Trainer or Other
 

Is a good first plane a trainer or some other type of kit?? i want to learn how to fly but i also want my plane to look pretty. Also i am wondering what the ideal wingspan/size of the first plane would be. any response is appreciated.. THanks

Trainer or Other
 

A trainer is the best way to go, some of them are pretty good looking. I would'nt be concerned about looks because odds are it's gonna get beat up or destroyed and you don't want to spend a bunch of money on a plane that probably won't survive. A trainer is easier to learn with, that's what it was designed for.

Trainer or Other
 

I generally recommend to new flyers in our area that they go for a fairly large trainer - something in the size of 60 - 70 inches wingspan range. This give you a plane that is easy to keep in sight.

A trainer is definitely needed - they are designed to fly at a reasonably slow speed and have good stability - depending on the plane some can do a pretty good recovery from a problem if you just neutralize the sticks and let it recover on its own.

Despite a trainer flying fairly slowly, when you are first learning to fly it is just amazing how quick it can start getting out of sight. The key in learning to fly is to be able to put the plane in the area in the sky where YOU want it, not where it wants to go (they do tend to have a mind of their own).

Another thing is if is an ARF look for one with a really contrasty color scheme that is in colors you can pick up readily. If you build your own, that is easy to do. Last weekend, a new pilot came out with his trainer - kit built - and he covered it in a pale blue and white scheme - you can't imagine how hard that was to see once it was in the air and some distance out.

Hope that this is helpful.

Best trainer going.
 

Go here.... http://www.chiefaircraft.com/Models/Model.html
Look under gas powered planes....
Click Hanger 9....
Click...Easy Two....

I think the best flying trainer out there, and the dropped the price from $150, to $100....can't beat 'em.
I usually recommend big trainers too, but this one is the exception to the rule. :D
Put a Magnum .46 in it.

Trainer or Other
 

I would not worry about looks right now. After a few rough landings or worse, it will not look good anyway. Wait until you are ready to progress to your second or even third plane to think about how it looks. You should get a 40 or 60 sized trainer.

Trainer or Other
 

Thnks for all the info guys.

trainers
 

I have found that trainers are great for starting out. They are built for function and not looks. You can get past the basics much faster with an easy, forgiving, trainer than a faster, more responsive 2nd type plane. If you can't land at 10 mph how will you make out trying to land at 20 mph? Once you have moved on to the 2nd plane your trainer will seem pretty boring and laid back and you really won't be too interested in it anymore so don't worry about how it looks. As long as its big and has bright contrasting colors so that its easy to see, thats all that matters. Best of luck. Fast! :D

SIG LT-40
 

Greetings,

I have a SIG LT-40 with an OS FX .46 engine. I have been very pleased. (I'm not intending to start a debate on trainer or engines, just my opinion).

Anyway, you'll be flying pretty high at first, so wingspan is GOOD. The LT-40 has a 70" wingspan.

And, like everyone says, don't worry about pretty, it won't stay that way. But eventually you'll begin to treasure your battle scars.

I would also recommend AGAINST building a kit the first time out. Unless you have all winter to work on it. Many of the experience modelers on this board consider that to be heresy but I think they are just full of crap. I'm going to build a kit on my second, but if I had tried the first time out, it would have taken months and I would have been afraid to scratch it.

Just have fun...

GB

Trainer or Other
 

bgc22

Almost every major manufacturer that comes to mind makes a trainer kit or ARF. As to which one is better that is a very subjective opinion. I think the majority of trainers out there perform so similarly that it makes your choice of a specific model/brand less relevant. What you should is the following.

1. If you haven't already FIND A CLUB!!!!!

2. Speak with an instructor and get that person's feedback!!!!
(They will be teaching you)

3. If you have followed steps 1 and to 2 your choice of trainer won't be as critical.

Oh and by the way...

When you are flying it you will think its the most beautiful thing you ever saw!!!!! Trust me.




Since you did ask for a list

Kit Manufactures
Sig
Carl Goldberg
Clancy Aviation

ARF Manufacturers
Hobbico
Hanger 9
World Models
Global


As far as ghostbear's comment on a kit taking all winter IGNORE IT he is speaking from ignorance. Most of the trainers (10) that I have built over the last 18 years have taken less then 3 weeks construction time (part time that is)

Build a Kit if you want its a great accomplishment or get an ARF it really depends on what you are looking for..

One other thing some people may think they're ugly but a trainer is a great plane to just have I always try to keep a trainer airworthy no matter what other birds I'm flying.

Trainer or Other
 

Here goes another $0.02

Agree that it is always good to have a trainer ready to go. I keep an old Kadet Senorita with .26 4-stroke around for relaxed flying and "flying-on-the-wing" practice from time-to-time. Plus, when you graduate from basic training, you can increase the throws on the control surfaces and learn basic aerobatics.

Also, I second that you need to get with a club. Helps to end up with equipment that is reasonably compatible with what the instructors are flying.

On the ARF vs Kit, there are as many answers as there are people. Factors that come into play are:
How long will it take the first time builder to complete a kit - I have personally seen cases where this ranged from less than 1 month to over 6 months!!
Another point to ponder is how attached will you be to the plane you have built? Again this ranges from "So, What?" to "I don't want to get a scratch on my creation". In this latter case, an ARF makes a good starter model with a kit built as a second plane after you learn the realities of the hobby.

I guess it really comes down to the fact that no two pwople are anywhere near identical in their outlook and abilities.

Take care,

Trainer or Other
 

BGC22,

I'm 39 years old, when I started 8 months ago I didn't know CA glue from EPOXY. You may have experience. However, nothing infuriates me as much as someone with "18 years experience" telling you it will take three weeks to build a kit.

There was plenty of building on my LT-40 ARF! It took me about 4 weeks to get it all together.

Read a few reviews in RCM, they all say how easy it is to assemble an ARF, THEN they go on for pages about how the landing gear didn't fit and they had to mod this or the engine was off-center and they had to mod that. My point is that there are many experience modelers who either can't or won't remember what it is like for the newbie to put together their first model.

If I recommended to my clients that they build their own PCs (which I CAN do after 18 years of experience) I'd get pounded. HOWEVER, all these experience modelers have no qualms about treating newbies as if they SHOULD have all THEIR experience.

All I can say is try and DISASSEMBLE some balsa you have CAed together because the instructions didn't tell you which side was up... Point of information - Most instructions are written by the same experience modelers that assume you have 10 years experience and an industrial strength shop. It is very rare to NOT find a list of suggested mods, even for models with great instructions (such as SIG).

There's nothing wrong with ARFs and you can build a kit on your second plane.

But, my message is HAVE FUN. If you can't wait to get your plane in the air (which is how I was), get an ARF. Remember, you may NOT like the hobby. (not likely, but you never know).

Be cool,

GB

Trainer or Other
 

They all crash sooner or later. It goes with the territory. Anyone who is not prepared to accept this fact is in the wrong hobby.

If you're to attached to a particular model find a good display area in you house and NEVER risk flying it.

I think sometimes people who are new to this hobby either aren't told this or don't believe it. It's probably the first thing anyone thinking of purchasing a trainer should come to grips with and accept. :D

Trainer or Other
 

Ghostbear,

My comment was based entirely on your statement....


Normally when someone is in a position to "recommend" a course of action that another should follow they are speaking from Experience plain and simple...

By your own admission you are new to this. Your entire experience is one kit. Don't get mad I'm not putting you down.
Everybody has to start somewhere.

As far as how long a kit should take it does depend on the individual. But Trainer kits are normally designed to be easy to fly and build when compared to other types of kit planes. There purpose before ARF's was and still is to teach basic construction and flying skills.


Ghostbear,
Please take note of the sentence you wrote that I bold-ed. Most people in this hobby that would find ARF's Hersey have valid reasons for their opinions which have usually been formed with an item you currently lack experience. Hence my response.

I've been Lucky to have had the privilege of knowing many individuals over the last 18 years who have used the knowledge they possess to help those less experienced enjoy this hobby (myself included) and I get infuriated when someone with comparatively less experience makes this type of blanket statement.

I have never in the 18 years I've been doing this not seen a more experienced modeler stop to help the less experienced one. Its one of the things that make this such a great hobby.

Trainer or Other
 

Oooh, the battle of the "Computer Consultants". Y'all be cool now, it"s like Klumsy_kid said, people are different. Decide what's best for you and pick one. If you want to spend the money for a flight simulator it can be a big help at learning to fly. A buddy of mine practice like hell with mine and solo'ed in his 4th week.

Personally
 

I'd go with an ARF for first plane. I'm about through with my first ARF, and it's got maybe 15 hrs in it. Cat stepped through the right wing this morn. Now waiting on monokote, iron etc, which I had intended for second purchase. Sucks. Not even off the ground and wrecked! When these boys say get used to it, I guess they mean it! If I had built from kit, wifes fav furry thing would be history, and my fav furry would be off limits! Second one is kit for my no experienced .02 worth.

Trainer or Other
 

Well if it's helped anyone who read this board, its me. I think for MY first plane that I am going to go with an ARF, because I think if I were to build for a first plane, I'd be a little scared of sending it into the dirt, (like someone said before, they all end up crashing). That's fine, so once I get good, I'll probably progress to a trainer kit, and then so-on.

Trainer or Other
 

There is a saying in this hobby:

The question is not whether or not it will crash but when.


You can get an ARF trainer then when you get good with that you can progress to a more agile plane like the 4* or a stick. There are many 2nd plane options. And they come in kits and ARFs as well.

Trainer or Other
 

Me?... Get in on the ARF/Kit debate?... Nawwwww....

Well, since you asked for my opinion... (we did?)

(Yes, you did, so sit down, shut up, an listen)

Ok, I will no longer say not to get an ARF, That just get's taken the wrong way. But if you get an ARF for your first plane, I STRONGLY recommend a KIT for your second (and most of your future planes). Here are some reasons why:

Building a kit will give you building and covering skills, something that all modelers will need at some point.

Trainer kits are much easier to build than more advanced kits are. So if you start with ARF's and stay with them, by the time you're ready to try a kit, you don't want to build something easy.

Let me rephrase that: Your flying levels are such that the type of plane you want to fly is a much more difficult build.

Here's an analogy: Suppose you went to Kindergarten, and 1st grade learning reading, writing, and 'rithmatic. Then in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th grade, you just learned science, math, geography and so on without the reading and writing (i know it's ridiculous, everything is oral ok? Just follow me here)

Now, 5th grade comes along, and you decide to start doing written assignments again. But now the books are full of words that you've never seen before! And CURSIVE WRITING!!! You are trying to read a 5th grade book with first grade reading skills! Of course it's tough! So you do the obvious thing... you stop reading and writing, and you tell everyone else not to bother to learn how to do it.

That's how I feel when someone says there's no reason to build a kit.

Time involved? When my son was a youngster, I got him a Goldberg Eagle II. I took a week off from work. We got the kit on a Saturday morning, and flew it the following Friday evening.

Something else that ARF buffs fail to consider is this: Framing up a kit (IE, building it to the point where it is ready to cover) takes so little time it's ridiculous. And so much of the work involved in assembling an ARF would take much less time if the parts weren't already covered. I have found that the things that take me the most amount of time on a basic kit are the things you have to do on an ARF anyway (such as mounting engine and radio, setting up linkages etc). The only real time-saver with an ARF IMHO is that it is already covered, and that's fine if you want your plane to look like all of the others.

I promise you, that If I had a trainer kit, and 3 hours a night, I could have it ready to fly in less than 3 weeks.

Send me a kit if you don't believe me.

An ARF is a great way to get something into the air quickly, but they shouldn't replace building. If you don't have time to build fly your ARF while you're building your next one. If you can't build, go back to 2nd grade and learn. You want an ARF cause it's a good one and you like the way it flies? Fine, get it, enjoy it if you already have building skills.

But I look at it like this: I'm half Italian, and to me, buying an ARF is like buying Spaghetti Sauce in a jar.

It just ain't natural.

Trainer or Other
 

MinnFlyer,

You Gone an Dun it now!!!! :D :D

I mentioned that in an earlier post and set ghostbear off..

Can't wait to see the replies should be interesting

Trainer or Other
 

I stick by everything I said. And I didn't even bash ARF's. I think they have their place. I have even bought spaghetti sauce in a jar.

I just try not to make it a habbit, 'cause as any self-respecting Italian can tell you... it just can't compare!

Trainer or Other
 

I have no doubt you could build a kit in 3 weeks, but how long is it going to take a complete newbie to build it? You see, that IS the point in all this.

This summer I saw 3 kits brought to the field by guys who had inherited them after they had been abandoned. Needless to say, the original purchaser hasn't stuck with the hobby.

By buying an ARF I did learn the basics of model building and acquired a bunch of tools. I ALSO got flying in just 4 weeks, (I still shudder to think how long it would have taken me to get flying if I had dove into a kit).

So, now I am 1) Committed to the hobby, since flying IS as much fun as it looked, 2) Ready to spend the winter building a kit.

Surely this is as much a religious debate as anything, but I think it can be very difficult to remember how hard something was in the beginning when you have become an expert (like riding a bike). So, in my opinion, an experience modeler is not more qualified in giving ARF vs. Kit advice than a relatively successful newcomer.

In any case, free advice (mine included) is worth exactly what you paid for it.

GB

I think the Arf's are the only way to go.
 

The Easy 2 ARF goes for $100. Theres no way a new guy
can build a kit for that. Or get it to look as good, or fly
as good for that matter. Plus the 95% chance that the
month or two building project is gonna end up in a trash
bag.

I wish I had a nickle for every guy thats ever showed up
at a field....with either a new plane that he built, bought,
or an ARF....and it lasted about 10 seconds in the air ! :(

Beat the snot out of the ARF's, and used planes till you
learn how to fly....then bust out your "baby". :rolleyes:

Trainer or Other
 

I agree! I find nothing wrong with buying an ARF, either the first time, or any time. But gluing two wings together is not the same as sheeting a leading edge. You WILL aquire some building skills by assembling an ARF. Those skills won't help you when you have bashed the leading edge of your wing and need to replace 2 or 3 rib fronts. Nor will you have a pattern to work from.

Did I forget how hard it was in the beginning? I don't think so. I distinctly remember transferring those lines drawn on the paper to the balsa sheets so I could cut out the parts with a razor blade.

This is one of the reasons why I always recommend Great Planes kits. EVERY one of them is step by step with pictures for every step. A lot of people here recommend SIG kits. I think Sig makes several nice kits, But I avoid recommending them, because Sig also makes some real tough SOB's. Don't believe it? Come to my house and I'll let you cut out the stab pieces that they were so kind as to "draw" on the balsa sheets for me on my 1/4 scale Cub. That's right, the parts are not die cut. If this were my first kit, I wouldn't stay in the hobby either.

Back to my first planes... Did I make mistakes? Yes! Did they look great? Yes! There are these things called balsa filler and sandpaper that make all of the mistakes virtually disappear under the covering. Of course, why sand wood when you can buy an ARF?

Now don't get defensive, I'm not saying "don't get an ARF". I'm just saying that you will develope much needed skills by building, and that the sooner you start, the easier it will be.

And BTW Ghostbear, KUDO's on building this winter!

And Dave.... I'll bet you buy spaghetti sauce in a jar. :disappoin

Trainer or Other
 

Save yourself alot of aggravation and order the Avistar Select from Tower Hobbies. It takes about 30 minutes to have it ready to fly, aside from charging the batteries in the transmitter and plane (about 12 hours). All you need is a screwdriver , pliers and a wall socket. Take it to the nearest model airport and find the guy with the trainer cord. He's already waiting for you. At least, thats how it is at our site. Dennis (Red Bluff,ca).

Real airplanes have 2 wings and round motors..................

Trainer or Other
 

My first plane was a kit built Eagle 2.

Advantages: I built it, I understand everything about it, I know it is very well built and strong. (did I mention heavy...?). It's my bird and I'm rather proud of the finished product which I produced from a pile of flat wood. It will teach me to fly.

Disadvantages: It's my baby and I don't want to break it. My learning curve is shallow, baby steps. It takes me until the third flight of the day before I start leaving the gentle horizontal. All the "it's not if, but when" talk is for the other guy, not my bird, my pride and joy. Sure, it cost me as much or more than an ARF to build, Iwon't let anything happen to that pretty plane.

My 2nd plane is a Tiger 2 kit...I suspect it will have all of the advantages, and few of the disadvantages, it went together so fast, I didn't have time to fret over it. THAT will be a real workhorse!

Dave