To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

First let me say that I am in a club.
I have been in this club for about 2 months or so and I have never flown a plane before.

Now the problem is that I can not seem to get anyone in the club to train me to fly my LT-40 (wich I have finished about the same time I joined the club). So I am getting tired of it just sitting here and not flying ..but just collecting dust![&o]
I have had about 4 people including the 3 instructors in the club tell me that they would train me and they would give me a call when they had time...then they tell me that the best way to learn is to get out there and just fly the plane, and the best way to learn is to teach yourself like they did. What is up with that S@$#?[:@]
By now most of you are going to say why don't i just join another club. Well the answer is that the next club close to me is about 50+ miles and that is to far for me to be traveling.
the weather here have been between 54F to 75F and not every windy or no wind at all.

So with that said I am thinking about going out to the field and teaching myself to fly my plane as it seems that i can not get anyone to teach me to fly.

So what do you guys think?

I know most of you will say to get an instructor but as I said I can not seem to get anyone to teach me!!!![:@]

thanks,

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

Try to determine when the instructors are at the field and show up with your stuff. It sounds like the problem is out of sight, out of mind. It's less than ideal, but it's what you've got. Showing up at the field is a sure way to get them to remember you. Don't just go there and start flying (actually, you'd most likely just crash). Tell them you are new and are there to learn. Those who are not instructors will quickly identify the instructors.

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

Well I would talk to the pres. of the club, and see whats going on, But
take into consideration if the training is at a high level now with other
people... You know these instructors do not get paid, and most have a
job, But they should have worked out a schedule for you.. Is there other
members there? Talk to them, Just maybe one of them will take you
under his/her wing... But I guess there are clubs like that around, It's
sad if there are... If they really don't care, then I'd say you gotta do
what you gotta do... I would if, I paid money to join and nobody wants
to help... But you can bet I'd first ask all that I saw there to find an
answer starting from the top...

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

I agree. Talk to one of the officers. Maybe there is a procedure you don't know about. Or maybe people just forgot.

I ask people to call me to let me know when they are available to fly.

If you know who the instructors are, get their e-mail. Send them a note as to when YOU are available. Don't make them chase you. You chase them.

Most of the time it is just a matter of people forgetting.

Definately show up at the field with your stuff every chance you can. Talk to people. Ask them to look it over. Run the engine a few times. Do all that stuff. Ask every time if there is anyone who can take the plane up for a test flight. Just be there!!!!!!

Someone will help you, but you have to ask and ask again. Don't expect them to chase you.

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

I say , make the trip for a while until you solo instead of fooling around with those clowns. I had similar experience when I started about 8 years ago. The club instructor was never there when he said he would be, Finally after a few weeks of this, I became friends with the LHS instructor who was always there seeing me and my boy sitting around.

You may get more satisfaction from making the trip

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

The others have pretty much covered it with the club's instructors (or lack thereof ).

Have you considered asking one of the other members who is signed off to solo, to take you up on a buddy box ? Granted, they are not an instructor, however, you would be getting some flying/stick time and you will learn.

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

I agree with what a couple of people have said. Go to the field with your equipment and get it set up to fly, then watch others flying.

When you see someone that seems to be a competent pilot, ask them if they would help you get the engine running properly and do a test flight. Chances are they'll be flattered and happy to help. Once they're in the air, they'll also most likely offer you the sticks.

Just remind them that you've never flown, make sure the plane is way up there, and be sure that they're ready to take the transmitter back if you get into trouble. After a minute or so with the plane you'll know whether or not a buddy box will be necessary to learn properly. If so, ask them if they'd be willing to take you up with a buddy box.

It would also be best if you have a spare, cheap, 4 channel transmitter and your own buddy cord. That way you could have it set up, trimmed to match your transmitter, etc. and it will take very little effort on their part.

I wish you were closer. I'm a club instructor and teach new guys frequently. Sometimes it's the last thing I want to do when I get to the field, but if someone was ready to go, it would be much easier.

Taking the time to set up my cord, reset trims on my transmitter, and just getting everything ready can take up a LOT of time.

By the way, we post club instructors' names and phone numbers in the club news letter, and even though I've trained numerous people, I've never once had someone call to schedule time. :eek:
Dennis-

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

thanks for all the advice guys and gals.
I will try to reply to some of the statements.
Here is what I have done thus far.....
I have got in contact with the club pres. today ( wich is one of the instructors) he told me that he could not train me for another few months but he would contact a few people to see what he could come up with for me and to give him a call in about 4 hours. So 4 hours later I called him back and he told me that he could not find anyone willing to do any training ....(I figured as much) and it would be better for me just to go to the field and give it a try myself!!

As for going to the field to find someone willing to take me in .......I go to the field Alot and at different times of the day and have been gooing for a few months now. Out of all the times I have went I only have caught only one person there and he did not even seem to want to even talk.

So as it stands now I do not even know what else to do and I am begining to think that sending $100 to join a club and the money that I have spent on the plane and equiptment was a wast of my time and money!!![:@] And I am just thinking about giveing this sport up.

As for the peeps that are or will say that I should just keep calling the people that i have talked to about getting trained well....If you knew how many times I have talked to these people over and over again and them telling me one thing then turn around and tell me that something else and not follow thur on what they say you would understand my furstration and the lack of help.


thanks,
Blindguarden

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

As I sit in The panhandle of Texas at 14 degrees, I would say if you take me in I will teach you to fly.

We haven't had a real decent day to fly in almost a month and I got the fever real bad. I am working on some projects for the winter but all in all I would rather be flying.

Just kidding of course, I couldn't leave here but it was a thought.


Don//

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

Well that's a little sad that the president of the club tells you to
give it a try on your own... I guess I could understand all being
busy, but in my opinnion that's not a club type advise.. Well not
much left to say except.. If it was me.. I'd ask for my money
back since you did not get any service or use from the club...
And if anything make that 50mi trip..if just to get someone
to train you.. But thats your choice... Good luck..

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

That is too bad. I'd think that any AMA chartered club would have a little more organized program for training new pilots. Not sure what your weather is like down there in AL, but when it gets cold here in PA, fewer and fewer club members and officers show up to fly.

The club I joined had a number of guys listed as "instructors", but I ended up getting to know the club secretary and president, and learned from them. They actually seemed to do most of the training this past flying season, even though they weren't listed as instructors! I had an advantage over most people joining a club for the first time, though... I started with a helicopter, in a club that was mostly planes. I taught myself to fly the heli, and got to know several experienced plane pilots while I was there. When I started with planes a few months later, I pretty much knew who was going to be at the field on certain days, and who would be able to maiden/trim-out my planes or buddy-box with me.

Clubs are very "social" organizations, and the group of guys that frequent it can really make or break your experience there... if you can get to know some of the more experienced fliers, you will most likely have some new friends that will help you learn to fly.

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

Whichever instructor which asks you to fly by yourself and learn by yourslef should be fired. Its their job to teach, most trainers are happy to teach others. AMA should get notified of this. Every charter club has rule that beginner must fly with a competent pilot, and if you dont have one constact ama. (unless of course, your club isnt ama chartered)

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

What a sorry club. It's hard to imagine an entire club full of people who are too selfish to spend a few hours helping someone new. I can't believe they all learned by themselves. However you said you've been to the field alot and have only seen one person? It sounds like a club that's dying from lack of interest. Hopefully you can find at least one person to help you. Perhaps then you can learn well enough to begin teaching people. And then maybe you can work with a few others to rejuvinate this club before it dies.

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

OK, I am sorry to take the discussion this way, but I see no choice.

You have four choices.


ASK FOR YOUR MONEY BACK

If you joined the club with the understanding that they would train you, then withdraw and ask for your dues and initation fee back. go find another club who will help you learn to fly.



TAKE YOUR CHANCES - and place others at risk

Take your plane up without assistance. You might succeed or you may crash your plane into dust or injure someone in the process. Not recommended with a glow plane.



ADD ELECTRONIC ASSISTANCE

You could try adding a flight stabilization system to the plane. Similar to what they put in the Hobbico Next Star trainer.

Take a look. They should work on electrics, gliders or glow planes.

The Futaba PA-2 PILOT ASSIST LINK AUTO PILOT SYSTEM - Approx $50
http://www.futaba-rc.com/radioaccys/futm0999.html
Manuals
http://www.futaba-rc.com/manuals/notes-pa1.html
Here is a newsletter review on the Futaba PA
http://farmclub.torqueroll.com/NewsL...Apr02-3rd.html


FMA Co-Pilot Flight stabilization system - $99
https://www.fmadirect.com/site/Detai...m=1489§ion=20
Co-Pilot with receiver $180 - may have extra features - not sure
https://www.fmadirect.com/site/Detai...m=1722§ion=29
Backyard Flyer Product review
http://www.backyardflyer.com/BY/articles/co_pilot.asp
Product Review
http://www.fmadirect.com/support_docs/item_1040.pdf


For $50-100 you can get electronic assistance with your plane. As you become
more skilled, you can turn down the assistance until you can turn it
completely off.

These don't gurantee success, they just help. Sort of like having someone ready to take over with you on the buddy box.



GO ELECTRIC

One of the reasons electrics have become so popular is they are much easier for self training than the typical glow plane. I have never flown a glow plane and I am having a ball. I have over 800 flights in two years, 6 electrics and 10 sailplanes. You don't need to fly glow planes.

Why electric? They are slower, lighter and if you select the right plane, the are much more resistant to crash damage. This is one of the reasons the number of parkflyers have grown by leaps and bounds and why electrics are overtaking glow in sales.

Lean to fly electrics and you may abandon the glow plane. Or, learn to fly on a crash resistant electric and then go back to the glow plane. Your club mates have abandoned you. They should be ashamed of themselves, but there is nothing I can do about it except give you alternatives.

I will even make it easier - RTFs

Below I list electric planes, parkflyers and e-gliders for beginners.
I don't recommend two channel R/T electrics, so you won't find any on the
list. They can be very easy to fly and can be a lot of fun, but they can also
be very easy to lose. A three channel R/E/T is a better choice as a first
plane, in my opinion.

If you are totally new to RC Flying, these articles may be helpful in
understanding how planes fly

RC Planes Are not like RC Cars
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=17

Stall
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=31

Launch into the wind
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=43

Parts of the plane and how they work
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=54

The RC Pilots Cockpit
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=59

Flying the Plane
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=64


READY TO FLY STARTER PLANES - Parkflyers
No building - they practically fly right out of the box

Aerobird Challenger - RTF Electric
I started on an Aerobird RTF. I love it and recommend it highly I have
almost 250 flights on mine. It is a ready to fly package which includes the
radio, charger, batteries, and all. $150
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/prod...p?prod=HBZ3500
Review
http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Disco...ID=1289#Page01
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147621


Slow-V from Parkzone
Best flown in still to under 5 mph breeze
Can also be flown indoors in a gym or similar space.
http://h1071118.hobbyshopnow.com/pro...p?prod=PKZ1300
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_20...tm.htm#2089493


T-Hawk - RTF
http://www.toytx.com/thawk3chrtf.html
T-Hawk - Without Radio - add your radio and receiver
http://www.readytoflyfun.com/wittran.html
T-Hawk Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ighlight=THawk


Easy Star - RTF
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240025.asp
Easy Star - ARF - Add you own radio gear
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240009.asp
Discussion Thread on Easy Star
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258656


ELECTRIC GLIDERS

Have you considered an electic glider? Usually larger than the typical
parkflyer, they also tend to be quite stable and fly a bit slower, which makes
them easy to fly.

If you would like to try soaring with the birds, then an electric glider might
be a good choice. These planes are launched with an electric motor. They can
be flown around using the motor, like a parkflyer, or they can be flown to
height, then the motor is turned off and you hunt for thermals, just like the
birds.

They can do loops and simple aerobatics, but are really optomized for thermal
soaring. The Aerobird and the T-Hawk, which are often mentioned as first
parkflyers, glide and thermal pretty well, but they come with fixed props.
These planes include folding props which make the plane more streamlined and
so it can glide better than a fixed propeller plane.

Some are RTF which are fully built, include all the radio gear with everything
installed. Battery and charger are included with the RTF planes. Some are
ARFs where you assemble the simple package, then add your own radio equipment.
Some are available either way.

With these planes you get a good first plane, a good first electric and a good
electric glider. It may not have been what you were thinking, but it may be
exactly what you were looking for.

Easy Star - RTF - also listed above
This is a Park Glider - can be flown as parkflyer or glider
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240025.asp
Easy Star - ARF - Add you own radio gear
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240009.asp
Discussion Thread on Easy Star
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258656

Ascent - this is a park glider ARF
It can be flown as a parkflyer or a glider
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...ProdID=EFL1075
Review
http://rcgroups.com/links/index.php?...at=237&id=4233

Spectra - 2M - RTF
78" wing span - perhaps too large for a parkflyer, but a good first e-glider
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...=LXVJ51**&P=ML
Spectra ARF -
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXADK2&P=7

Electra - 2M ARF
78" wing span - perhaps too large for a parkflyer, but a good first e-glider
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXDJB2&P=7

If you are not familiar with soaring, it is a lot of fun. Flights can be as
short as parkflyer and glow plane flights, or can last for hours, if you find lift.

This article may be helpful in understanding lift and the fun that e-gliders
offer to the electric flyer.

Finding Lift
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=57


These are the four alternatives I can offer you. Wish I could come an train you, but I can't.

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

raideron, pkh, samolot and piper chuck,

All of yall are right it is kinda sad but I also think that piper chuck is right about quote "Perhaps then you can learn well enough to begin teaching people" quote...even if I have to teach myself to fly....that will be my new goal.
Then maybe other new pilots will not have to go thru what i have been going thru!!
I am starting to look at it like this ...If I teach myself to fly I might have to repair or rebuild and keep repairing and rebuilding but sooner or later I WILL learn to fly. Then when and if new members come along I will jump at the chance to train them and will be eager to do so. I will even let them use my Real Flight to get use to the controls and mybe get the basics.

I believe I am not going to let these people get me down about it and I am still going to keep going to the fields and mybe I will luck up and meet someone that i have not met yet that will be willing to help me out but if they don't then that is ok too. Like I said I will Learn to Fly with or with out help!!!

thanks,
Blindguarden

Ps. phk, the weather here in AL has been very good the temps have been from 54F to 74F most days.

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

Do not! Do not !Do not! 'try' to teach your self. I can't stress that enough ~~~[>:] Unless you have and unlimited bank account and a team of builders on hand. You need to find a field that welcomes new pilots and those that are learning. With all the buddy cords there is no reason you can't learn to fly on just one plane

One more thing if you are paying dues and not getting any help maybe you need to RAISE SOME HELL while the other members are flying or when they land

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

One more thought, that others have expressed. Think about whether it would be worth the 50+ mile trip to the other club, at least enough to get your wings. A few long drives is preferable to trashing and rebuilding your plane several times. See if the other club is willing to help you. One thing I've found over the years is that most modelers will go out of their way to help others. All the people on RCU are a perfect example. Perhaps you can arrange enough sessions there to get your wings. Maybe someone from that club lives between their field and the one near yours and would be interested in coming to your field. It's worth a couple calls.

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

There you go blindguarden... Don't let anyone get you down from
doing something that you want to try!!! Teaching yourself is an
option, a lot of people have, But most the time it will not be the
best option due to the cost and it can be very dangerous even if
just to yourself.. So if you do pick that choice... Be as safe as you
can!! IMO Before taking the above option. I would continue going
to the field every chance you get and express your want to who
ever shows up at the field, But just start a normal conversation
first then work your way to.. Can you help me :-) Another option
is call your Pres. again and ask him, since you said for me to teach
myself, Do you think one day that you plan to fly can you just give
me a few pointers so that I have less of a chance to hurt myself or
others... I'm not sure what all the circumstances are at your club,
and maybe in the near future it'll all change.. But I would seriously
consider another club, Being close is super nice... But...
And I really like your thoughts on not letting others go through what
you are going through!! When ever you can make a change do it for
the better!! Good luck!!

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

I agree. When flying a balsa glow powered plane, don't try to teach yourself.

Even with the electrics I outlined above, it is better to have help. The planes are a lot tougher and a lot of people are self training, but there is so much you can gain from having even just a little guidance. I train people, primarily on Aerobirds. These planes can really take a beating. However, with just a little coaching they can be flying with a reasonable level of ability on the first day. I typically launch and land for them, but they are crusing around the field. By the second session, if they are quick, I can have them launching and landing, though not precision landing. That may take two more sessions and then practice. If you are good, you can even hand catch them.

On the other hand, some people go through an entire season without ever really "getting it". But at least the planes come through it in flyable condition, usually.



Yes, you can absolutely learn to fly without an instructor. However you have
to keep several things in mind before you try:

1) Am I going to be a danger to other people or property?

2) Am I going to be a danger to myself?

3) What happens if I lose control of the model? Do I know how to ditch it
safely and sacrifice the bird rather than put someone else at risk?

SAFETY FIRST!

I leaned with a little coaching from experienced flyers. That was a huge
help. I have never been on a buddy box or formal program. Here is what I would
suggest.

READ - RC Planes are not the same as RC cars, so if you are REALLY new to RC
planes, you will benefit from reading a couple of articles first.
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=31


DON'T START WITH A FUEL TRAINER unless you have someone to teach you.

Nothing against fuel planes, but they are powerful and they are heavy, meaning
that there is a lot of mass in a 3-6 pound plane flying at 25-50 mph. It can
do some serious damage if it hits something. It also needs a LOT OF SPACE to
fly safely. A football field isn't gonna cut it!


Notice I am not the slightest bit concerned about you crashing and destroying
the plane. That is a risk you take of your own choice. But the house, the car
or the kid you hit were not involved in that choice. Imagine hitting a 5 year
old with a 4 pound fuel plane moving at 30 MPH with that prop spinning on
impact. :(

GET THE PICTURE? [X(]

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

It's really too bad. I hope you do learn to fly...and teach others. Maybe you should start a club. That would give others that may get the same cold shoulder you got, a place and oportunity to fly. I help folks all the time, and I think most modelers do too. It's just too bad that you have to deal with folks like that.

What's the name of the club if you don't mind me asking? Maybe some of that clubs members will read this thread, realize how bad it reflects on them, and have a change of heart.

One could hope...good luck!

Jim C

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

I guess it sucks big time to be a beginner in your area. That is one sorry place to be.
I would strongly recommend that you take the 50 mile trip, hoping that you are a quick learner. Most important: onece you are proficient enough, don't ever forget what hapened, so you don't turn a cold shoulder to future beginners.
Good luck.

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

Greetings from South Carolina :-)

As far as anyone telling you that the best way to learn how to fly is to simply go at it on your own sounds like POOR advise and I am sorry to hear that your club is taking this approach in not putting forth the effort to assist you in learning how to fly.

Have you attended any club meetings to bring this matter to the attention of the club officers?

If it were me I would make trips out to the club field and get to know someone that flies on a regular baises and ask for their help in learning how to fly.

Our hobby is not self taught no matter who tells you this.

We have made too large of an investment in our hobby to just go out an destroy our models.

For this very reason is why I took it upon myself to put together a training package so as to aid the new pilots in learning how to fly.

wtb3886@yahoo

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

Okay, one more option that I haven't seen mentioned.

Buy a decent RC simulator, like Aerofly Pro, or Real Flight. The original Aerofly has been available for about $139, and Real Flight G2 is on sale right now for under $150. Both may be cheaper if you look at the Ads here on RCU or EBay, because newer versions of both have just come out.

If you put in 30 or 40 hours of solid Sim time, you stand a better chance of bringing your trainer home in one piece.

It does really suk that this club won't make more of an effort to help a new guy; and as was mentioned, it sounds like that club is dying from apathy. Wish I was closer, I'd be happy to help, and sure would like some of your weather!

Good luck, and don't let the ba$tards get you down.
Dennis-

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

I am said to be bullheaded. If I want someone to do something for me, they tend to be aware of it until it gets done. Of course, you are in fact asking for a favor, so you can't be abrasive, but you can be persistent. If someone says sure, they'll call you, give them a couple of days and then call them. Tell them you are trying to schedule a couple of other things but you sure want to be free when they can help. The trick is to make them feel guilty without making them angry. I think it is called diplomacy;) And, as said above, give back so that people want you to be happy.

Jim

RE: To Fly or Not to Fly?
 

Getting a good simulator, like RealFlight G2/G3, Reflex, or Aerofly Pro is a good idea whether you find an instructor or not. You will advance much faster, solo sooner, and probably have fewer crashes. I learned to fly my heli on a sim, had about 100 flights with my RC heli, and then flew some planes in the sim. After that, I was able to solo my Avistar trainer on my 3rd or 4th flight/tank. Even with my actual heli experience and my simulated plane experience, I was very glad to have an instructor help me set it up and buddy-box with me. I'm pretty certain that, without an instructor, my first landing would have resulted in a serious rebuild, or buying a new ARF!