Crosswind Landing
 

Any tips? I was doing quite a bit of flying today, and landing with a crosswind.. With the wind blowing a 10-15 mph, the plane was drifting with the wind, but the nose was actually tending to point into the wind (presumably the cross sectional area of the tail was pushing the tail with the wind and hence the nose into it).. Any tips?

Sachin

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

Sometimes you have to let it come in at a slight angle into the headwind and then use rudder to straighten it out about 6 feet off the ground. Not sure if thats proper but thats what seems to work for me.

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

I don'y fly at a field, so from base to final with a cross wind, i make it wide and let it drift over, but that way you have to do small aileron adjustments near the ground still. I just learned like this so i this is how i did it

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

That is called a crab and is the easiest way to do that. The only thing I disagree with in the above statement is bringing it out of the crab at 6 feet, it should be more like 6 inches to a foot.

Another way is to sideslip. To do that drop the wing that is facing into the wind and counteract the turn with only enough rudder to stop the turn. This will cause 2 things. The plane will track straight over the ground and it will also want to lose altitude quickly to which you can counteract that with power and elevator.

It's a difficult manuver as you are using all of the planes surfaces plus power to maintain the track but once mastered looks really good and is a great way to lose altitude quickly

At about 6 inches to a foot you release the rudder and ailerons and maintain the glide angle with power and elevator all the way to touchdown

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

bubbagates hit it right on the head. Pilots should learn how to use the rudder to properly land in a crosswind. Too many pilots weren't taught properly, or just don't want to spend the time to learn correctly, and it's a habit that just gets worse over the years. They will try to fly into the crosswind and try to intersect the end of the runway to land. While you can do this, you don't have any room to correct in. If you learn to slipstream and crab your plane into the wind then you don't have to "guess" and hope you hit the runway, you'll be able to fly your plane to any point for the landing. With practice you can land in a crosswind and touchdown at any spot on the runway you choose.

It's a skill that will serve you well if you take the time to learn it.

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

And to add to what RcKen has said,

not learning the proper way and landing in a crosswind by adjusting the base and downwind legs may end up you facing directly at the pits and/or other pilots and that could be really bad. A crab can do this as well but at least you are in better control in a crab.

I will always argue that the slip is the best way and most people will say that it's to advanced for a new pilot. Not really true if you are learning to use the rudder and you have probably sideslipped and did not even realize it.

For those of you with AeroFly Pro deluxe. I spent some time today recording a video showing how a sideslip works and looks using the Funtana40 that can be downloaded but I will record one with one of the stock planes as well. If you want it PM me and I'll put it into a spot that you can download it.

I do have access to G2 so I could do a video in there if you would like. In either case PM me and tell me if you have G2 or AeroFly Pro if you want it

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

thanks guys.. I would love to see a video, no G2 or AeroFly though.

Sachin

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

Ok, my turn to add to bubbagates comments. Guess we're gonna tag team this subject. :D

I disagree. It's like any other skill that is taught to a new student. They will learn it if you teach it to them. If you don't teach them the skill, then they will learn bad habits that they may never "un-learn". How many pilots have you seen go through their whole life doing things "wrong" or badly because that is what they learned when training, and never took the time to learn the correct way. If you teach a student correctly the first time you don't have to worry if they can pick the skills up later, they have them the first time.

Landing in a crosswind is a skill that I think every student should have. In fact, I won't solo a student until they have landed in a crosswind and shown that they can control the plane in the crosswind.

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

i cant stress enough how important rudder and throttle management is to land a plane in all types of winds including cross winds.

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

Yall are talking about some STRONG winds, I have landed in a crosswind, but then again i dont fly in winds over 10

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

Here is a cool video that also shows a ton of sideslipping in the first 5 minutes (The red Extra) The first slip is at one minute 18 seconds

http://www.krcs748.com/FAI_WGP_2002.wmv

Please right click and save as to save my bandwidth... it's 19Mb

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

OK Ken, my turn,

you forgot the last half of that quote where I say "Not really true if you are learning to use the rudder and you have probably sideslipped and did not even realize it" but you did put it a lot better that I did.

I agree that every student should learn proper use of the rudder and you will be surprised just how much more fun flying will be as you will have a skill that really does make you a better pilot.

Your turn Ken :D:D:D

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

Bubba,
My pleasure.

No, we aren't talking about "strong" winds. we are talking about ALL crosswinds. You need to know how to land in them no matter what strength. You have landed in a crosswind yes, but you have been lucky. As we said above, you are bringing the plane in with the wind and you are hoping that you make it to the runway this way. But what if you get a gust that blows you plane a bit more sideways so you aren't going to cross the end of the runway? what are you going to do? If you knew the proper way to handle a crosswind the answer is easy, you sideslip using the rudder to re-align yourself with the runway. Excuses can be made as to why you don't need to know how to land like this, but the plain truth is that you just need to learn how to do this. It is a basic part of flying that needs to be learn in order to know how to fly. There is a huge amount of flying that you are missing out on because of not knowing how to use the rudder properly. You can go on without learning how to use your rudder in precision flying, but you're missing out. It's a huge part of knowing how to tell the plane to do what you want it to, and not you always chasing the plane. It will make you a better pilot, trust me on this one. As an instructor I know what I am talking about here, just learn to use your rudder.

You have to consider where you live too. What you consider "strong" wind is a light breeze where I live. If you don't fly with winds over 10 mph then you wouldn't fly very often here in Oklahoma where we fly all the time with winds of 15+ mph. If you don't learn to fly in the wind you can find yourself being grounded a lot of times. Heck, here in SW Oklahoma we live for "wind days", those days with the wind blowing 30+ straight down the runway. You don't know what fun flying can be until you do a completely vertical landing with absolutely no forward motion at all, and you can only do this in high winds!!!

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

RCken, one day me and the instructor were hangin out and we went out on a day where we could pretty much hover in the wind, hints the signature

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

I'll try to sum all of this up...

Learning to use the rudder is important
Not using the rudder can and will get you into trouble especially when you go to scale airplanes like Mustangs, and especially Cubs as you MUST coordinate your turns with the rudder or you will snap out just doing a simple 45 degreee banked turn. A Cub will try to roll over on it's back everytime if you do not use the rudder.
When you move to taildraggers rudder control is a must
When you start swinging 16 inch props you will need to counteract torque with rudder.

You are already using the rudder during takeoff to keep the takeoff roll straight. The exception to this is a tri-gear plane with nose wheel steering, you still are using the rudder but to steer on the ground, if you are not trying to keep you takeoff roll straight and just letting the plane go wherever it wants then you need more training.

Now I am NOT saying this to pick on any one person but as an instructor I have seen/heard all of the above.

I have even lost students to other instructors that do not teach rudder control because "It's too hard", yes I have heard that. We do not require the training for the use of the rudder but I always try to get my students to learn it.

As Ken said, learning to use the rudder properly will always make yopu a much better and most of all safer pilot

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

bubba, thanks for that link. I had seen that vid, but didn't know that was what it was. I wish i could toss my Model plane around like that. That guys fave is funny

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

Bubba,
Thank you for summing it all up, and I can't agree more.

Newb,
Learn to use the rudder and you can "toss" the plane around like that too. I've been flying for 9 years and sometimes I'm still amazed at how much the rudder can help you out in flying.

Hope this helps.

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

I used to think that I could pull a nice sideslip until I saw Minnflyers dad do one a while back. He was about 100 feet up with a J3 Cub and about to over shoot the run way or so I thought, when he executed the purrtiest slip I have ever seen and not only made the runway but landed in the first 1/3 of it. SU-weet! And I thought Minnflyer was old, but his dad is older than dirt:D:D. That man still schooled me!

Hey Minnflyer, is your dad coming up this year? When?

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

While I absolutely agree with the above posts, I want to add a cautionary note. Not all models behave well in a slip. Many models will either pitch up (toward the canopy), or pitch down (toward the belly) in a slip or knife edge. This is just one more complication that a beginner must manage, and if he/she is trying out their first slip near the ground it could be that last "slip" that the model makes.

Practice this stuff at a safe height & be prepared for some bizarre behaviour.

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

I quote myself from August of last year

Ok guys t he three methods of landing crosswind.

ONE
The its a hobby and let's keep this as simple as possible method. On final,on the extended centerline of the runway, allow the airplane to crab, wings level into the wind to maintain a ground track on the extended centerline of the runway. Now, except for gusts, all you have to worry about is pitch and power to land on the centerline of the runway, just as if there were no crosswind at all. OMG! you're going to land in a CRAB! The ONLY reason a 1:1 airplane aligns with the runway in the first place is to keep from tearing the landing gear out from excessive sideload. WE don't have that problem on our models. Once the mains are down and the wing is no longer flying, now add rudder to stay on the centerline of the runway.

TWO
Copy the 1:1 airliner method. Again on final,on the extended centerline of the runway, allow the airplane to crab, wings level into the wind to maintain a ground track on the extended centerline of the runway. Now, except for gusts, all you have to worry about is pitch and power to land on the centerline of the runway, just as if there were no crosswind at all, except, just before touch down you add or kick in enough rudder to align with the runway. In a heavy crosswind you MAY add just a touch of opposite aileron to roll in to the prevailing wind to keep the airplane from drifting to the downwind side of the runway. This method is taught to almost ALL 1:1 scale pilots because it is the easiest to do when flying an instrument approach, and it is the most comfortable to the passengers.

THREE
The let's see how difficult and masochistic we can make this, and raise the probability of a stall spin crash on final, increase the rate of decent and see if we can cartwheel by hitting the wingtip first method. Again on final,on the extended centerline of the runway, this time yaw the airplane away from the prevailing wind with the rudder. This will cause the ground track to now slide downwind. Now add opposite aileron to slip the airplane back into the prevailing wind and use the canted lift off the wing to pull the airplane back onto the ground track on the extended centerline of the runway. So, far from the end of the runway, you're flying OLD SCHOOL of what is in essence a side slip to maintain runway centerline. Now you are low, slow and you already have the cross controlled inputs to start a beautiful one turn spin to a crash short of the runway. If you do make it to the runway hold the crab/ cross control into the flair and land on the up wind wheel, then slowly let all of this out till you track down the centerline. In a full scale airplane this is an un coordinated condition and is guaranteed to make your passengers very uncomfortable, if not down right scared.

Which makes more sense to you?

I'm sorry, y'all can advocate a long slip down final till the cows come home, it is no longer done that way in full scale because it is un coordinted flight, and you are raising the danger of loosing the plane to a low stall-spin.
YES practice slips to learn how to increas drag to get a plane quickly down over a tree line but for heavens sake take the simple method in landing; crab to maintain the needed groudnd track and touch down that way.

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

Way to go Major. I totally agree.......

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

Major, I have to strongly disagree with you. I rarely if ever use a crab on final; I use a sideslip, mostly because it is a more precise maneuver, and you are already lined up with the runway centerline as you cross the threshold. My primary instructor taught me to do this, and also to use a forward slip if necessary to bleed off altitude. Crabs are fine, but IMHO are a much less advanced maneuver. We need to differentiate between a sideslip, which is much more gentle than a forward slip, and a forward slip, which is used to rapidly bleed off altitude. They both become one and the same with a crosswind. Neither condition is unsafe if performed properly, and they are both very useful. BTW, honestly unless your passenger is a fellow pilot, they will never know the difference.

You said:



Are you a full-scale pilot? If so, then you need a new checkride, because my FAA examiner required that I sideslip and perform a forward slip to landing as a part of my Private Pilot checkride- and it is still definitely taught in the schools and advocated by flight instructors nationwide! There is a reason that full scale aircraft have throttles and Airspeed Indicators, so that the pilot doesn't get into a deadly situation by being low and underspeed- whereas you can be just as up the creek by crossing the runway threshold and having your nose pointing at the tiedowns. And how about the fact that even if you ride the crab all the way down, and "kick it out" at 10 ft, you still have to slip a bit to compensate for the crosswind!

Now granted, not all of this is applicable to model planes, which generally allow for a lot more slop in technique. I just think that if you value your model (or your life and that of your passengers if you're out in the 172 or whatever), then it behooves you to learn and become proficient with every flight mode possible. The only source of fear is ignorance- and besides, its FUN!!:D:D

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

Bubba - thanks for the video.. They do things full scale that I'm afraid to even try in r/c.. got more like it?

Sachin

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

Yeah, you must have a side slip to get your full license. Also, I think i will learn to do it after reading this thread more thorugh Good thread

RE: Crosswind Landing
 

Sorry, that's all I have that shows a slip in such detail but a search using google may turn up more. If you or anyone else finds any, please let me know.

Once you get some time in flying you will be able to do pretty much all you saw in the video. It takes practice, lots of practice. But it's all fun :D