Firebird Scout
 

I purchased a Firbird Scout about 3 weeks ago and today was the first time I had a change to fly it. After driving around for a couple hours trying to find a good place to fly that wasnt prohibited I finally found a park with a big field and asked the caretaker if it was ok and he said no problem. So off I went for my first launch. Know what happened? My plane took a nose dive straight into the ground. I thought it was something I did so I tried again. Same thing happened. Tried again, and again, and again....same thing. Finally the tail broke so I called it quits. Something was obviously wrong with my plane. So I took it back to the hobby shop and showed them what was wrong. The guy had no clue. First he tried to tell me that the problem was my broken tail, then I had to remind him it broke because of the problem with the plane. So he gave me the number to the manufacturer and told me to call them the next day because they were closed already. As soon as I left the shop I dialed the number and guess what? They answered. I talked to a tech support guy and he told me he didnt know and to write a letter, copy my reciept, and send it in. Problem is its not worth shipping, besides the fact that it will cost a lot to ship all I will get back is the same crap plane I had before. Oh yeah, I fogot to mention....this is the second plane I had to take into the hobby shop. The first time there was a short in the motor. This time they didnt offer to exchange it, only gave me the manufaturers number.

Anyways, that brings us to the present. I decided to keep the plane and 'try' to get it flying. I noticed the boon was bent so I bent it back into place. Tried to fly again and it flew sort of but didnt quite make it. When I checked the plane the boon had poped back out. There is obviously a problem with this plane and the boon. I spent the rest of the day trying to make it to where the boon wouldnt pop out of place and even tied wire around the main body and boon to keep it bent upwards. It adds a little weight, but hopefully not too much. I have uploaded a pic of the modified boon. Well what I want to know is if anyone else had this problem and how they fixed it. Also if anyone else has modified their Firebird Scout in useful ways let me know. So far my opinion of this plane is crap. Maybe that will change if I can get it off the ground, otherwise I am stuck with a $70 pile of junk.

RE: Firebird Scout
 

They fly. How did you launch it? It was most likely that you gave it too much angle of attack causing it to stall. It needs to be completely horizontal throw, fly it in a straight line and get up speed for 15 feet or so, then slightly pull back. This should help it. This doea have a elevator doesn't it?

RE: Firebird Scout
 

Well, I had my fiance throw the plane while I controlled it and I know she was doing it write. I was watching how she did it, the plane would just dive straight down like the nose was made of lead or something. It was thrown into the wind and level with the ground, she even tried a little upward angle to see if that would help. I noticed the boon was bent download where the tail was a little lower than the body. I messed around with it and the boon seemed to 'pop' into place making the tail straight. I tried flying again after taping the tail and managed to get it to fly after launching the plane off a hill. It still ended up crashing because it wouldnt climb. I was giving it full throttle so I know it wasnt that and the battery was fully charged. I modified some things on the plane and will try tommorrow hopefully. I will let you know how it goes.

RE: Firebird Scout
 

Firebird Scouts fly just fine...have flown 3-4 of them, getting kids into the hobby.

A few ideas:

1) The instructions do tell you, iirc, where to balance the plane. (The CG, or Center of Gravity) If the plane is nose diving, it's very likely it's simply nose heavy, and moving the battery a bit, or adding some weight to the back, will resolve the issue. In fact, the wire you've added to the boom could even be having an impact...remember, this is a VERY light plane, so even a tiny amount of weight, especially if it's well forward of the CG, can make a big difference. Try using some CA to hold the boom in place, and remove the wire and/or any tape you may have added.

2) This aircraft controls altitude and pitch proportionally with throttle input...i.e. no elevator. If the battery is not fully charged, or is not holding a charge, insufficient thrust will be produced, which could cause the aircraft to sink. I've also seen one user put the prop on backwards, so it certainly can be done.

3) At full throttle, the Scout should just about fly out of your hand...it doesn't need much of a toss at all. Tossing it TOO hard could cause unexpected behaviour on launch. I would THINK the behaviour wouldn't be consistent as you've described, but ya never know.

4) Almost without exception, these planes come out of the box WAY out of trim. Have you adjusted the v-tail control surfaces to make sure that they are in line with the v-tail itself when the control stick is in the middle position? Double check this, as even a small amount of misalignment can have an impact on a plane as light as this one.

Don't give up on this bird yet. While they're not what I'd call 'great flyers' by any means, they're certainly a flyable and enjoyable introduction to the hobby.

RE: Firebird Scout
 

The wire was only added after the fact. I havent tested it with the wire yet. In fact the wire is behind the COG if I am not mistaken which should help if the battery was throwing the COG off. I know it is added weight, that is why I need to test it soon to see how much it is affected. The wire used is an ultra thin wire used in making flower arrangement. I bought it at Walmart and its almost as thin and light as fishing string. It is easier to work with and stronger. I have read in other places that the boon tends to come loose and bend down the tail causing nose dives. This is why I modified the plane so the tail would not come lose and the wire keeps it straight. I will let you know possibly today if it worked. I did not attempt to 'throw' the plane in the air just gently released it with full throttle. The battery was fine. I made sure it was fully charged and the prop is on the right way. You can feel the wind from the prop if you face the plane away from you and it seems to be blowing strong. I will try to increase the trim thought which might also help. I understand that you might have to mess with the trim to get it flying right, but generally that is only if it pulls to the right or left though raising both evenly will help it climb. But I dont think you should have to modify the plane to keep it from falling apart. That is why I am aggrevated. Why make something RTF that isnt RTF? And I know that statement might sound dumb, but I have seen a lot of posts about the boon bending problem so it cant just be my plane. I am glad you guys have had good luck with flying these planes because it shows that it can be done. I wish I was as lucky with the one I bought. If anyone else can verify that they have had the same problem let me know how you fixed it. Thanks for all the help.


gboulton -----> I will try checking the COG before I fly because you are right in the fact that it could cause a nose dive. But I did write this article before I ever modified my plane so the problem I was having was when it was flying 'stock'. I didnt see anything about the COG in my booklet. Could you give me more info on how to check this and where the COG of this plane should be? Maybe I missed that part or it wasnt included in my book. I would appreciate the help very much and thanks in advance for the help and pointers.

Also, the trim was even with the tail when first flown, but I will try raising the trim just above the tail and see how that effects it. Trust me I am not one to give up. The fact that I spent about 3hours last night to modify my plane shows that I am willing to put in the effort to make it work.

RE: Firebird Scout
 

dus10lee,
ONLY 3 HOURS? haha sorry i just had to. I have spent 9-12 hours modifying my coroplast planes that took 10 hours to build.

Anyways. Might want to check the backwards prop thing just in case.

RE: Firebird Scout
 

I dont think it would take 9-12 hours to fix a firebird scout. Besides the point I was trying to make was that I am willing to put in the time. And no, the prop is not backwards. To me that would have been an obvious problem.


Anyone have any modification ideas on how to keep the battery from poping out when you land or crash?

RE: Firebird Scout
 

Yeah, but that's because you made 4 hours worth of mistakes, Chad. ;) (Sorry...I just COULDN'T resist...please know I'm just ribbing you a bit :))

dus10lee,

Well, you're correct...if you just added the mods, they certainly aren't the problem.

And it certainly sounds like you're paying attention to the common causes of unacceptable performance form this bird...so I'm somewhat at a loss here. I would, however, still be thinking the CG is off somehow...and may require a bit of weight at the tail to balance out.

Glad to hear you're not going to give up on it...I hate to see a negative experience with a particular aircraft sour someone on the hobby as a whole. :)

RE: Firebird Scout
 

Do you know where the COG is suppose to be on the plane? From what I can tell the COG of my plane is between the landing gear and the place where to boon meets the fuselage. If you look under the plane you should see a place where part of the body indents just behind the landing gear which is where my COG seems to be. If you can let me know it will help a lot in figuring out if it is balanced.

I am charging my battery now for a test flight. The field I will be in is not big so if it does start to fly how can I quickly land it as soon as it starts climbing? Or is there even a way to?

RE: Firebird Scout
 

I THOUGHT the instruction manual said where the CG is suposed to be. If not, however, 1/3 of the way back from the leading edge f the wing is usually a pretty safe typical 'starting point' for nearly anything that flies.

In either case, if the plane still wants to nose dive, WHEREVER it's currently balanced is likely too far back, and should be moved foreward, which is done by moving the weight back a bit...ether by moving the battery back (I know they don't have much room, but do what you can) or by adding a bit of weight to the tail section.

As for landing quickly, in my experience these birds tend to drop pretty quickly when power is removed...one caution though...if there's much wind at all (a stiff breeze will do it) when you point the aircraft into the wind to land, it WILL tend to float for a while.

RE: Firebird Scout
 

Thanks for your advice, I think it will help out a lot.

RE: Firebird Scout
 

Yhe manual

http://hobbyzone.com/documents/HBZ4600-manual.pdf

says nothing about the CG. It does discuss launch and setup of the controls but is rather vague.

RE: Firebird Scout
 

Thanks bruce. I looked for it online, but couldn't find it.

Sorry I misled you there, dus10lee. [sm=disappointed.gif]

RE: Firebird Scout
 

Well it flew. It was the boon. The modifications I made worked. Actually they worked better than expected. The plane seems a little sturdier.

RE: Firebird Scout
 

Good post here about reinforcing the engine mount with a simple zip tie, also you may want to stress and tape the wing if you try any loops or dives etc because Ive read lots about the wings folding if there not taped. [link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110534&page=2&pp=15]RCGroups.com[/link] I just got a firebird commander and nose dived on the first try also...tried again after a piece of tape and elastic fixed the chunk of wing and canopy I broke on my maiden flight. I have been having a great time ever since. Already looking for a new plane though because Im having WAY too much fun. I found lots of great tips just by doing a google search on Aerobirds and Firebirds, the tips apply pretty much to both lines because there design is very similar. My first crash was a HARD crash but even after that my Commander has flown great for the last two weeks 2-3 times a day even in light wind I have no problems, rolling take-offs I haven't been able to manage yet because it tends to spin out before getting off the ground, but other then that its been a blast. Anyways good luck and have fun with it but make sure to check out the engine mount after your nose dive, mine had shifted forward a bit on one side(barely able to notice and it flew fine like this) and after pushing it back into place and reinforcing it with a zip tie as is recomended in that post and taping the wing for strength its been even better. Anyways, I didn't bookmark it but if you look you can also find a post about reinforcing the boom much like you did because that model is known for it popping out of the mount, like what you mentioned...looks like you figured that out on your own, they also mentioned after that simple fix you should be fine.

BTW, after looking at your picture it looks like your fix is a bit different then was discussed on that post I read, they actually drilled small holes on either side of the plane where the boom attaches inside the fuselage, they mentioned if it pops out of that brakcet its set in it needed to be epoxied or , once again a simple zip tie would do...here is the link, found it while I was typing this. [link=http://www.*********.org/firebird-tips.htm]RC Hobbies[/link]

BTW... read the mod advice closely please if you use it there are some important points, like the engine mount mod mentioned the two capacitors on the back of the engine for noise reduction, if you dont do the mod as instructed a light crash may break those off and cause you problems. If you do it as instructed there not in any danger so please take caution and read it all.

Here is another good link from a guy whos been flying an Aerobird (your planes big brother) for a long time, much of the stuff he has to say apply to your plane as well. [link=http://www.rccyberflyer.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-49.html]R/C Cyberflyer[/link]

RE: Firebird Scout
 

why don't you take a big picture of your entire plane. that could help us out a bit. it is not unreasonable that your fiance, even if she is the goddess of the world, may not be able to hand launch a plane right. these planes need to be launched, not tossed and not thrown so it really does take some practice. that said, after the first launch there could've been a hundred things that went into misalignment. hard to tell. take some pictures.

1. take it from nose to tail to see the alignment of the wing and tail feathers
2. take it from the side so we can look at the incidence of the wing against the motor and tail feathers
3. take pictures of the tail feathers in neutral position
4. post it all!

i wouldn't be surprised if it was that your battery was just not charged correctly and that the plane just didn't have the power to climb... you put in too much elevator and it stalled into the ground. that takes only a second to happen and usually happens right after a hand launch. my friend had to literally run when launching to get enough airspeed.

RE: Firebird Scout
 

Thanks for the info. Actually I didnt show pictures of that area, but I also did something similar. I drilled a hole on each side of the boon like you said and wrapped the hobby wire around the boon a few times, tied it, then used a glue gun to seal the holes back up to protect from water damage.

RE: Firebird Scout
 

As I said, after the modifications I was able to take it out for a test flight. She also launched the plane this time, the same way she did the last time, and it flew just fine.

RE: Firebird Scout
 

Sweet!

Glad to hear it flew well. :)

RE: Firebird Scout
 

When it hits the ground the battery tends to pop out. Anyone have a suggestion about how to fix this?

RE: Firebird Scout
 

Nice! Glad its all fixed up and flying :D ! I went tot he hobby shop today and grabbed a tail wheel for $1.50 and put it on my Commander, with the wheel I was actually able to do a rolling take-off finally. I dont know if your model had one or not but its worth under 2 bucks even if it just protects your trim screws and antenna from draggin on the pavement.

Have Fun!

RE: Firebird Scout
 

well congratulations! but if you think it's tough getting into this hobby, don't ever try getting out of it!

RE: Firebird Scout
 

Stop hitting the ground. ;)

Ok, sorry. :) In all seriousness, a bit of adhesive back velcor strip should do the job. :)

RE: Firebird Scout
 

one word - velcro. i use velcro for a lot of things. for small things like your battery, i think a little double sided would work fine. for larger packs, i use the velcro for strapping computer cords together. secure the loop into the fuse and you have a very good hold down system. with the latter, i usually put glue some thin foam where the battery rests to add friction so that it doesn't slide within the constraints of the velcro ties.

RE: Firebird Scout
 

I've just been using an elastic band around the nose and over the canopy and haven't had had any battery ejections since I started doing that, luckily though I haven't had too many hard landings either.