Question for instructors
 

What do you do with your trainees when you are training them to fly their plane? Do you switch rx xtals tx xtals or what? Or, do you just fly your own planes?

RE: Question for instructors
 

of course you knew you would get this answer - it depends on what the student has. if the student has:

no equipment - clearly i provide everything

radio with no buddy box compatibility - i replace the rx or xtal with my own and fly with my own tx and buddy box

radio with buddy box and xtal compatibility - i fly my tx as the master and use his/hers as the buddy box

radio with buddy box but no xtal compatibility - i fly with his/her tx as the master and use mine as the buddy box

naturally the best for me is to be able to use thier planes and my tx as the master and his as the buddy box. i fly a Hitec Eclipse 7 and since I have the spectra module, I can fly all 72 mhz channels W/O changing xtals and buddy box all futaba radios. this I think is the best set up. having them flying their own planes is the best because you can first check out the plane and trim it instead of having him/her do it. then when he/she is ready for his solo, he/she does not feel so much pressure when flying his/her own plane. using his/her tx is also very important because it is good to get to know where all your functions are. if you are running a computer radio buddy boxed all the dual rates, electronic trims still work. it's good for the student to know where things are and be familiar with his/her own radio.

RE: Question for instructors
 

I've been an instructor for 6 years now, and in that time I've had exactly two trainees that used my plane to learn on. And I won't do that again. It turns out that they don't learn to prep and clean up the plane as well as if it's their plane. All of my students now have to have their own plane. No exceptions, plain and simple


The only exception I make is when I bring out my trainer to give "demo" flights. I use it for people thinking about getting into the hobby. If they like it, then I have them buy their own plane, motor, and radio. If they don't like it, I've saved them a few hundred bucks.

That's my .02 cents worth.

RE: Question for instructors
 

My students bring their own planes and we supply the buddie boxes at my club.

Once the students plane is checked out, the radio that belongs to that plane is now considered the master nad the buddy box is the slave.

The instructor takes the master and hits the trainer switch. The student then using the slave radio to verify all control surface movement and throttle movement

The plane is now started and taken to the taxi area which at this point if it is a first time flight for either the plane or the student or both then the instructor will fly the plane and get it trimmed. After that is done and the plane is taken up high, control is given to the student only if and when the student is ready. Some students just feel comfortable with the sticks on their fingers and follow the instructor while the instructor flies the first flight or two.

A dialog must exist between the student and instructor as to who is doing what and when. Even little things like looking away must be communicated so if you look away and the instructor is flying he does not hand control to you if you are not looking.

Which brings up another point. Both the instructor and student need to agree on comminucation when it comes to aircraft control before a flight is even begun and I do mean every flight. As an exampe, if the student is flying and is getting tired he should make the instructor aware that he feels tired wants to hand control over to the instructor. The instructor should then acknoledge this and then take control and let the student know he now has control.

My point is communication is key to any instructor/student relationship. Each must let the other know what is hqppening and when. Control should never be handed off in either direction without full knowledge of it happening. This includes saving a plane from near disaster. I will usually tell me students I am taking control just as I do it and then once I have control explain why I took it and did not give them a chance to argue the point. This is rare as most students know when they are in trouble and are usually glad you took over.

I know it sounds silly but it works well

I am sure others will be able to add more to this

RE: Question for instructors
 

i agree wholeheartedly with bubbagates on the communications being key. it's important for the student to know when he is in control of the plane so the he/she can learn from mistakes. i always tell my students when i take over... it's just instinctual now so they are not wringing out the controls wondering why the plane is doing something else.

RE: Question for instructors
 

It's illegal in the US to change transmitter crystals, so that's not an option. While I've only been instructing for one year, I have yet to have a student that hasn't had their own plane. I have a buddy box compatible with Futaba and Hitec.
Dennis-

RE: Question for instructors
 

I use my own aircraft frequently for an intial demo when i am there with an approriate airplane but no training beyond that and for the reason mentioned by others above. Using a provided airplane will in many cases present holes in the individuals learning curve. Important things like battery charging, preparation before leaving for the field and minor repairs. Also a student providing his own equipment demonstrates much more genuine motivation than someone using say a club trainer. Make no mistake it does take motivation to persevere and realize you dreams.

For most conventional training I prefer as most the Buddy box and of course that means the students Tx is the master on his Frequency. I have a large variety of my own boxs and cables but not all. If the student has one of the few that I cannot buddy then if he wants to fly with me then he will have to provide it. Remember most 'mentors' are volunteers. In some cases where a BB box is not possible at all and if he/she demostrates to me that motivation then I will use the 'pass the box' method. With the understanding that this will shallow out the learning curve and the total time to what ever that students goal is will take more time.


For those with old timers, gliders and motor gliders my preferred method is not to use a BB box, instead I will sit in my wheelchair facing the student to his right (this is one place where I am at a distinct advantage over bipedal mentors) and with his thumbs on the sticks I will also have control with a thumb finger on the right stick below his thumb.

Lastly before the wheelchair up to two years ago for controlline I used a double handle. Still fly Ukie in the chair but can no longer do mentor choirs.

John

RE: Question for instructors
 

Thanks for the replies guys. Bubba, the communication thing me and my instructor got down really good, He will say are you ready to ctonrol and i will have to say yes before he does anything, and when he flips the switch he says its your plane. So will the changing the reciever batts be something to do? or should we just switch revievers entirely?
Thanks guys

RE: Question for instructors
 

You want to change batteries? For what purpose?

RE: Question for instructors
 

Our club has Futaba, Hitec & JR buddy boxes & cable sets. The student's radio & xtl set is used as the master, & the student provides the a/c. On occasion I use one of my own a/c as the training vehicle, but very infrequently.

RE: Question for instructors
 

Thats good to here but that is not everything as far as communication is concerned, there is much much more.

A Small example:

Preflight discussion: what the flights purpose is.
Post Flight discussion: Discussing what was done, how it was done, and what to do about any mistakes that were noticed plus kudos on anything that was done correctly.

Kudos during the flight at appropiate times are always a good thing. Never ever tell a student, excuse me, a new student, say within 6 flights, anything negative during the flight as it will make them more nervous. The exception is a student that is a natural.

RE: Question for instructors
 

John, if it's not too personal, how do you ukie in the chair?

RE: Question for instructors
 

I have good use of one leg so I don,t use the legrests and my usual mode of propulsion is kicking myself along backward with the one good one and a little help from the other. Flying the Ukies has worked out well as long as I am on concrete or pavement Then its just a matter of kicking around with the good leg. All my ships now have thottle that is controlled with a Bill Young three channel electronic handle. The digitized info is sent over the insulated lines. This is neccessary so I can terminate when ever i want.

A few years back I did some public shows with the Ukies and one of the gags was to carry a lawn chair out with me and at some point sit down and proceed to do a bunch of horizontal eights then pop up and land. Maybe this was bad charma. Anyway the wheelchairs easier, Got wheels.

John[8D]

RE: Question for instructors
 

bubba, i thought u were just talking about when he was letting me know it was my plane and stuff. And yes he always walks me through whatever he is doing when he is doing it and Asks if theres anything i need to know.

I mean switch xtals though

RE: Question for instructors
 

One recent student has a very old plane equipped with an AM radio. His radio has no student cord port. I provided a receiver on my channel, mounted it on top of his receiver and ran the antenna parallel to his, and stuck the servo connectors and battery connector into my receiver.

That allows use of his plane with my radio, and I furnish the student cord and transmitter. When he solos, I'll retrieve my Rx and help him hook back up.

I make my students extend the antenna on the instructor transmitter, retrieve the frequency pin and clip it on the instructor transmitter, and prepare the plane for flight. We communicate before, during and after the training session, and I fill out a report (it's a column, on a spreadsheet page) on each flight. We look at the report and see what progress the student has made, and what still needs work. The student puts the antenna down and retrieves his AMA card at the frequency board, after the session.

Good luck,
Dave Olson

RE: Question for instructors
 

Newb-
Do you want to switch crystals because you want to hold YOUR transmitter in your hands while flying, instead of the BUDDY? Is that the reason for this question?

RE: Question for instructors
 

Well, My instructor only trains people on his plane, So this was the reason... but we arent sure yet. I got a couple of days

RE: Question for instructors
 

Then when both of you are using HIS plane: He is holding HIS transmitter with the correct crystal already installed for the receiver HE installed in the plane. YOU are buddied in and holding YOUR transmitter(or buddy box) which should be turned off anyway and does not even need to have a crystal installed. Whenever HE holds the trainer switch, your sticks control his transmitter using HIS crystal. I think it is fine, but unusual, that he wants you to crash his planes for him. Most instructors prefer to teach on the students plane, that is the one you need to learn how to fly. It WILL be different from his, be prepared for that when you transition over. Do you understand all of this? I do not understand any reason why you want to move crystals in this scenario

RE: Question for instructors
 

At our club, Wyoming Modelers' Park, we supply the airplane, radio with buddy box and fuel for students. We have 7 Kadet LT-40s with OS .46 FX/AX with Futaba and JR radios. We also have 3 Tiger IIs with OS. 46 AX. We find we get more people to take the plunge if we supply the equipment. When they solo they can decide what type of trainer they want to get. We then give them some buddy/stick time with their model and turn them loose. It really helps get younger flyers who don't have the money to invest in a trainer package up front interested in RC. As a matter of fact, 5 of the LT 40s and the Tiger IIs were built by kids in the summer Young Aviators program.

Rich

__________________________


"Wyoming Wind Festival Jan 1 to Dec 31"

RE: Question for instructors
 

staggerwing,
I like the way you do you program as a way to get younger fliers into the hobby. I wish we had the resources at our field to be able to do something like that.

RE: Question for instructors
 

Ken, actually it hasn't cost us much other than time and fuel.

The first two club trainers were donated by club members who had out grown their trainers. We gave them letters that they could use for tax deductions if they wanted to.

The other planes, radios, etc. were purchased by the Gear-Up program at the local community college. Gear-Up is a summer program for elementary through high school that offers all kinds of activities for kids. Young Aviators is the program for upper elementary and middle school kids. Our club and the local EAA group provides man power for some of the activities. A couple of local teachers coordinate the daily activities. Four or five of our retired guys work with the kids in the morning on building the models and learning to fly. The EAA guys take the kids up for flights in the Young Eagles program. At the end of the summer, Gear-Up donates the models, etc. to the club. We keep them in flying shape and repair them when necessary.

Three of us keep trainers in our trailers all the time. If a kid from Young Aviators comes out to fly, they can use any of the LT 40's or Tiger IIs. After they have soloed, they provide their own fuel. We also use the LT 40's with adults who are learning to fly.

Rich

_________________________________


"Wyoming Wind Festival Jan 1 to Dec 31"

RE: Question for instructors
 

Rich,
I understand what you are saying. But right now our field does not have a club supporting it. It's a long story, but it basically boils down to our field on a military base and we don't need a club. We have a small group of active fliers (about 15-20), most of which were fed up with some of the BS involved with a club. We all work together when it comes time to mow the grass and maintain the field, but beyond that there is no club. I maintain a trainer that I use to give people "demo" flights, but as I stated above I require students to get their own plane. If we had a club, or more people, we might be able to set up something like you described. I might look into it and see what we can do. Right now I am the only one that is doing instruction, so I'll have to talk others into it.

RE: Question for instructors
 

Ken, having a field that is secure is great. Our present field (and club) is only five years old. It is on state land that is leased to the city of Riverton who in turn leases it to us. We are in the development stage. We've build paved runways, main and cross wind, an off-road car track and on-road car track. We're committed to developing a park for the community for recreational purposes. Part of that commitment is getting new people involved. The community has been very good to us. They have contributed over $120,000.00 to getting the site developed. It's a two way street.

Check out our website:

www.wyomingmodelerspark.com


Rich


__________________________

"Wyoming Wind Festival Jan 1 to Dec 31 "

RE: Question for instructors
 

$120,000?????!!!!!!! Holy cow!!!! I'd be happy if the Army would pony up $120 for our field. The really good thing about our field is that it's safe. We have enough disabled vets, retirees and soldiers that fly at our field that the Army has designated our field as being secure (i.e. it won't get closed). so as long as Ft. Sill doesn't wind up on the next base closure list we've got someplace to fly.

RE: Question for instructors
 

where is your field?