Looking For good Trainer
 

Hello Guys,
I have been reading this forum for a few months I just made my membership profile. I am looking for a trainer. I have been told by several people the best way to go is the FireBird Outlaw electric trainer.

I have never flown befre, I know how R/C works though, I have been into R/C cars for a while (if that even means anything for planes)

If you could point me in the right direction, I want to do my diligence and research some mroe before I jump into a new exciting hobby, This hobby will be for me and my dad. We want to eventually get into building the planes. But at first we need some good trainers. Oh yeah, Would you recomend a Gas or Electric trainer. I don't want anything I will get bored of to quick but at the same time something that will teach me the basic fundementals of flying R/C

Thanks!

Dennis R

edit: I will be more specific as to what im looking for.

- Has Room for upgrdes in the future
- I would like to get into speed / areobotics
- Budget for first plane: $500.00

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

The SIG Kadet II ARF is a very good plane to start with. Also, Tower Hobbies has an ARF trainer that is Guarented as long as you learn with an instructor.

As for the specifics, a "high wing" .40 size plane, with a 4 channel radio and a .46 size glow engine is a great way to begin. Here are my thoughts on my suggestions...

4-channel radio: Ask any pilot at the field, and he will have at least one 4-channel radio. No matter how long you are flying, you will have a need/use for the 4-channel radio.

.46 Glow engine: If you fly off a grass field, the .46 will help pull you through the high grass during the spring season. Stick with the glow planes to begin with...sometimes the electrics don't have the power needed for high grass/high wind flight.

Just a thought.

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

Could you help me out with some of the techincal wording olike .46 glow and .40 size plane.. I'm writing all this stuff downt o reserach but I don't understand all of it

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

Hi Dennis...

The best initial Advice you can be given is to join a club... I did not get into contact with a club until after I had finished my first Airplane, but earlier contact could have saved me a lot of time and worry...

Club members are basically all these RCU members, helpful, friendly, and knowledgeable... They can point you in the right direction first hand and even let you fly club trainers etc before you get your own Airplane...

The best Airplane to buy as stated previously is a .40 High Wing Trainer... (ARF)

This is a Airplane which is forgiving and easy to fly, land etc... Being an ARF (Almost Ready to Fly) it will give you some building experience without keeping you busy for months...

.40 refers to the smallest engine size you would use in that Airplane, but usually a .46 is ideal for a .40 trainer... (As stated)

.40 is the engines capacity... 0.40cc's

There are many sizes but obviously the bigger the number the bigger the engine...

You will also need Servos (Probably 4)... These are the mechanical bits that make the Airplanes control surfaces and throttle work...

And a Radio... Tx (Transmitter) hold in you hand and Rx (Receiver) goes in the Airplane and accepts the signal from the Tx then tells the servos what to do... (4 Channels)

There are many and varied choices for all the equipment but I you should ensure your Airplane has the following controls...

Throttle
Elevator
Rudder
Ailerons


My set-up is as follows...

Carl Goldberg Eagle 2 .40 ARF Trainer
.46 Super Tigre ABC Engine
Futaba SkySport 4 Radio and Servos

[link=http://www.towerhobbies.com]Tower Hobbies[/link] is a great site and if you get one of their catalogues it has a small write up on each part of the gear required...

Hope this helps...

Matt

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

Good advice so far, except .40 refers to .40 cubic inches, not cc's.

All trainers today are pretty reliable, as are the radios. The engines vary, but find a club first. The members will help you with your selection, and you'll want an instructor to help you learn to fly. With an instructor you can almost always learn to fly, and solo without ever crashing. Almost always NOT true if learning on your own.

I'd highly advise staying away from litle 2 channel electrics like the Firebird. If you decide to learn on your own, at least get something like the Aerobird Commander or Challenger. They're 3 channels at least, and will make the future transition to larger, faster, glow powered stuff easier.

Good luck and welcome to RCU.
Dennis-

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

Welcome to the RCU XDennis, You will find alot of the answers you have here. You can do a search and find almost anything. I am new to airplanes too and just getting started . But fist thing is first, join a club so you can meet your instructors and they can answer all your questions too. Also can start you off in the right direction on what radio to buy. See what type of buddy boxes they have. I live in the land of snow( 3 In this am ) so I deceided to buy a kit to build over the winter for my trainer. I would ask myself the question " how serious am I going to get into this addiction?" And buy a radio you can grow into instead of having to buy a new one when you out grow the 4 ch. I would buy at least a 6ch or 7ch radio. Just my 2 cents...But some may say one can never have too many radios. But if you are just going to fly on occasion as you do other Rc stuff too... a 4 ch would be just fine. Again welcome to the rcu.

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

Wow, Thanks for all the answers and tips guys.
I will Be looking for a club locally here to set my foot.

I will follow your advice and Stay away from the 2-channel Planes, I am probally going to look more closly at the Carl Goldber Eagle.

I have several R/C CAR servos sitting around, I should be able to use those right?

I was looking at different types of radios and I see AM and FM. Which ones are better / more reliable, or does it not matter.

Dennis

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

You will need a FM transmitter in the 72 Mhz band. I do not believe am is used for air anymore could be wrong. So the servos from your RC cars would not work since they are in 75 Mhz band. The FCC has designated the following frequencies for use for RC.

72 Mhz for RC Planes Ch 11 to 60
53 Mhz can be used but you need to have an Ham radio license
27 Mhz and 49 Mhz can be use too but you need to have an Amateur Radio Operators License to use those
75 Mhz is used for all surface RC

All the big name radio manufacturers seem to be all equal as far as reliablity. One thing you will see is PPM/PCM/FM, which is all different types of modulation schemes. Hopefully someone can chime in and give you more info on that subject. One thing to do is ask your future club what freqs they have interferance on and what freqs are owned for lack of a better trem. You may have 5 members on ch 50 and none on ch 40. So you would want to buy a channel 40 tx/rx combo so you do not have to share Channels and possibly get more flights in a day.....Tom

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

Your car servos will work just fine. Servos are not frequency or band specific in any way. Nor do servos know about FM, AM, PCM or whatever. They all work on the same way when it comes to RX->Servo communication.

If anything, car servos are often stronger and faster than needed for your average trainer or sport plane, since the stearing linkage on some cars takes a lot more abuse than you'll dish out on the controls of an airplane in flight. ("in crash" is a different story, but that's another story).

For flying glow powered planes, there are lots and lots of options for radios. Unless you have a Ham license, you'll need to be on 72Mhz in the US. Most radios are FM or have FM and PCM ability. FM is fine. There are some AM sets around. Some of them are fine, some are low-power sets intended for small electrics. To be on the safe side, go wtih an FM Transmitter. And, to be on the safe side, look for a Receiver that is "duel conversion", or is a JR brand RX intended for airplanes. (JR RX's aren't duel conversion, but they have their own custom way of doing things that is as good as any duel conversion RX out there, so it's the "exception".

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

XDennis,

RCU is full of good advice just be careful of the well meaning but not very well informed posters who might in advertently give you incorrect advice.

After you have been to the club selecting a plane will become a non-issue. Find out who is going to teach you and ask for his top 3-5 favorite planes and pick one. Simple as that;)

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

^^Makes a good point.

I can't believe there are no active clubs in my area[&o], atleast none that are listed on this website. I guess I will be traveling to a nehboring city.

Thanks for your help guys :)

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

xDennis-

I went to the AMA's website and located the Charlotte Aeromodelers club. Their website is http://www.charlotteaeromodeler.bizland.com/. It looks like they should be able to help you out.

The AMA's club locator is at http://modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx.

Hope this helps.

-Scott

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

Awesome! I have emailed the Trainers right away. Hopefully I will be able to get some training in before the end of the year!

Also, do you guys recomend ball bearing engines?

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

Ball bearing engines are generally more durable than bushed engines and also a little more expensive. You will probably get quite a few replies recommending the Thunder Tiger ball bearing .46 or the Magnum XL .46 or the Evolution .46. I don't own any of them, but understand that they are all good engines and reasonably priced. The OS .46 AX is also a good ball bearing engine, but more expensive. Other ball bearing .46s include the Tower Hobbies and GMS engines. Some people have had good luck with these engines, while others have had problems. I have an OS .46 LA, which is a cheap bushing engine. It runs great but is low on power. You can probably do better for not much more.

I would recommend getting an ARF trainer, which you should be able to find for $60 to $120, one of the good BB .46 engines and either a 4 channel radio or an inexpensive computer radio, such as the Futaba 6EXA. Before you buy a radio, check with your clubs instructors to see what they recommend.

As someone else said, your car servos could be reused, but whatever radio system you purchase will come with 4 standard servos. I would use them in your trainer and save the car servos for a later project.

-Scott

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

Good Choice in Trainer... Re: Eagle 2... Although I would say that [8D]

Just Solo'd mine for the first time tonight...

Progress...

Day 1: Fly around in Circles
Day 2: Fly in Squares
Day 3: Take Off
Day 4: Take Off Loops, Rolls
Day 5: Land, Solo

Each day would be about 2.5 Tanks of Gas... So the Aeroplane is good to learn on... Probably need that time again to get my wings...

Couple of tips in preparing it...

1. The linkages between the Servos and the control surfaces are connected with Z Bends... I cut these all off and soldiered on Metal clevises for a better and more reliable connection.

2. The Throttle Linkage runs inside a plastic sleeve, when you open and close the Throttle you lose some of the directness because the linkage flexes... You could remedy this with stronger wire I guess but I fibre glassed the end of the tube to the fuselage and this made the throttle movement very direct.

3. I found that the Servo tray came lose when I was practising taxing around so I glassed that in too.

4. The instructions said to run the Antenna wire between the wing and the fuselage... Don't, drill a hole in the side of the Aeroplane and run the Antenna out and up to the tail that way...

Other wise the Aeroplane Balanced right off and is (Dirty at the moment) but Sweet...

Hope this helps...

Join a club, get ONE Instructor...

Matt

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

XDennis Im sorry for misleading you about the servos from your rc cars, crazy and long hours ( 23 hrs straight when I wrote) at work fogged my brain and I was thinking receivers. Again I Appoligize. Thanks Montague for straightening things out....NH

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

Dennis, there's lots of R/C activity all around NC. Not sure about the hobby shop situation in Charlotte, but there are several shops in the Hickory, Winston Salem area that get good reports. check out this thread: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_24...tm.htm#2404349

You've already made the first step, get in touch with a club. Next, I would go check out some of the hobby shops. Don't buy anything until you get a chance to talk with an instructor. Once you've got a feel for what you need, buy from the source that gives you the best overall deal. Note, getting help from the local hobby shop (LHS) is invaluable for a beginner. They may cost a little more than someplace like Tower Hobbies, but being able to go there or call when you've got a question is well worth the premium.

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

Hey Guys!

Your guys Rock, I tell ya what Ya'll got me so pumped up its awesome.

I stopped by a local hobby shop today and talked to a guy for ever, he happens to be a instructor also. He has made some awesome recoomendations. He suggested I get a Norstar (Think thats right) It comes with a os .46 and radio/electronics and a pretty sweet flight simulator. The price is 379, I'm pretty sure thats what I'm going to get.

I also stopped by the airfield where he said people go out to fly and there was some people flying, This was my first expirience around R/C Aircraft in the air, I was like a kid on x-mas with a huge smile from ear to ear it was awesome! I can't wait to get some air time! I will be buddying up with the guy from the hobby shop..

Also, I don't know how this works but do instructors charge to fly with them? I don't want to show up with no loose cash I will feel bad.

Thanks mucho!
Dennis

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

Dennis-

It's actually the "Nexstar." You can do a search on RCU to find out people's thoughts on the Nexstar. There is also a review of it at AMA's beginner web site, http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=1&ID=15. Most people don't like the "autopilot" and want to ditch the bolt on devices on the wings pretty quickly.

Instructors generally don't charge anything (although there are some exceptions). It is usually a nice gesture, after a few sessions to buy them a gallon of their favorite fuel or get them a gift certificate to the LHS.

Have fun!

-Scott

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

Good to see you're making contact with the local people who can help you. Did you perhaps mean Nexstar? Do some searches, you'll find lots of info on it in RCU. Lots of good reviews. It's a good plane, a good package, and the price seems good.

The problem I have with an RTF setup is that I want to choose the components such as radio and engine. RTFs take this choice away from me. However, they are great for a new person who is overwhelmed with choices and just wants to get flying. So, if you and your dad don't want to spend the time doing the research, go for the RTF setup. If you enjoy shopping and comparing the choices, as I do, then spend a little more time looking at ARF trainers, radios, and engine choices. You'll find this issue has been thoroughly discussed in RCU.

RTF setups also make assembly so easy (foolproof) that you don't learn much. This means it will be harder for you to build/assemble your second plane. If the two of you are all thumbs when it comes to assembling things, then the RTF is again a good choice. If either of you likes building things, and understanding how they work, then you might enjoy an ARF more. ARF trainers are usually easy to assemble and since they are designed for beginners, the instructions are usually very complete.

I've never encountered an instructor who charged. If you start learning before Christmas, maybe give him a little gift, and then give him something when you finish your training. I would think hobby shop gift certificates, unless he owns the store, would be a good gesture.

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

As opposed to what ... The first plane's assembly being harder:eek:

ARF, RTF, Kit all require different skill levels. Get what makes you happy and enjoy. Sounds like you hooked up with a few good guys get you Nextstar and go Fly.

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

The instruction manuals for beginner planes are written for... BEGINNERS. Assembling a beginners plane is a good learning experience. The instructions on non-beginner planes are probably not be written for a beginner. The author usually assumes some level of building experience. This means it will be harder to assemble if the person has not already assembled a beginner plane and learned the things that are not covered in the instructions.

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

Thanks again guys, I totally understand where all of you are coming from.

I do like to shop around and piece things together I was at Tower Hobbies for hours it seemed yesturday. My dad and I are borth pretty good with our hands but we didnt really want our first plane to be a kit, as we have never built a plane before and it would take much longer for us to get in the air.

I would lorefer an ARF so i could choose my radio and engine but I don't want to feel like im forgetting something. I was on towerhobbies and it seemed like each engine requiered different accessories same goes for the plane. I would like to run on a .46 2-stroke , then some of the kit plane RTFs I was looking at would only take a .40-.45 , things get confusing ... A RTF comes ..well.. ready :)

What are you thoughts?

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

You won't go wrong with the Goldberg Eagle II. I had a Super Tigre 51 on mine and man that thing rocked! Burnt it in when one of the dowel rods gave way and the wing came off in flight (bought it second hand). It became a 5 pound yard dart!

RE: Looking For goof Trainer
 

Dennis, sorry to open a can of worms. First, the engine sizes. Don't worry about being exact with the boundaries. A .46 will be fine in a plane that specs .40-.45. Ignore the engine and radio accessory lists on the Tower site. The list to use is the one for the plane. However, even this list should be taken with a grain of salt. For example, they recommend a wooden prop for their own trainer. Wooden props are far too fragile for training.

Here's one thought that might make it easier. Go back to the LHS. Explain your situation to the person that you were talking to. The Nexstar is the safest recommendation he can make. I'm sure if he knew that you and your dad were interested in choosing specific components that he'd be more than willing to help you. If he's unwilling to help you, there are always other shops, or you can buy online. A big advantage of buying from the LHS in your situation is you can see the ARF so you'll know what it does and doesn't come with.

Even if you choose to buy the major pieces somewhere like Tower, don't sweat the little stuff. You can always pick up anything you miss from the LHS. You're going to have to go there for things like fuel anyway. In fact, you'll find that many in the hobby are just about addicted to visiting the local shop. Many of us have to get our weekly visit to the shop, even if we don't need anything. :D

The typical list will be something like this:
Plane, engine, radio, props, fuel line, foam (for wrapping receiver, battery, and fuel tank), epoxy, CA, rubber bands, glow plugs (many engines come with one, some don't, you want one or two spares), etc. I like using a switch/charging lead holder. It looks better than the radio switch and puts the charging jack in a convenient place for testing the battery.

The following two lists are probably incomplete. Do some searches, there have been many threads over the last few months that have beat these two subjects to death.

Basic assembly tools:
Screw drivers, hobby knife, drill, etc.

You'll also need ground equipment:
Flight box, glow starter (either a glow starter or a power panel with a starter lead), fuel pump, electric starter (or chicken stick), battery tester (for checking the voltage of the receiver battery), misc tools, etc.