad, but other people don't have a problem with this practice.[X(]

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

The owner said they were higher then online companies because they have to pay for freight and inventory costs.
I asked him why he was higher. I do not mind buying online at all. It would be not be smart not to buy online with the deals I got.
But anyways
__________________
Flyn' High, Real High

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

Maybe thats true but I found a hobby shop that grabs the latest tower ad from the Magazines off the rack and quotes those prices to his customers. Seems that some shops have no problem staying in business selling at exactly the same price pionts as Tower...go figure;)

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

Check other types of retail and you will find that many will match prices. HH Gregg with match any price for the same item. It's not just in the RC business. I wil match any price if I can. If I can't you can use my phone to place your order. I have a work shop in the back where i build, anyone can come and watch or help. New people can bring their plane for help. . Try and get to know the store owner if you can. I give credit at times to my regulator customers. I have 30 layaway without interest. I buy and sell used equipment. Ther is a place for both kinds of busineses in this hobby it is your choice. Each has it's positive and negitive. Dennis

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

I used to work in a hobby store. We tried to give fair deals to everyone, and were highly successful. The store was then sold, and the new owner was more concerned with profit than customers. Not only did the price go up, but we were told to "upsell" at every opportunity (you buy CA, we try and sell you accelorator / microbaloons / more CA tubes, etc. at the same time). I couldn't do it, so I quit. Shop has since gone out of business.

Lesson : Treat the customer FAIRLY and they will come back, try to rip them off, or sell them stuff they don't need - bye bye!

I try to support my LHS, but they are not knowledgeable (barely friendly) and higher price. I buy small stuff there, but generally go internet for the larger purchases. Why? I am on a budget and need to make the most of my money. If they had a better attitude I may pay a bit more just "because", but in my situation I go online.

I think both have their place and a well run, friendly, welcoming LHS is a true treasure. Wish I had one !:(

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

Only you can determine how much more you are willing to pay. And the only way you can try it is to talk to the hobby guy. Like Minnflyer said, tell him that you can get it cheaper elsewhere. I wouldn't mention how much cheaper but that 25% would be a good starting point. If he lowers his price to where you feel it is acceptable (and seems friendly enough) buy from him. Do remember that you can get the product right away and you don't have to pay for shipping.

If he can't give you a reasonable discount then walk out the door if you feel that shopping with him at his store isn't worth it. You need to support the local economy, yes... but you don't need to support someone who is so stubborn that he feels that he can charge substantially more than the market. He is ultimately doomed if he can't find a way to keep business. The earlier he knows he needs to change, the better it is for him...

On the other hand, if you keep walking in that store to check out what's new and you enjoy the time you spend there despite not purchasing anything. You have to wonder how much that experience is worth to you.

I always go to a specific LHS because the people are friendly and the products are good. They are about 5-10% more expensive that other places and I already get a 10% discount. But to me, the value of the shopping experience makes up for the difference. In fact, unless they are significantly more expensive, or that they don't carry the item I'm looking fore, I always shop with them. I'd rather give a buck to someone I liked than a quarter to one I didn't.

I just bought a Y.S. Dingo yesterday!!! You guessed it... from the LHS of my choice.

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

Bargaining in Taiwan, and the rest of Asia, is much more common and accepted than in the US and other places. In the US we are conditioned to NOT bargain with a store owner. Most of them have a "take it or leave it" attitude. If you tell them you can get it 25% cheaper somewhere else they will tell you to go buy it "somewhere else."

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

I can barely afford this hobby and without discount online stores I couldn't do most of what I do. That being said, I buy the larger items online (engines and radios) and the smaller stuff at the local hobby shop.

I want the LHS there when I need something right now. I also don't discuss what I buy where with the staff. I think that's rude. If they ask, then fine, but if not, I don't go into it.

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

Funny thing is if its a decent LHS with Knowledgable staff they will have a pretty good idea of what you're into (and purchase other places) by what you do and DON'T buy there.;)

A good store might for instance inquire why you're buying 5 20" inch props but not the engine for instance. Then again most of the LHS's that I consider "good" have prices in line with online stores;)

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

I keep up with what people are buying on-line in my area because i need to know what is hot at that time. When i see them with a new item not from my store i say " great" . I have no right to question where they spend their money. I did have a regular customer that only bought small stuff from me, but whrn a new plane would come in he would spend a lot time looking thu it. Then a month later i would see him at the field with the same plane from mail-order. Since i price with-in mail order I knew it was't the price. One day when he was in and it was quite I ask him why. He told me he did'nt want to pay sales tax. Being as nice as I could i told him he was welcome anytime in the store to look at the box only. Now he buys most of his stuff with me. Dennis

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

We have an old hobby shop here and it has been owned and operated by the same guy for about 40 years. He doesnt fly much anymore but he still loves his hobby. He and I see one another on a regular basis just because I like to visit with him and he has most all of the essential extras a modeler needs. I immediately found myself in a dilemma when I got into the hobby. I am big on supporting local businesses, especially mom and pop businesses but as has been beaten to death here, he is about 20% higher. I thought about it for a few days and decided that talking with him was my best bet since I really wanted him to get my money.. I went and we discussed what I would pay online for my 1st plane, engine, radio, servos and misc gear. He looked in his old faithful catalog and explained that he could match the prices for the big stuff but he couldnt afford to on the small stuff. I agreed and he ordered everything he didnt have and didnt charge me a penny for shipping. I buy everything I possibly can from him. I probably overpay for balsa, glue, props and all the nic naks I can get off the wall but the extra cash adds up to about $50 a year over what I would pay online and I get to visit with my friend at least 1 time a week. He understands that I would be foolish to buy from him, and I realize that since he buys at a lower volume it costs him a little more to provide the same items. So we meet in the middle whenever we can and we are both happy..

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

It's funny...

I like to support the local guys... Specially when you want fuel or props etc in a hurry...

BUT... I can buy a large kit or engine from Tower and import it into New Zealand vie airmail cheaper than I can buy it retail in New Zealand... And I do, not because I'm mean, but because I have $x.xx to spend on the hobby, and so have to go for the option I can afford...

I guess at the end of the day, no matter how nice the local store is, economics will make the decision for most people?

Interesting post though... And I can see it from both sides as my current employer (sole trader) is being killed by big retail operations...

Matt

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

There is also the fact that a big mailorder company has so much stuff to chose from!
If I walk in to any of the local hobbyshops in my small city they are all part hobbyshop - part something-else shop.
There are a few planes, a few boats and a few cars, some glue, props, wheels and extras but nothing compared to one of the large American hobby shopps with isle after isle of equipment.

If I need something, the LHS will most likely order it from Tower, put extra $$ on it and sell it to me.

The prices here in Scandinavia are pretty high and now with the low US dollar, it's "cheap" for us to shop from the states.
Of course I'd like to support my LHS, but if the selection is small, the prices almost twice compared to mailorder and I have to wait a week for anything that they will order for me, I'll rather buy it for myself and get it delivered to my door.

Figure this:
-Get something from Tower hobbies
-Pay 30% added tax in customs
-$35 P&P,

....Still cheaper than buying local of the shelf and I actually like online shopping.
No stress, sitting at home and putting stuff together, comparing specs and doing searches on RCU if the piece of equipment I'm about to order is any good :)

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

Good for you, I think your action was justified. I can think of nothing worse than going to a local store to sample the goods, perhaps ask a few questions and then buying the exact same item mail order.

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

The important thing was to talk to the man and find out why. Instead of fighting over the issue, I wanted to work with him. After he looked at the shipping against the tax he saw that there was little difference, now I see him every week. I wish more store owners would jump in here and give their side of the story. Understanding goes a long way on both sides of the issue. Dennis

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

Agreed. If I'm going to look thru a kit at my LHS, you can bet that, if I'm going to buy it, its going to be thru them. That right there justifies the additional cost in my mind.
Heh, isn't that the key to just about everything in this world? Communication...

This is a really interesting discussion. I really enjoy reading perspectives from each side. I've also gained a new appreciation for you international folks! How good we Americans have some stuff. 15 minutes of driving and I've got almost anything I could need/want in my hand.

For me, it has come down to this. The few times I've gone in since this discussion, I've bought small stuff, and probed with questions along the way. While they seem to be very helpful, they don't seem to be all that knowledgeable. I know myself pretty well; if someone with some semblance of authority says "Yep, thats a good one!" I'm on my way to the counter to buy it. I just can't do that with this hobby. I need someone who has "been there, done that" to give a rounded opinion. Basically, what you guys offer with your posts here. So, for supplies and last minute needs, my LHS is my source. For more, I think the internet is the place.

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

There is also one other way you might get things cheaper at the LHS, even if they match Tower. Ask if they will give you a better deal with cash instead of a credit or debit card. My lhs gets tacked with another 6% because of card transactions. If you tell them you are paying cash, they will lower the price to recflect not having to pay the credit card company. My lhs is a small mom and pop store that has been in bussiness for about 50 years. I spend a lot time and a LOT of money there. And since I do, they will usually not only give my the cash deal, but can beat tower by several dollars every time. But also some items just dont have much of a markup like OS engines. When you see what Tower prices them at, usually there is not much room to play with the price other than going up and there are a few other products like that too.

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

Piper Chuck - I don't think that is really bargaining. Bargaining is trying to reduce the price so that you get a better deal. Here, you are asking him to reduce his price to get the same deal you would if you go somewhere else. I think anyone in the business would like to know why someone wouldn't buy from them. Any additional piece of information is helpful. Maybe his prices are too high and if enough people reflect that on him, he may reconsider his pricing strategy. He could end up selling much more high value items.

Anyway, I believe that most store owners could differentiate between someone who comes in with a specific model in mind at a specific price and once he cannot get it turns away and someone who could potentially could be a loyal customer but just needs the right conditions. As DadsToysBG says, work with the guy.

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

At some point a store owner will say no. If he has a man that always trys to beat him to death on every deal then he is placed on that memory list of "i don't care" at that point he might as well go the the mail order all the time, he will not not get any help in the LHS. Dennis

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

Forestroke, I would think only the most clueless store owner would not realize that a customer could get a better deal online than at the store. The store has to charge higher prices to pay for labor, taxes, rent, insurance, electricity, etc, etc, etc. If the store provides some added value, such as the points Dennis has listed, then this extra cost is worth it to the customer. If the customer sees no added value then they have no reason to pay this extra cost.

Anyone who walks into the store asking for a price reduction is bargaining. Doesn't matter whether it is to get the store to match someone else's price, or to get the best possible deal, it's still bargaining. Some stores will bargain and some won't. It's up to the owner, and perhaps what they think of the customer.

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

Dennis, your response caused many memories of my time in China to come flooding back. Chinese customers do beat the vendor to death on every deal. The result is pretty much the what you describe. The vendors will work very hard to sell the product, but many of them provide little service on what to do with it.

I wanted to buy some engines while I was in Shanghai last August. The first woman we asked wouldn't even let me look at the engines. Apparently, she couldn't figure out I planned to buy a bunch of them. Things got better when I got the attention of someone who appeared to be a bit higher on the food chain. I did end up beating the price down, because I knew they would cheat the tourist if I didn't. Fortunately for the local vendors here, I pretty much leave these tendencies in China.

RE: Purchasing Etiquette?
 

so our local Mom/PoP hobby shop is 65 miles away, he has been there since day 1 and before me. will EMail offer you a cup of coffee or two, even a lets go to lunch offer,or we will be in your neighborhood sat, will you be home or at the field? also he has it or will get it as quick as H--L--. we have learned to make sure you have at least 2 of everything and don't wait till you run out. SUPPORT the LHS, cause tomorrow he maybe gone. also the old friends we used to depend on to borrow from are gone, it happens every day. dick