Boy do I need help
 

I need some help or a labotomy or something. I soloed at the end of August and do okay with my Avistar but ever since that I haven't been able to progress much further. I've gone from flying the trainer to flying a 4*40 that I built from a kit and don't seem to be getting much better. I just fly around in circles while lots of other people are doing tricks and moving on. The 4* is great but it seems like it's ahead of me. I've been thinking of getting an Ultra stick or a Heckler or something to fill in the gap. Also, I have the G2 system so I practice on that but the sim is one thing and flying is another. Any suggestions? TIA

RE: Boy do I need help
 

Well, this is getting kind of philosophical, but I would say not to worry about comparing your flying skills to others. It will drive you crazy if you worry about it. As long as you are having fun, who cares who flies better than who. There will always be those who fly better, and there will also be those who fly a lot worse!

But, of course, we all want to improve our skills and face new challenges. Why not pick a particular stunt or trick and concentrate on doing that. Say, like flying inverted. Take your plane up way high, roll it over, and try keeping it there. Don't be afraid to ask more experienced guys for advice. Work on that every flight and see if you can fly inverted a little longer and more confidently each time. I'll bet you will improve and have a lot of fun getting better and better. Then move on to a new trick. Good luck!

RE: Boy do I need help
 

CeeGee, I wouldnt worry about it too much I am the same as you. I fly warbirds most of the time and i just love to punch holes in the sky flying round and round in circles and doing low passes. I did try to do a loop on my T-34 mentor and everything went wrong for me (I wish i had brown pants on). i started the loop and got just over half way when the plane snap rolled on me and it started spinning towards the ground. I had a very experienced pilot standing next to me as my spotter and was telling him i had lost it. with maybe 20' to spare i managed to pull out. I guess i never had enough power going through the loop and lost all lift.
paul

RE: Boy do I need help
 

perhaps you're too afraid to loose your precious hand built 4*40?

Get a cheap low wing ARF, like the World Models Mach 2 wich retails fro $69:-.
Slap it together fast with no feelings attached and tell yourself that you can afford to loose it!
Ding it up a bit on purpose and make sloppy repairs with packing tape to further loose any attachments to it.
Now go out and fly the !"%¤%** out of it and try all those manouvers that you know how to do in the sim but chicken out to do on the 4*40

RE: Boy do I need help
 

I agree with test ..... I had that similar felling flying my nexstar,i would say to myself what would happen if i did a trick and crashed this bird $$$$$$$.so i bought an ultra stick 40 ugly as they are i had no feelings towards this plane, parked the nexstar, and i haven't flow it sense.I push it to the limits as often as possible, I bought it 8 months ago and its still in one peace, it worked for me an now i fly the stick all the time along with my extra and edge. 60 size planes ;) ask some one you feel would give you good advice to stand with you and offer a good trick or two to try, in case you have a mishap, you could then hand it over if you don't feel confident, and they could get you out of it... or talk you threw it.

RE: Boy do I need help
 

I'm going to agree with "just going for it", but will offer a bit of detailed advice.

1 - Practice loops. Get good at knowing how big the plane can do them without losing too much airspeed at the top, and keep them round. You want to be able to level out at the bottom at the same altitude you entered.
2 - Practice rolls. More difficult to do, but start with full aileron deflection so you roll as fast as possible. Then try slowing the rolls down. Remeber you'll need to add a little down elevator when the plane is inverted.
3 - Practice inverted. This will help those rolls a LOT, and inverted flying is easier than you might think. Your ailerons still work the same way so turns will be easy. You just need to getr use to holding in a little down elevator the whole time, and adding in a little more down during the turns.

Virtually every aerobatic manuever is a combination of these three things, so once you learn them the sky's the limit. (Sorry, bad pun.) ;)

I would also suggest that you practice using rudder. Every turn you make, add a little rudder too. Just remember, when inverted the rudder is opposite.

Good luck, and have fun.

By the way, you don't have to rush. I spent my first year after soloing just flying around. Sure, a few loops and rolls, but nothing fancy. I didn't start trying real aerobatics until I started getting really bored with flying circles.
Dennis-

RE: Boy do I need help
 

Just my 2c but it seems to me you may have moved on from the Avistar a little too quickly. Yes you soloed but by moving on quickly after that to the 4* you may not have given youself enough time to become truly comfortable with your new skills. By moving to the 4* quickly your now trying to learn to fly a more manouverable plane while at the same time get to a level where you are comfortable pulling the aerobatic manouevers which will make the learning curve longer. Don't be disheartened though, this is not a race! why not spend another month with the Avistar which you are familiar with, learn the basic aerobatic stuff until you're really comfortable then go back to the 4*. That way your fingers will have learned how to do what you want to do, you just need to adjust to the 4*. Save your money on buying another plane, what you have are two excellent planes and with time you will learn to fly both with ease.

RE: Boy do I need help
 

I concur.. We have a lot of newly soloed pilots at my field but none of them can land worth a SH__... Of course they all have 3 planes now but they forgot about practicing the basics.. I watch them and their hands shake when they fly.. Don't worry about anyone elses skills but your own.. Don't fall in love with a plane unless you can afford to replace it.. haha I have found that I have to push myself to try new maneuvers and I have beeen flying for years.. If you are comfortable with the 4 star then let her rip.. Just be safe and practical.. If you are not having fun then you need to change your flying style or aircraft....

RE: Boy do I need help
 

I'll toss another thought in....

If you just soloed this past August...I would go back and fly the trainer.... fly it until the wings fall off...

I have seen VERY impressive flying with a trainer (not by me, but by an instructor)

Spend more time with the trainer... can you do all the tricks you want with your trainer??

IMHO the trusty trainer needs for attention....

Just my .02

RE: Boy do I need help
 

Here's my thoughts on it. Find yourself a compentant pilot or instructor that's good. Hook up to a buddy box and keep it hooked up. Have this guy with you while you try all your newly acquired simulator skills. You get into trouble, he brings you out. The main point here is you don't have to worry if you get into trouble. In fact, most of the trouble you get into to will be an invaluable learning experience. With someone on the other end that can relieve your worries, you'll be able to see the results of "improper" and "proper" stick movements. You wouldn't believe how much your skills improve if you've got a seasoned aerobatic pilot on the buddy box. He can show you how it's supposed to be done and then let you try. Over and over. I've seen way too many people get into trouble once, and their flying day is over. They're just frazzled. It's way better to take off thinking "what kind of trouble can I get into this time, but having fun" vs the Oh, God, what have I gotten myself into kind of feeling. When you can do everything you want to do without any input from the guy on the buddy box, cut the cord.

You can't ever go wrong with the sim. Spend hours on it. Spend days on it. It's not exactly the same but the stick movements are. When you get to the field with a real airplane, a slight timing change or the input amount changes, but the stick directions are pretty much right on.

Good Luck.

John

RE: Boy do I need help
 

OK, let me tell you my little story.
Back in 2000, I saw Tim Indy do his infamous slow roll. One roll, straight as a arrow, twice the length of the run way with no pitching up or down! It is now 2004 and I can do it with some pitching, but fairly straight in both directions, rolling left or right.

Now, this summer I saw him do a rolling circle to the outside for half the circle and inside for the other half. He did this perfectly timed, without any change in pitch or roll rate. I plan to be able to do this by 2008 :D

RE: Boy do I need help
 

I think everything that has been said is good, but I particularly agree with going back to your trainer. I started flying again this year after a long layoff and I have spent the whole summer learning to do everything possible with the trainer. I bought a well-used Kadet Mk II that has been beat up, so I'm not really afraid of crashing. Funny thing is, I've only had one minor crash.

Like Dennis said, start with loops. Anyone can do them, but they are fun and build confidence. Then rolls. They are a little trickier, particularly with a flat bottom airfoil. Then you start realizing you can do half a loop and then half a roll when you're at the top and you're turned back around the other direction. You don't realize it, but now you've done an Immelman (at least I think that's an Immelman, I may be wrong). Then start trying to do half a roll and see how long you can hold the plane inverted using down elevator. When you lose control inverted, just roll back over to normal flight.

By this point, you will have done three important things: 1) You will be completely familiar with your plane's orientation (i.e., when the plane is coming at you you will know to move the stick left to roll right) 3) controls will seem like second nature to you (you don't have to think "OK, I'm going to turn left, so I need to give a little left aileron and a little up elevator." You just do it) and 3) You will develop the confidence that you can recover your plane from almost any situation (as long as you're not too close to the ground)

Once you get to this point, you will be itching to start flying the 4*, because you realize that all the things you do with your trainer can be done so much easier and better with the 4* and you are no longer worried about crashing it.

I see know point in getting another plane between the trainer and the 4*. Just get everything you can out of your trainer. Have fun!

-Scott

RE: Boy do I need help
 

And yet another vote for returning to the Avistar -- It can do every single thing that the 4* can do & it is more familiar to you. When you can do everthing in the book with the Avistar, then move on to the 4* -- I would bet $ that the 4* will feel easy at that point -- so much so that you will probably move on again shortly after.

The Avistar is an aerobatic trainer -- use it to its full capacity -- which at the moment, is way beyond your current skills.

RE: Boy do I need help
 

Reinforcement of some of the comments already made.

Determine which things you are still weak on and make those part of your routine. As a beginner, flying the landing pattern and doing touch and go's should be part of that routine. Be sure to land from both directions. I occasionally encounter a person who is so uncomfortable landing from one direction or the other that they actually choose to land with the wind rather than have to make an uncomfortable final approach. Force yourself to practice things you are uncomfortable with until they become second nature. Many people think loops and recovering from stalls and spins should be part of the basic instructions for beginners.

Determine what it is you want to do. There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking your plane up in the air and flying around in circles, if that's what you enjoy. When the field is busy, that's a major part of my flights because I don't want to tie up the space over the runway, and I want to keep my plane away from planes that may not be under full control by their pilots. I save my practice/skill building sessions for times when the airspace is quiet.

Try to understand why you are nervous doing things with your 4*. If it's just because it's your new baby and you don't want to crash it then time, and building more confidence, will help you get over it. If it's because you keep doing things that lead to a near crash then you might want to spend more time flying your trainer. As has been mentioned, your trainer is capable of quite a bit, go ahead and push it. It's natural that the 4* takes more work on your part to fly than a trainer. This is part of moving to more advanced planes.

If you think you want to compete in aerobatics, or just want to do them for fun, look up the requirements and start learning the different maneuvers. See if someone in the club who already competes would be willing to take you under his wing :) to get you started with each one. This person will help you understand how to make the maneuver, and can correct any mistakes you make before they become bad habits. When I learned, I was fortunate enough to have two instructors, one of whom competed in Masters pattern. I learned quite a bit about airplane setup and smooth flying.

I don't think being buddy boxed is a requirement, but that's just my opinion. An important part of learning to fly is to develop the self confidence that you can get yourself out of any situation you get yourself into. One important aspect to this is when you are first learning new things, do them while the plane is 2 to 3 mistakes high. The point to flying something like a trainer or 4* for the first few planes is that they will not get into any situation that is hard to get out of, as long as you've started with a reasonable amount of recovery room, and have learned the basics such as loops and stall/spin recovery. I think being buddy boxed can delay developing self confidence. However, others find it very helpful because they are afraid to try new things for fear of crashing. Decide for yourself which way you think will work best for you.

RE: Boy do I need help
 

CeeGee,

The 4 star is a great flying plane but it is a big jump from a trainer. Like the other guys have said, get some more stick time on the trainer.

When I first started flying, I would go to the field on the weekend and do nothing but touch and go's. It's all about pratice...pratice...pratice.

Now go burn some fuel!

RE: Boy do I need help
 

I was the same as well. Went from my Arrow to a H9 Twist. The Twist scared me!!!! Then, I just said "hell with it, I'm flying this mother"!!!! And I don't care if I dork it or not. I find it more challenging landing at our field in a cross wind than any aerobatic maneuver.
Because our field is rather small without much space for screwups. It makes and forces you to land without overshooting or coming in at an angle etc. I've only been flying gas since this July but electrics for 3 years. I can do all the basic manuevers plus, my favorite is
taking the Twist full throttle straight up and giving it full aileron that looks like a corkscrew and then, lower throttle into a stall turn.
The twist is a nice plane in that if your high enough and screw up, it doesn't go nuts like some other planes in that you have time to recover. Hay, I know all about that!!!

Dave...

RE: Boy do I need help
 

I've been flying for almost 30 years and even though people tell me I'm a good pilot, I know that all I do is bore holes in the sky. I never had the discipline to learn how to fly precisely.

What I do well is fly a model on the wing. For example, I think I'm very good at *flying* light aircraft to their full potential. Other than that, I can fly a plane around the field and stay out of trouble or recover from trouble and usually get it down in one piece.

But if you see me fly next to somebody who is actually a good pilot, especially at aerobatics, you would see that I'm not as good as the people me tell me I am.

My point is that it's in your hands. I like the first response to your post. If you really want to become a real pilot then you have to learn the basics and not try to progress too fast. There are a lot of pilots who can yank their planes around the sky and do all the maneuvers, but they're really ugly to look at. They never learned how to properly *fly* a model aircraft.

So I suggest the same thing. Stick to basics and get it down. That's actually the hardest part. Then learn maneuvers one at a time. The best aerobatic pilots spend hours, days, weeks and months practicing a single maneuver. Something as simple as a loop isn't really that simple if you want to do it perfectly.

Anyone can pull back the elevator and hold it, but learning to do heading corrections, keep the loop round, maintain constant speed, and all the rest require descipline to practice.

RE: Boy do I need help
 

Thanks y'all for the really good advice!! I do need to get back to my trainer and maybe even fly the 4* with the trainer cord. I'm not sure if my instructor will be excited about that but who knows. Sounds like a good idea. He flew my 4* early on and was just having a ball with it. I ended up building and flying the 4* much sooner than expected to begin with. I was going to build the 4* as a winter project. Well the weather turned bad for a while so I started building on it and next thing I know I was so engrossed in it I couldn't stop. Must be a 12 step program for that. It's gotta be the CA fumes. It's not my fault. Anyway, I got it done and the weather turned nice again and the day I planned to maiden it my neighbor crashed my Avistar so I was committed. Well, at least untill I fixed the Avistar. I'll get back to flying the trainer and pratice up. Thanks again. :D

RE: Boy do I need help
 

I like the fact that you recovered the fuse and control surfaces on your 4* ARF, looks great!

I think going back to the trainer for awhile is a good idea too. It can really do most of the aerobatics that the 4* can, maybe not as smoothly, but it will do them.

Just pick one manuever for each flight, like loops, and do them over and over. You don't have to do continuous loops, but one on each circuit. Give yourself time to set each one up, then try to do it as precisely as possible. Do the same thing with rolls.

Practice that rudder too!

Have fun,
Dennis-

RE: Boy do I need help
 

Thanks Dennis. Yea, I do need to do some more practicing with the trainer. Now that the winter is here it's probably going to be that way anyway. Not much light in the evenings now so there won't be much chance to practice untill spring.
My 4* is a kit not an ARF. Rob

RE: Boy do I need help
 

Personally, I've got much more respect for people who can fly their planes in a smooth, consistant, and realistic manner, and "on the wing", than those whose climb out is at a 60+ degree angle, do 10 rolls/second, and all sorts of other things that look nothing like full size planes. I guess they enjoy their extreme flying, but it's just not something I can get worked up about. Especially when they insist on doing it over the middle of the runway while 3 or 4 other people are in the air. I had one of them do this kind of stuff to me a couple weeks ago even after I had called "LANDING" very loud.