fire
 

Last nite I was starting my plane , the hose blew off of the electric fuel pump and some how fuel must of gotten inside the electrics and before you knew it everything went up in flames. the field box started on fire, and the fuel pump wouldn't stop pumping the fuel. The battery melted and the transmiter melted also . A all purpose fire extingisher didn't touch it. I told my daughter to run away in case the fuel can would explode, it didn't thank God, the can was almost full when i started (15% glow fuel)I ran a got the garden hose and started to flooded everything with water, and with that I finally put out the fire. This all happened in about 3-4 mins., the can was completely empty when the fire was put out. The fuel pump, and eveything that had plastic on it and everything else inside the fieldbox was a total lost. But when the fire first started, I grabbed the plane and saved it. But what I did noticed is that one of the forward wheels melted on the plane. So now when I go to purchase new equipment I will get a hand crank fuel pump and my fuel can will not be attached to the field box. Also I would like to warn every one not to try starting a plane in the garage, house, shop, or basement. Should keep a fire extingrisher handy at all times. Thanks for reading this thread. Anyone else have this experience?

RE: fire
 

Good advice, and sorry for your loss. At least the plane was saved. [sm=thumbup.gif] Along with the fire hazard of starting a plane in a contained area, you also get the CO2 fumes and get all light headed then pass out...

Also, a foam fire extinguiser is best (I think) for putting out fuel fires, although at this small of a scale, water is sufficient enough.

RE: fire
 

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I use a hand pump. Just like reeling in a fish. I can fuel up my planes just about as fast as the electric pumps can. Matter of fact, me and another guy in the club are the only ones that use a hand pump. Everyone else uses electric ones.

Dave...

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Great story. I am a hand pump guy too.[8D]

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You should file a claim with the manufacturer, or importer, of the electric pump. This is a dangerous situation, and should not have happened.

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Sorry to hear that man. I use all mechanical except my glow plug and never start when i am near a fuel can. I mostly use a chicken stick unless my engine is being an idiot. (which i prop it almost 99% of the time. )

RE: fire
 

"You should file a claim" <--- BAD BAD BAD

Here's the deal, we voluntarily play with *very* flamable fuels and electrics with and around each other...therefore we accept responsibility when something breaks...perfect example of life in an overly litigious society.... LET IT GO

Explain to me how the importer is to blame? or the person that sold it? or even the manufactuerer....do we blame the pump people or the hose people (the host failed, not the pump), or the gas people...or the ones who made the fire extinguisher that didnt suit this application?

People need to realize that crap happens, and most of the time...nobody is a fault...

I was talking to a gentleman just 3 days ago that has lost his HOUSE AND CARS to pay for a lawsuit because a kid climbed an 8ft fence and drowned in his pool when he wasnt home....another great example....

Madman, you seem to have the right attitude..."stuff happens" and your right...it sucks that it killed your TX...but i think that anyone would understand that Nitromethane might act up if you expose it to an open spark (turn on one of those pumps in the dark, you can see the light from the sparks in the motors), and its good that your not moneyhungry or overzealous about finding a single entity to blame, and have not forgone placing a little blame on yourself, good man....

RE: fire
 

I don't think Piper Chuck is advocating a lawsuit. Just tell the manufactures that you had a problem, talk to them. Maybe other people are having similar problems. Just maybe something is defective and the design needs to be changed. And by the way, if they know of any defect they might own up to it and replace your Xmitter.

26 years of electric fuel pumps, and one has never burst into flames for me. Something was wrong. Maybe it was just your fault. If so fine. Live and learn. But manufacturers deserve some feedback. They need feedback. You can't expect everyone to build the perfect mouse trap on the first try.

It isn't taboo to call them up and complain. This is America, you know, freedom of speech and all that other stuff. Getting a refund is not unreasonable. GOOD GOOD GOOD

RE: fire
 

Wrong, wrong, wrong.
No, here's the deal. We should accept responsibility if WE do something wrong. If the manufacturer messes up and makes a dangerous product then THEY should be held accountable.
A pump that is prone to catch on fire in the presence of the fuel it's supposed to handle is faulty and dangerous. It should be designed in a manner that fuel cannot get to a place where it will ignite. This is a really simple concept.

The person who encountered this problem owes it to himself and everyone else to report it to the importer. First so he can be compensated for the things he lost due to the faulty product. Note, I'm not advocating pain and suffering, just replacement of the stuff he lost due to the faulty product. And second (if the importer has any ethics), so the importer is aware that there's a problem with the product.
That's fine, if nobody's at faulty, end of story. That's not the case here. There's an unsafe product that exposes people to danger. Sweeping it under the carpet is not the answer.
No, a completely different example.
What you just described is scary. Open sparking in the presence of fuel is an accident waiting to happen. Open sparking is acceptable on a water pump, but not a fuel pump. If these pumps are really that bad, they should be taken off the market. This isn't a case of being money hungry, as it seems you are hinting, it's forcing manufacturers to be responsible, holding them accountable for unsafe products, and taking the steps necessary to get unsafe products off the market so other people don't have to suffer losses from them.

RE: fire
 

You are using an electrical item in the presence of FUEL...

The pump acted as it should have...an isolated (completely sealed) electric motor will burn up quick, easily in the time it takes to fill a tank...

The problem he described has nothing to do with the pump malfunctioning, it had to do with the line comming off of the pump (can be caused by many things, not on tight, blocked vent in fuel tank causing pressure buildup, deteriation of the line from prolonged fuel exposure, among others)

Its like a hair-drying in a bathtub...they have to put that little stciker on there because people are dumb and want to sue over crap like that....

The only sure fire way to create a fireproof (electric) pump is to isolate the motor away from the pump through gears or linkages...would be heavy, expencive, and would not be practical...

And yo call it a dangerous product.....DUH....its EXPLOSIVE/COMBUSTABLE FUEL....by its intended purpose, it is a dangerous product...

Now, If...and its a slight If....the pump had broken internally and allowed fuel to get to the motor itself, then MAYBE there would be cause to ask for ANY damages...but the thing is, im sure they make tons and tons of his particular pump, and im sure that very few have had any problems, therefore there is no neglect on the part of the manufacturer/importer, and there is no call for damages...if a pump were to break internally and catch fire...if its such an isolated incident, it would be chocked up to mishandling by the user more than the manufacturer...

RE: fire
 

i would still raise the issue up before the manufacturer. if nothing else it will give there technical department another instance of a possible malfunction to add to there data pool.

this nitro fuel is dangerous, but thank God that was not gas. I had a gas can go off in my hand one day. i avoided a trip to the emergency room because i had a nomex blanket (dad was a diesel mechanic.....i sitll have that) over the arm i was pooring it with(i was dumping it on a fire.......i stopped after that!!!!). that sucker went so fast it blew me off my feet, and im a big old boy(at that point i would have been 5'11 to 6'0 and about 250....). i think im fixing to attach a potentiometer somewere inline to regulate the fuel flow on my pump down. i keep shooting myself by accident

RE: fire
 

There are plenty of examples of sealed electric motors that are safe to use in the presence of flamable liquids. Made correctly, they would not burn up in the time it takes to fill the tank.
No, it's not at all "like a hair drier in a bathtub". Hair driers are not made to operate in a bathtub. Fuel pumps are (supposed to be) made to operate near fuel. And who said anything about a suit? I wish you guys would get over this suit thing and listen to what's being said. The company should know there's a problem with the product. This isn't about someone trying to make a quick buck over a defective product, it's about reporting and being compensated for a defect.
I think you're overstating the difficulty of solving this problem.
It makes no sense for the person who experienced this loss to just say "oh well, fuel is dangerous" and accept the loss. Fuel pumps should NOT catch on fire. When this kind of problem happens with a car, defect leading to fire, the manufacturers issue safety recalls.

To madmanmikie, ignore what these people are saying. Contrary to what they say, nobody should have to fear that a fuel pump is going to lead to a fire. If you haven't thrown the pump away already, take some pics of it and the stuff you lost and then send the remains of the pump to the importer (Hangar 9, Hobbico, etc) with a polite letter describing what happened, and what you lost. Include an itemized list of the loss and what they cost and ask them to compensate you for your loss and to investigate the safety of their product. Send a copy of the letter to the author of the MA Safety Comes First column, Dave Gee at Box 7081, Van Nuys CA 91409, so others can be warned of this problem.

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txaggie08 - YOU WERE DUMPING GAS ON A BURNING FIRE FROM A CAN??? WHAT ON EARTH WERE YOU THINKING? You could have been on a trip to the morgue not a hospital. And methanol fires are more dangerous than gas fires in some ways because they burn invisibly. You can see them in our fuel because of the oil and nitro mix. Ever seen an Indy car fire? You can watch the fire suits (nomex) burning without any visible flames.

RE: fire
 

Are we all assuming that when madmanmikie said "fuel must of gotten inside the electrics" that he meant inside the motor/pump? Could he have meant some other electrics such as the power panel. He has not re-posted here since the original. If he did mean the motor the extinguisher was probably ineffective because he failed to remove the ignition source (the presumed sparking motor) and the fuel source. The flame was self feeding and reigniting? I admit that he probably meant the pump motor but he was not absolutely clear.

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which pump?

Glad you are OK...

RE: fire
 

yeah, but gas explodes.....trust me gas explodes bad.

i was ALOT younger then, and was a complete idiot with thhe stuff. that little incident taught me a lesson about doing that thouhg. i still use gass to lite fires, but i poor it on BEFORE its lit then throw a burning torch at it from a reasonable distance....

RE: fire
 

I've been using an electric pump for a few years now, I never had any problems

RE: fire
 

maybe he forgot to tell everyone that he was smoking while refueling.. Are we getting the full story people? never heard anything of a fuel fire due to electronics. 25 yrs of R/C never one accident
sorry to hear the loss!
by the way, do people kill people or guns kill people?

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people kill people

if guns kill people, my pencil misspells words

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Husbands who come home early kill people...

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ooooh someone else was watching CS tonight lol......


but in all seriousness, i agree with old larry on this one

RE: fire
 

I too have brushed with fire on my pump as well. I was finished fueling and went to hit power switch and bumped the reverse switch on my panel and POOF!!! Nice blue flames dancing 4 inches from my 1/2 gallon of glow fuel. I quickly blew it out and have never made the same mistake again.

I do think they have a problem with the pump and it should be sealed and safe. NO excuses in this matter. Yeah, we play in a hobby that brings risk, but the tools BUILT for the hobby should be safe.

Here is the pump in question that sparked a fire on me: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXVZ41&P=ML

I think a fire extinguisher should be close on hand at all fields. When my electric pump dies, I will do a bit of soul searching before purchasing another one.

Regards,

VG

RE: fire
 

If a gun exploded in your hand, or perhaps fired when the safety was on, would you contact the manufacturer or just say "by its intended purpose, it is a dangerous product".

RE: fire
 

I truly am sorry for your tx, But one fire out of the thousands of pumps sold is not a bad average.Everyone knows the inherat dangers involved. All i'm saying is fluke accidents will happen and do! Out of the millions cars sold and they have a one problem with a fuel pump nothing will be done about it, until you have hundreds of the same problem, then they will admit and say they have a problem and have a recall! I say this is probably a fluke accident, and by all means tell the manufacturer and let them know as well. Lets all be thankful that nobody was hurt, count your blessings and move on!
thats just my two cents

RE: fire
 

madmanmikie:

If you are worried about this same incident happening again do yourself a favor and just get a manual hand crank pump. I also had electric pumps on both my boughten and homemade flight boxes and had quite a few problems with leaking (no fires) around the pump mechanism inside the pump. You know the small box that has the two gears meshed inside that actually do the pumping of fuel when you flip the switch. They would leak where the o-ring is in the backplate of the pump or at the shaft where the geardrive from the motor would engage it.

You should get one of [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFAW2&P=ML]THESE[/link] for 10 bux along with the fuel can setup like [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXRS88&P=ML]THIS[/link] for another 8 bux and you'll have the same setup I've been using since last fall. Works better than an electric pump (I don't seem to waste as much fuel with the manual pump) and it's portable. You can re-fuel your plane away from all electronics and your flight box....yes I still store the fuel on the flight box but rarely leave it there once at the field. If you don't like the dubro fuel fittings you can get a real nice cap for your fuel jug from heliproz.com....granted it's going to cost you more than 8 bux.

[link=http://www4.mailordercentral.com/heliproz/prodinfo.asp?number=131380]Heliproz Fuel Jug Set[/link] for 39 bux or [link=http://www4.mailordercentral.com/heliproz/prodinfo.asp?number=888600]Slimline Fuel Cap[/link] for 20 bux (you still need to buy the pump for this one though)

Here's a couple pics of my fuel jug setups:

The one using the dubro fuel jug fittings
http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL18/4.../102137045.jpg

and the other using an older version of the heliproz aluminum cap
http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL18/4.../102136990.jpg

The fuel pumps are mounted on a scrap piece of 3/4" pine that I had laying around that is trimmed to roughly the size and shape of the pump. The rest is just nylon cable rings with elastic cord (all available at your local home center) running through it to hold the pump onto the gallon jug....cheap and it works great.

Madd_Maxx