Good first kit.
 

Hi. Im soloing my pilot, and i am planning to keep on doing it, but meanwhile, after a good day of work, i would like to settle down and build my first kit. I need this because in the future i know i will need the skills again and its just no the same thing flying a kit or an arf. So whats a good kit, after the trainer?

Experiences:

TRainer (RTF, nothing really to do here)

GLider (ARF, my first arf, took me a while but pulled it through)

FIrst kit? Possibly a four star, i need something that has interlocking parts, to make it a smooth sailing kit. I would like this to be a project for my dad and i, (bonding). Note that i am willing to build kits because thats how most jets come that way:)

Michal

RE: Good first kit.
 

A lot will depend on your flying ability AND the amount of time and effort you want to put into a kit.

The 4* is a good choice for a kit if you feel you are ready to handle a low wing plane.

If you are still a little unsure of your flying skills AND/OR want to put the time in to building a KIT, get a Kadet or Signorita.

These are high wing very docile flyers that are stick built. You cut the sticks to length and build the plane directly over the plans.

FWIW - The Kadet or Signorita will provide you with many skills for the "more intense" kits later on, plus a "trainer" type plane is always nice to have on hand - especially for getting the "cobwebs" out in the spring. :D

RE: Good first kit.
 

Well i got a trainer, so i guess ill be building something new. A piper cub however can be a good start, right?

RE: Good first kit.
 

My first kit was a Great Planes PT-60. I definitely recommend it as a first build, but you might not want to build a trainer since you already have one.

For a first build you probably want something with 'slab' sides rather than a 'stick' structure. Even with interlocking parts you have to be sure to get everything straight.

I'm still a novice builder. I've been working on kit number 2 for a year. It is a Tower Hobbies Uproar 60. It's a fairly simple kit also but harder than my trainer due to the way the wings install and the fact that the tail feathers and ailerons are just sticks that you cut, fit, and glue together on top of the plans.

I think, based on a lot of posts here and from talking to people at the club, the four star should be a good first kit if you don't want to build a trainer. I think people who have built a lot sometimes forget how intimidating it is to open that box and see a pile of lumber. If not for the artwork you'd never convince me a plane was hiding in all that wood.

RE: Good first kit.
 

I built the Bruce Tharp (BTE Models) Venture .60 as my second kit (first was an LT-40 trainer) and the Venture would make an excellent first kit. I have since bought the Four Star .40 kit for pilon racing that has started up in my area and after looking over the parts and instructions I would say the Venture is easier than the Four Star to build. The Venture has a lot of nicely pre-sanded pieces that the Four Star leaves for the builder to complete. The Venture also looks much nicer IMO.

By the way, Bruce Tharp designed the Four Star .40 and 1.20 while he worked at Sig. He left and started his own company where the Venture was his first offering. If you are interested follow the link below...

http://www.btemodels.com/

If my suggestion doesn't strike your interest, you may want to give us a little more detail about what interests you. Is there a particular engine size you had in mind? Are you looking for a high wing, low wing, etc...

BTW, unless you are very comfortable with taildraggers, be warned if you are considering a Cub - although a Cub is a nice flying plane in the air, takeoffs and landings can be tricky due to the narrow gear. A Cub is more of an intermediate to advanced level plane for this reason.

FlyerBry

RE: Good first kit.
 

You might want to consider the [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFHG4&P=0]Great Planes Rapture Kit[/link]
They claim that it is a good plane to learn flying a low wing. I am building this plane and I found it easy. It is also my first build.
Currently I am at the covering stage so I can't verify how it flies. Give me some time and I'll let you know.

RE: Good first kit.
 

Piper Cubs appear to be docile and one would think they would be an easy flier. However, their ground handling creates challenges for takeoff and landing. They also have a few quirks when flying. I'd say get experience with at least one tail dragger that's not as challenging before you try a Cub.

RE: Good first kit.
 

Piper chuck,
I hate to dissagreee, but i have taxied a pyper and their ground handling isn't bad at all. IT was a GP .40 size. I really don't care how a plane does on the ground anyway, because planes fly they don't roll on the ground :D

RE: Good first kit.
 

Chuck is giving you good advice. The Cub can be a handful, especially for learning pilots.

I would agree with recommendations previously offered and I would add the Great Planes EZ Sport. The EZ is easy to build, is very rugged, flies very well and will do all the non 3-D maneuvers.

DaveB

RE: Good first kit.
 

I am building a 4* for the local pylon races and it's no big deal building one. The 4*60 which was designed later is probabily a little easier to build, but its like debating which sumo wrestler is the fatest. Other good easy building second planes are the Goldberg Tigers, Great Planes Rapture and Venture. A little cub might be a small pain to take off but I big one would be a piece of cake. I fly a big 90" Super Decathalon and it's gorund handling is better than any of the sport planes I have owned.

RE: Good first kit.
 

I also recommend staying away from the Cub untill you become a more proficient pilot. Do a search here on the Cub and you can read countless posts about how poorly they handle on the ground. They are NOT as easy to fly as it would appear from looking at one.

First build--after a solo---thats a tough one. You don't want another trainer.

Any of the Sig 4* kits is a good one. The 4*60 is REALLY nice. It's a bit bigger--more intimidating---but it's easy to build and easy to fly. You can have a ball with a 4*60.

I bought an LT-40 KIT that had been built by an experienced builder. Thats what I learned to fly on.

Second plane--I bought a Kadet Senior--with 78" wingspan and I built that with a few modifications. I put a Thunder Tiger .91 4-stroke on it:D. I added ailerons into the wings. I reduced the dihedrahl to about 1.5" total--and I made it a taildragger.

I had so much darn fun with that plane---it has just silly. It really teaches you a lot about building. Cutting and mitering all those sticks may seem tedious, but you'll be rewarded with a lightweight plane.

Build an LT-40 or an LT-25 and but a big engine on it. For an LT-40, a 60 size engine will make it crazy and for an LT-25 a 40 or 46 will scare you to death. Believe it or not---you can do rolling circles with an LT-40. You can do hammerheads--snaps--knife-edge flight--spins--and hovers. An LT-40 will do every aerobatic maneuver that you can throw at it--it just won't do it fast or pretty--like a big scale Extra or Cap. But--they will do aerobatics.

A Sig 4* is a very good choice. On the 60 size--I'd use a .60 2-stroke or a .91 4-stroke for power.

The Goldberg Tiger 2 kit is a nice one. I'm not really recommending it as a second plane--but if your daring and your willing to accpet that it might not last long--then you could tackle it. It has an interlocking fuselage. So, it's easy to sand. It is a low-wing with a fully symetrical airfoil. It's a lot of plane for your 2nd one--but it's a good kit to build. Maybe buy it and built it. Fly it later on as your 3rd plane???

Don't be too quick to get away from the trainer. Too many guys solo and then immediatly want to throw the trainer up into the rafters and move up to a fully symetrical low wing. Thats not really a good idea. Your--most likely--just setting yourself up for a crash and a dissapointment.

I STILL have an LT-40. I modified it a lot--to suite my flying style. It's got a TH .75 engine. It's got flaps. It's a taildragger. It's got landing gear mounts for floats and skis. And I took some of the dihedrahl out of the wing. It's a lot of fun to toss around or maybe just loaf around. It's an absolute hoot on the snow with skis or floats and in the summer---after the lakes thaw out--I run it on floats. Thats a blast.

I'll always have a trainer in my hanger. They are great for that first flight of the season--kinda something to get your thumbs tuned up again after a long winter.

My advice is to buld a 4* and fly your trainer untill you can do all kinds of aerobatics with it and never get lost or disoriented while flying it hard. When you can do a rolling circle with your trainer--or an inverted pass 4' off the runway without screwing up or bruising your kneecaps from shaking too bad---then move up to your 4*.

RE: Good first kit.
 

Whether or not a plane taxis well has little to do with it's takeoff and landing characteristics and nothing to do with it's flying manners. Piper Chuck gave good advice as usual. A plane with a wider main gear spacing would usually be better handling if you want a tail dragger.

RE: Good first kit.
 

Chad, there's a significant difference between making the plane go in circles on the ground versus keeping it in a straight line until it's fast enough to take off. Most planes are easy to control during taxi. People who don't know how to handle Cubs and other short high wings often end up doing a circle (ground loop) during the takeoff run. This is true for full scale as well as models. Another common error is to fail to let off the elevator as it comes up to speed, resulting in taking off too early. This is usually followed by a low altitude snap roll, which ends early when the plane makes contact with the runway.

RE: Good first kit.
 

Chuck is right.

As I said before--do a search here on the Cub and you can read posts about the poor ground handling untill your eyes bug out.

Sure--there are a couple Cub kits out there that are reasonable on the runway. Thats not to say they are EASY. I said reasonable. And thats mainly for an experienced pilot--who is proficient at using the rudder and ailerons on both take-off and landings.

Generally speaking--a Cub is NOT what you want to be building for your second plane. You'll just be dissapointed and most likely--you'll put many hours and lots of sweat into it---only to smack it--a lot sooner than you'd like.

Fly your trainer untill you can do anything with it. They are all aerobatic. You just gotta get your thumbs in shape in order to realize the potential of a trainer.

Build as many kits as you want. Kit building is good for the soul. But--realize your own limits and don't try flying something that your not ready for. you can build a 25% P-51 Mustang if you want. Just realize your own skills and don't jump into it before your really ready. This is where being HONEST with YOURSELF really comes into play. Do I have the skils to fly it? I built it--but can I FLY it?

I'm scratch-building a PBY Catalina from plans right now. Am I ready to fly it? Technically--yes. I'm a good pilot and could handle it. Mentally--I'm scared to death of it, because I've never flown one and I've got so much time and effort invested in it. Remember--I've been flying for 7 years. I've flown the 4* planes and I've flown Giant Scale Caps and Extras and all that stuff. I'm building a Carden 30% Cap 232 right now--and I'm not scared of it at all. But the PBY with multiple engines and the fact that I had to cut all the pieces with a jigsaw and sand them with a palm sander---well--I'm scared to crash it.

Just take your time. I get the impression that your a young man--because you mentioned bonding with your father over the building process. You got the rest of your life to improve your piloting skils and build wild and outrageous planes.

Take it easy and progress at a reasonable rate with your planes and skills. The more kits you build and fly---the better you will be as both a pilot and a builder. There's no reason to be impatient and rush into something that will just dissapoint you after months of hard work that you spent building it.

You got lots of time. Build a 4*60 with a 60-90 engine and fly it like crazy. Build a Kadet Senior and modify it with barndoor ailerons and flaps. You will learn something with every kit that you build---and that makes the next kit better and easier to build.

I'm going into town next week to buy a 4*120 for myself. Lots of guys would shake their heads at the thought of building a sport plane with a semi-symetrical wing---because they've progressed to 35% scale Extras with 100cc engines. But--IMO--I can have just as much fun flying a 4*120 as the 30% Cap.

There's no shame--or loss of pride in building something thats not as HOT as the last one. You don't have to continually build bigger and faster and more aerobatic planes. You can always build a trainer or a 4*--if you want. They all fly well and are enjoyable to play with.

There are days when I don't WANT to fly my big planes. So- I drag out an old 40 size Super Sportster or my LT-40 and I have a blast just relaxing with them.

RE: Good first kit.
 

Hi Samolot,

A good first kit is most any kit made by SIG. I have done 2 of there Something Extra one on glow and the other electric and both went together pretty fast. I agree with all of the above posts with the exception of a Cub. A cub is a great looking plane but it does require more control coordination both on the ground and in the air than most any other plane.

With the narrow main gear track they can become "tippy" on the takeoff roll and on landing. Just taxiing around is not much of a problem. They also are excellent float and ski planes as well as glider towing. Basically most any 40 size and larger Cub will require coordinated use of the rudder in a turn.

You may have heard of adverse yaw. If not what it means is when you use the ailerons to start your turn the plane will actually start to turn the other direction just for a brief second. The problem comes in when you see the turn going the "wrong way" and you add more aileron, there by adding to the adverse yaw and once the plane starts to roll in the right direction now you have too much aileron and if you are not quick enough you can very quickly end up rolling the plane on it's back and Cubs do not like to be on there backs.

Almost all other models have the adverse yaw engineered out of them so you never really see it.

I have flown my far share of cubs and they are loaded with adverse yaw. It's real noticeable so to counteract the yaw rudder is used. Most people mix this out with the transmitter so all they have to do is use the ailerons and the rudder automatically moves with the ailerons.

I am not saying that you cannot fly a Cub. All I am saying Cubs need a little more control usage that you may not be ready for. It's easy to get ready for a Cub by using the rudder with every turn you do on whatever you are flying now.

It's simple, to make a right turn, move both right and left stick to the right, but, with the left stick only a very little amount is needed.

You will notice 2 things right away, the plane will roll into the turn much faster (so be ready for it) and the turn will actually look better. I almost forgot. Once the turn starts, you can release the rudder. Do not hold it all the way through the turn or you will find you need opposite aileron to correct the roll the rudder is causing.

This is very good practice even if you do not get a Cub. You can start to learn to use the rudder right now. Believe it or not, most experienced pilots will tell you that the rudder is probably considered to be the most powerful control surface. You use it to help steer on the ground, it alone can turn the plane (known as a rudder turn). It's the main surface in a kinfe Edge, the Stall turn or hammerhead as some people call it and is used constantly in 3D flight modes.

Rudder turns are also a good way to learn to use all of the controls at the same time. Get up good and high and instead of using your right stick to turn the plane, use your left stick. Now when the plane starts turning use the right stick to keep the wings level. You will need opposite right stick so in a right rudder turn, you will be using left on the right stick.

this all sounds hard but with practice it gets easy fast and will make you a much better pilot as now you will become comfortable with the left stick.

Sorry I went off into a ground school lesson there. If you are ready for a low wing Kit then as far as SIG is concerned any one of the 4 Star kits. The Something Extra is pretty aerobatic and on low rates is a docile plane, but can be a handful. The high wing rascals I hear are really good and have flown the 110 inch Rascal with a G26 Zenoah gas engine and it was a blast to fly, nice and aerobatic and will slow to a walking pace. Now there are smaller versions, but I like BIG planes.

I have never done one but I here Goldberg and Great Planes kits are also pretty good and I understand that they are all laser cut and pretty much all are interlocking nowadays.

Good luck and keep us informed [sm=thumbup.gif]

RE: Good first kit.
 

I own a 4* 60 for this very reason and feel exactly the same as you do Rcpilet. I love my Giant scale stuff but there is nothing like putting the 4* up and just flying around. Touch and goes are my thing with it. I've been know to burn several tanks in one day just shooting them with the goal of hitting the same spot everytime. Inverted flight is another thing I do with it since it's actually harder than a fully symetrical wing

RE: Good first kit.
 

Yeah, i would really like all my kits to be laser cut so idont need to modify anything to get off to a good start. I like the Great PLanes kits as they look good and supposadly build great. I really dont know what type of flying i want to do. First it was jets, then wwii warbirds, then 3d, THERE JUST SO MUCH :) But i think i like building the most. Doesnt matter what. I live in a cramped apartement, but i manage. I like anything to do with the airforce after reading the article in MOdel Aviation on how a m an buiklt a twin engined, transprter, i think. THats what my father read to out of boredom and he proposed the idae of a kit build. Ill do it. I just still need to fing a good kit. The 4* is a nice plane, the Tiger II is a nice plane, the Great Planes Rapture Kit is a nice plane, just so much to choose from. Dont worry about me choosing something out of my league, i know what im capable of flying, its what im capable of building that im worried about!

RE: Good first kit.
 

Samolot,

Naw...I'm not concerned with you at all. I am sorry about the flying lesson I gave in my previous post. guess I was just trying to give you another thing to practice. I definitely understand about having to decide. So many planes, so little money, not enough room and you want them all. It will drive you NUTS [sm=bananahead.gif]

I must have changed my mind 20 different times while I was learning. I, like you, never went beyond my abilities but I finally ended up with a mix. I have a couple of biplanes because I love the look (Wildhare Ultimate and a Great Planes Super Stearman), I have a couple of really precise aerobats (Kange Cap232-120 and the Great Planes Gene Soucy Extra), a 4*60 to play with, and I just bought both the P-40 Warhawk and the Miss America P-51 Mustang from Hangar-9.

I'm not much of a warbird fan although I do love the look. The 2 Hangar-9 planes are more for my dad.

Anyway. Once you decide on a kit let us know, I know I would follow it with great interest [sm=thumbup.gif]

Have a great holiday weekend and that also goes for everyone else :D

RE: Good first kit.
 

sig somethin extra easy first kit fun with low rates wild with high rates!!:D

RE: Good first kit.
 

You know what, the stability of the P-38 Profile Kit form Great PLAnes in its movy is really nice, how is it?

RE: Good first kit.
 

OK. I have one question that i have been debating around in my head. Is it REALLY worth building a kit? I mean once youve completed it, you like it so much, that if you crash it, then you hate the hobby. So which is really better, ARF, or KIT?

RE: Good first kit.
 

Samalot,
Yeah, it can hurt when a plane you built crashes. But you tend to be more careful with a plane you built, which IMHO will make you a better pilot. In these ARF/RTF days it's so easy to get another plane back in the air quickly after flying that a lot of pilots just get in the air and turn loose, and if they crash the plane "oh well." But the plane you build, you are going to "baby" it until you really get a feel for how it flies and reacts. You tend to avoid maneuvers that are above your skill level, and more than the plane can handle.

Now for something you can't get with any ARF, pride. When you see the plane that you built in the air you get filled with a sense of pride. You have no idea how good it feels to put your plane down in the pits and here everybody "ohhh" and "awww" over your plane.

I've had one plane that I build 7 years now. There is no reason a built plane can't last for awhile.

Hope this helps.

RE: Good first kit.
 

Yup, ive decided what i want to get. I think ill get the Great PLanes P-38 Proflie. 90 bucks. Now, what are the most common used tools you will need to build a kit?

RE: Good first kit.
 

Thin and thick CA
Exacto Knife.
a good work table to pin your stuff down to.
and expoxy 6 and 30 minute.

Theres more i am forgetting, so someone please put it on there.

RE: Good first kit.
 

You've gone from a Piper Cub to an Uproar, and now to a twin? The Uproar might have been possible if you kept the throws small. I've got one. It can be flown very slow, but it totally lacks any of the self correcting tendencies your trainer has. It will go where you tell it, and keep going there till you tell it to go somewhere else. This is not necessarily the best choice for a second plane. On to the twin. ABSOLUTELY NO! The complexity of getting the plane setup correctly, and keeping 2 engines running creates a plane that's not a good choice for a second plane. There are lots of experienced pilots who would not even take on a twin.

What about all the kits people have already suggested to you?