How do I know?
 

How do I know when I am ready to move to an intermediate plane (low wing, tail dragger, etc)?

What should I be able to do with my trainer that will tell me when I am ready?
I know I should be able to take off, fly and land with no problem, but is there any other aspects that I should have become well versed in before I make the step?

Thanks,
Scott May

AMA# 826168

RE: How do I know?
 

Scott,

If you can answer yes to this list then go for it. It's assuming you can fuel, start, tune, takeoff, land, taxi and can do them well.

Is your orientation to the direction of flight pretty much second nature. e.g fly directly at yourself and can turn exactly the way you want to everytime. How about being able to tell if the plane is upright or inverted. In a turn can you tell if the top or botton of the plane is facing you at all times
Can you do mild aerobatics: e.g. stall turns, inverted flight, rolls, loops.
Can you do dead stick landings.
Can you land in the wind, how about crosswind both 90 degree, and 45 degree.

If you are pretty comfortable with the above then have at it. On most of them you do not have to be perfect, but I think the orientation part is very important as the rest will follow naturally.

Oh and do not forget to add rudder skills to the list of things you want to learn. That is probably the least used control surface but it is the most powerful one that you have on almost any plane.

RE: How do I know?
 

I agree. General flight should be second nature with no moments where you get confused and almost crash because you couldnt figure out what to do to get the airplane up and flying level. The is a point where you wont even think about it, just like driving a car. How many times do you actually think about putting your foot on the brake, using your turn signals and backing out of the driveway. Or think about how to balance when riding a bike.. You dont,,, you just do it. Thats the way that taking off, flying through the above listed maneuvers and landing should be before you move up.

Lots of people get impatient(I did) and move up before then, but the time from soloing to getting to that point isnt very far. Actually when you solo you are all but there already if your trainer is worth his water.[8D]

RE: How do I know?
 

My club instituted a change in our check off procedure for solo. The check off procedure is now:

Proper safety precautions are taken including frequency tag on the board.

Smooth CONTROLLED take off WITH proper throttle usage
Fly the pattern both left and right
Fly a left and right figure P
2 DEADSTICK LANDINGS (the instructor just puts the throttle and trim all the way down )
FLY A LEFT AND RIGHT FIGURE 8 WITH RUDDER AND ELEVATOR, no aileron allowed.
3 NO BOUNCE landings.

While some of the newbies have complained "it is too hard", the club has found that when you are checked off to solo you are a safer flyer and usually don't panic if/when a deadstick happens. We have also seen a marked improvement in the quality of the landings the newbies are making.

RE: How do I know?
 

The club I am in has a well documented training package and solo check flight. For the solo signoff, the student must do the following (I left out the details on all of the things the student must show during these):
1. Show that they know the club safety rules and pre-flight checks
2. Safely start plane and bring to take off position
3. Takeoff (mainting control on roll and climb out ) 3 required
4. 90 degree left and right turns while maintaining constant altitude.
5. 180 degree left and right turns...
6. 360 degree left and right...
7. Rectangular left and right landing patterns
8. Landing approach and go around, left and right
9. Minimum airspeed and steep bank left and right turns, maintain constant altitude
10. 2 inside loops from level flight, show proper use of throttle
11. Stable approach and landing, 3 landings required
12. Full stop landing
13. Taxi in
14 Shut down
15. Show overall safe and competent operation of plane and equipment

RE: How do I know?
 

I didnt start the thread, but man it has helped me think about some stuff thanks guys

RE: How do I know?
 

Ain't it great that we can all share information and experiences? :D

RE: How do I know?
 

yeah piper. But i have a question, why are tail draggers harder than trikes?

RE: How do I know?
 

A number of reasons for that with the most important being directional instability any time the wheels are touching the ground. The reason for this is the Center of Gravity of the airplane is behind the main gear contact point with the surface and any time the airplane is moving on the wheels that CG will try to swap ends with the wheels. With a tricycle arrangement and the CG in front of the main gear the CG will want to stay in front of the wheels, In other words will remain directionally stabile.

Another point is with conventional gear (taildragger) if the gear is mounted to far forward The airplane will tend to bounce on landings much more. However if its to far back the airplane will tend to nose over. So its important to hold full up on takeoff to a point and release much of the up or the airplane will jump into the air to slowly. Some airplanes this is more important than others and is very dependent on landing gear positioning. This is one consideration that flyers of tricycle gear don,t really think about much.

John

RE: How do I know?
 

Scott, these guys have given you some worthwhile info. I would like to add one thing. If you can afford it, don't get rid of the trainer. No matter how far you advance, there will be days when dragging out a slow, stable aircraft and just puttering around the sky or shooting a 100 or so touch and goes will be the best therapy you can find.

Not to mention that you will have the perfect airplane to introduce someone else to a great hobby.

Out of all the advise above, I think the most important (other than safety) is being perfectly comfortable with the orientation of the craft.

Ed M.

RE: How do I know?
 

great thread, lots of good stuff. My safety committee and I have been working on a good solo checklist for new pilots. Piper I saved yours and will probably use some of the stuff you have listed. Thanks

RE: How do I know?
 

Ned, thanks. For anyone interested in seeing the entire document, it's on our club's web site at: http://www.ncflyingtigers.org/documents/

RE: How do I know?
 

All the advice here is great and will aid you in making your decsision on when to move up. But Bentgear has made the most valid point Don't get rid of your trainer. It can be your 'test bed' for new engine break in and for trying new manouvers, if you can master them with a draggy trainer then doing them with a low wing sport plane will be a breeze :).

RE: How do I know?
 

The other good reason for keeping your trainer is that it won't be long before you are ready to teach others. I started last spring and by the fall I was taking my brothers up on the buddy box. Planning on working with my kids this summer.

-Scott

RE: How do I know?
 

Thank for all the great advice guys...

I am at the point where I have made about 15 solo flights with clean landings and some minor aerobats. I know I still need more time with the trainer and I do intend to keep it.

Hopefully it wont be too long before I get my next plane :D

-Scott

RE: How do I know?
 

Emofish, I'll just relate a story about one of the better flyers I know. I trained him on a Solo Sport, and he spent some time with a SoarStar at home. When he solo'd, I figured he would be bringing one of the other planes he was building right away. However, he stuck with that SoarStar for about a year! By the time he brought out the next plane, he was doing inverted flight and most of the IMAC type maneuvers with that SoarStar.

Nothing wrong with flying the dickens out of that high wing trainer!

Oh, and the guy I mentioned now has a Patty Wagstaff Extra, a Someth'n Extra, an Astro Hog and a Shock Flyer, and is flying some little electric Heli at home.

Good luck,
Dave Olson

RE: How do I know?
 

One other thing about trainers is fun flys. We have one a year that only trainers are allowed. Trainer races are a blast. Very easy to do. Setup cones at each end of the runway to make an oval track. Take all of the wings off of all of the trainers and run ten laps. Another one is the all up. Sorta like musical chairs with airplanes, everyone takes off and a timer starts and when it runs out, the whistle blows, last one down is eliminated. I would not want to do that with anything but a trainer.

So keep flying the trainer, there are lots of great uses for it after your are ready to move up

RE: How do I know?
 

When you get to the point where you enjoy flying the plane and feel confident in what you are doing you are ready to move on and enjoy the hobby:)

[8D]