Second plane Biplane?
 

What would be a good Biplane as a second plane? Something with a wing span around 60". And is there a reason I shouldn't get a Biplane as a second plane? They look really cool. My beginner plane is an LT-40.

RE: Second plane
 

I've had more bipes than I can count and I really wouldn't recommend one as a second plane. The first and foremost reason is that the landing approach is so much different. A trainer is designed to be able to float forever, especially when landing. And 99.99% of students are taught to "float" it in during a landing. Most bipes (at least the ones I've flown which has been 3 Sig Hog bipes, 2 Dave Patrick Ultimates, and a GP Ulimate) do not float. You have to fly the plane to the ground. My recommendations would be to get a second plane that is a little more forgiving, but would let you start learning to fly in a landing. 2 that jump to mind are a Sig 4 star or a Goldberg Tiger 2. While you are learning there I would suggest you start building a bipe. In that area there is only one recommendation in my mind, and that would be the Sig Hog Bipe. You really can't beat a Sig Pig for a good bipe to fly.

Hope this helps.

RE: Second plane
 

I agree with the Tiger 2 as a great 2nd plane. Idon't agree with the 4* because they float as bad or worse than trainers so how is that supposed to train someone how to land a plane that has to be flown to the ground?!? :eek:

RE: Second plane
 

I also agree with RCKen on the bipe as a second plane. Not only do they have to be flown to the ground, but when you back off the throttle they slow down FAST because of the drag.

The Tiger 2 and Sig 4* are the usually suggested planes for a second plane. You may also want to look at the World Models Rambler 30 and 45 (same as the 30 but has retracts). They are very well constructed ARFs and fly nicely. They do float some, but not as much as the 4*.

Just out of curiosity, can you fly your trainer inverted doing a full patern ? When you can do that, you have outgrown the trainer. Your trainer is capable of quite a bit more than a lot of people think they can do.

RE: Second plane
 

I've heard that taking out one wing bay on each side takes care of the floating on the 4 Star.

RE: Second plane
 

mike,

In addition to my scale, my twin-engine and my fully aerobatic planes, I fly bipes because I, also, think they look cool. I currently have a Midwest 'Super Stearman', a Pilot 'Pitts S-2', and a 'Great Lakes.' In addition I have previously flew a 'Bipe Stick,' a 'Lazy Ace' and a 'Tiger Bipe' Each has its own characteristics with two common to them all. They all sink rather rapidly when power is reduced, and they all require focussed attention on power and rudder during takeoff.

I am hesitant to say yes or now to a biplane as your second airplane, without knowing how you fly your LT-40 or how comfortable you are during take off and landing.

As others have stated, IMHO a higher performance plane, such as the 'Tiger 2,' might be the best choice for your second plane. Especially if it is a tail dragger, or modified to be one. Then you can practice/perfect smooth, straight take offs, power on (slight power) approaches and settling to touch down landings, while deciding which bipe you'd like and getting it ready.

RE: Second plane
 

I have a Tiger 2. Excellent 2nd plane! Mine has trike gear. And most of you are correct, the Tiger 2 takes a tad bit more effort to land than a trainer. It still will float a little but you have to sorta fly it into the ground. Right before I touch down, I drop the throttle all the way on the Tiger. Usually lands fine this way. Matter of fact, my U Can Do and my H9 Twist float more in landings than the Tiger does.

Dave...

RE: Second plane
 

I went from a Kadet Senior to a four star 60 to a Hog Bipe. The four sttar 60 was short lived about 20 flights --my confidence far exceeded my ability. The Hog Bipe was hurriedly completed for service. I had few problems beyond adjusting to the flight characteristics. The LT-40 is a little hotter then the Senior and its a tail dragger. I jumped from the Senior to the Bipe with only limited experience on a low wing trainer and did fine. I would think your jump would be similar to mine. Master the LT-40 completly --complete circut inverted, confident repeated basic aerobatics and you could to it. Get your buddy box out for the first biplane flights. Let an experienced pilot land so you can gauge the different approach pattern. I recommend the Hog Bipe and move the landing gear forward 1/4 to 1/2 inch to improve ground handling.

Consider this: My biggest problem was fear. Fear that I would crash and ruin my plane. I spent about two months with twitchy thumbs because I did not want to lose it. This limits your enjoyment of the hobby. If I was to do it all over I'd still build the bipe as a third plane and get more time on the four star before crashing it.
I all but went from trainer to bipe, one can do it. IMHO get a four star as a second plane you'll enjoy flying it more. Can't enjoy hobby when you fear crashing.

RE: Second plane
 

Thanks guys, My LT-40 is a trike and I haven't even flown it yet. I am just thinking far far far ahead, maybe too far. LOL

RE: Second plane
 

Well....

I went from my trainer, to a CG Ultimate kit that I built, it was my second plane and my first kit. The plane I would say lasted approx 20 flights but I killed it doing something stupid not because I couldn't handle the plane. I dont find the landing approach that much different, you carry a couple clicks throttle on your way down instead of gliding in but the goldberg ulti lands sooo sweet and gentle. If I was to do it again I would still have gone with the ultimate, however that is a bit much plane for a second plane, and can be a bit intimidating. Mostly it depends on your skills and how comfortable you are flying what you have now. If you've really got it down, I don't see why you couldn't go with the ultimate.

RE: Second plane
 

Agree wholeheartedly with Fastky re: the 4*. It`s a floater extraordinaire and IMHO isn`t a particularly good plane to learn to fly to the ground.

RE: Second plane Biplane?
 

I wouldn’t recommend a bipe as a second plane but for different reasons than most. I have a Balsa USA Phaeton II and a Hog Bipe. They are almost as easy to fly as a trainer. They will fly slowly and maneuvers are stately rather than frantic. If anything landings are easier than a trainer precisely because they don’t float. Just carry a little power on approach to give whatever glide angle you want and cut it as you cross the threshold. It’s almost automatic.

The reason I wouldn’t recommend a bipe for a second airplane is more related to damage and repair. A second airplane will likely be subject to a few more hard knocks while experience is being gained. Bipes take longer to build, are a little harder to setup, there is more stuff to damage, and they are a little more fragile than a monoplane. As far as flying, if you have really mastered the LT-40 you shouldn’t have any trouble flying either of the two bipes I have. But depending on your construction/repair skills, it might be better to defer.

RE: Second plane Biplane?
 

I guess I'll cause some waves. :D I have a Dymond Models Tiger Moth ARF that flies almost identical to my 4* 60 (Tiger Moth lands easier). BUT! As a beginner you will need to enlist aid to assemble it, instructions are not written for a novice at all. I would recommend you have instructor maiden it and put you on the buddy box to start. (I'd recommend that for any 2nd plane though)
The other planes mentioned are all nice as well.

RE: Second plane Biplane?
 

Try the Great Planes Tiger Moth. It flies very slow. Just about have to cut the engine to get it to come down.

RE: Second plane Biplane?
 

I don't have an experience with this... but what about a Sportster 40 bipe? The sportster itself is a good second plane. Does the Sportster Bipe fly any different? You'd have to either scratch build it or find a kit on ebay. But its worth a shot. On the other hand I had a scratch built fokker D7 bipe as a second plane. Not a good idea. First tail dragger too, wanted to ground loop like crazy and landing was tough. NOT a good second plane.

RE: Second plane Biplane?
 

Thanks guys I'm reading all the advice even tho I'm not responding to each one of you.

RE: Second plane Biplane?
 

RE: Second plane Biplane?
 

I had a GP Ultimate ASAP for one of my early planes. Flew great, lost it too early, battery came loose.

The problem with most second planes is short life. I'm going to suggest you spend a LOT of time with that trainer - at least 200 flights, working on challenging stuff each time. Work your way up to precision routines, including IMAC maneuvers and inverted flights. Then the chances for your second plane are pretty good.

Nothing wrong with a biplane, if you set it up correctly and take your time getting to know it, for a second plane. I'd start with an Ultimate, something that's popular and easy to set up. Get used to the taildragger differences before you take off - taxi a lot.

Good luck,
Dave Olson

RE: Second plane Biplane?
 

Mike,

Since I know where you are in your training I will forgo the don't do the biplane as a second plane recommendation.

When you are ready, I would suggest the Tiger Moth as a first bipe. The are very gentle and predictable. If you want to build one that is a kit then the SIG Hog Bipe is the one. Again real predictable.

Now if you really want a bipe that will grow well with you a Carl Goldberg (CG) Ultimate is the cats meow in my opinion. Taking all of the excellent advice that has already been given and applying it, this bipe is probably one of the best out there. Actually any of the Ultimates are great except for the 40 size if you can even find them anymore. The 40 sizes are somewhat twicthy.

The CG Ultimate on low rates is as docile as they come. Crank up the throws and it becomes one of the wildest planes out there, but it's still really predictable. Landing this plane is extremely easy as long as you keep a touch of power on until just about a foot off of the runway.

One of the best setups for the CG is the YS110 turning a 16X6 APC prop and Hitech 5645-MG servos all around. That's what I had in mine. The servos were overkill but I like lots of torque on my servos. All I can say is holy cow. I did the stupid thing and sold mine but I just ordered the Wildhare Ultimate that is coming out in April that runs on 50cc gas using the same servos I used in the CG Ultimate

I have seen the CG Ultimate flown with OS120 Surpass engtines and Saito 120 up through the 180 and all fly it well

Here is a link that has a few pics of the Wildhare Ultimate...Can't wait I now see relief for my biplane withdrawl symptoms [&:]

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Utli...2720071/tm.htm

RE: Second plane Biplane?
 

What about a GP Super Sportster MKII as a second plane?

RE: Second plane Biplane?
 

The Super Sportster is a fine intro to low wing planes. Set it up on low rates, it will be easy to get used to. Then you can crank up the rates and learn some aerobatics. One of my students got one, it serves him nicely.

I will, however, recommend you really wring that first plane out, 200 flights or more, before moving on to something like that Sportster. You can do inverted flight, and all kinds of aerobatics, with whatever you are using for a trainer.

Good luck,
Dave Olson

RE: Second plane Biplane?
 

I'm flying an LT 40:D

RE: Second plane Biplane?
 

I have a GP ultimate and I was told by everyone that I needed to be careful on the approach. I gotta say the difference is not as much as I thought it would be. Just need to keep the power on a little longer than normal (compared to my RV-4). It is not however very forgiving. I would ony recommend it as a 2nd plane if you can fly the wings off your trainer.