P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

HAS ANYONE FLOWN THE NEW 51 TRAINER FROM HORIZON. I KNOW THEY ARE NOW SHIPPING AND WAS WONDERING HOW THEY FLY.

THANKS, CHARLIE

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

Charlie,
As an instructor I'm interested in how this new plane will actually perform as a trainer. I am holding off giving any advice at all (pro or con) on this until I can get some first hand information on it. I'm not talking about info in the catalog, or even those so called "reviews" that pop up in a lot of the magazines because they can sometimes be influenced by advertising dollars.

If this plane actually does perform as a decent trainer it will be kind of fun for the student to have a "warbird" has his first plane. But if it doesn't work as a trainer then I think Hanger 9 will have done an injustice to the hobby as a whole by putting out a product that lures a new pilot into buying it because it's a "sleek warbird". Let's face it, sometimes conventional trainers are boxy and a bit ugly, but if a student sees this P-51 next to an ugly trainer it's not hard to predict what they are going to choose.

As I said above, I am reserving judgment until I can get reliable information on this plane. To be honest I am skeptical that it's going to be as good of a system as the advertising for Hanger 9 pumps it up to be. Right now I don't have any students that I'm training, but I am considering getting one of these if I get a new student before too long so that I can evaluate it. I'll keep the group posted on what happens

Ken

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

I brought one home today from my LHS.
My first impressions are with the quality. Mine had a very obvious group of wrinkles in the covering, right behind the cockpit on the fuselage that I cannot remove.[:'(] The servos for the rudder and elevator protrude into the cockpit area so you can see the bottoms of the servos through the cockpit. On mine, when you look through the cockpit, I can see that the mounting screws and the servos case screws are heavily coated with rust. That does concern me because, if the airplane was subjected to storage or shipping elements that could cause that, what do the bearings in the engine look like?:eek:
I bought this airplane so that I could get a feel for it before a brand new student shows up at the field and asks for instruction. I plan on putting it together just as the instructions call for and then I will get my fellow club instructors together at the field and we will put it through its paces. I am still very concerned that the airplane will lack the self righting characteristics of a good trainer. It does look to be a very good sport airplane though.
I will assemble mine tonight and share my progress as we go.

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

CCRC1,
That is exactly that same thing I am considering too. As an instructor at the our field, and as a moderator here, I don't want to give out incorrect advise about this plane. I'm very eager to hear your thoughts and experiences with this plane. Please do let me know.

I appreciate it.

Ken

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

No problem Ken.
My LHS sold me mine and removed the TX, RX, simulator software and trainer cord and gave me a reduced price. I didn't really need all that stuff, I just needed the airplane. I will try and post some pictures during assembly.

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

Well I have just finished assembly of the P-51 PTS.
Please remember my comments are just my opinion and, remember that I am a particular pain in the #@*& when it comes to my airplanes.
First, I really wish that they would issue sandpaper to the guys at the ARF factory. Silver covering hides absolutely nothing and you can see every imperfection (and there are many). The balsa sheeting on the turtle deck area is very soft balsa, and this is an area that you tend to grab the airplane to pick it up. The holes in the fuselage and the wing dowels did not line up and I needed to work them a bit to get the wing to fit properly. The fiberglass cowl was installed improperly (to far forward) and it interfered with the carburetor. I had to move the mounting holes back about 3/16" (where it was supposed to be) so the decals don't match up now.[&o]
My biggest negative comment was that the canopy comes glued on from the factory. The inside is swirled with a fog and I can't get inside to clean it. I also can't install a pilot and a pilot would really look great in this airplane.
Well, I guess this stuff is normal for ARF's. However, the wing not fitting and the cowl blocking the carb from rotating would have stopped a beginner in his tracks and thats how I am trying looking at this airplane, through the eyes of a beginner. I am a little concerned about the airplanes ability to take abuse, such as the hard landings that new pilots tend put an airplane through. I am not sure that this airplane could be easily repaired. I also an concerned that the engine is cowled. To gain access to the engine, a beginner will have to remove the exhaust stacks, remove the spinner and prop, remove the muffler, remove the high speed needle, remove 4 cowl mounting screws and work the cowl around the engine. This could be a bit frustrating for a new pilot.
This is all nit picky stuff, but I thought I would be honest. The true test will be in the flight characteristics.

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

No, IMHO it's not nit picking. This is the kind of information that needs to be put out. I said before, the slick ads in the magazine promote the plane as being simple and ready to fly for a beginner and imperfections like you point out definitely contradict the ads. Yes, the way it flies will be very important but I feel the fit and finish of a "trainer" is just as important as the way it flies. If it's too difficulty for a beginner to get together it may not matter how easy it is to fly if they tear it up before they ever get to the field.

Please keep us posted on the progress and the test flight.

Ken

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

Ken,
I was concerned about the wing dowels not matching up to the fuselage. A beginner would have tried to force the wing and I promise, they would have put a finger through the airframe someplace. The airframe reminds me of the U-Can-Do or one of the 3D Arfs on the market. What I mean is, most of it is cut away to save weight.
One other thing I was disappointed with is there is no charge jack, and no place to put one without adding wood to the structure. This means a student (and most importantly the instructor) cannot check the RX battery without completely taking the wing off.[:-]
I dunno, I think the LHS's will be pretty busy helping beginners assemble their airplanes if they are all like mine. My opinion is, that the airplane will be a pretty good sport airplane, but packaged as a "complete" package with the radio and engine installed, will turn away the intermediate sport flying customer because they will want to use their radio and choose their power plant. For the average ARF guy, the items I listed are probably just normal ARF assembly obstacles. For die hard builders like me, they are just bits of frustration because we know to think ahead, so as not to make those mistakes.
I am still a bit ticked that I cannot put a pilot in a WARBIRD!!!! It just don't look right.

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

ccrc1,
do you have any pictures of these areas yet ? just wondering as you said you were going to take some while puting it together. im still waiting for my p-51 to come in, should be here tomorrow i hope. im pretty much an ARF type guy (only have built 1 plane from a kit cant build due to injury) so i cant wait to see what its like in person. please post pics if you can. thanks

bassman

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

Here are a few.

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

A few more

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

One last one

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

ccrc1,

thanks for the pictures it actually looks pretty good for an ARF from what i can see. (wish they would leave the hangar 9 stickers off though ;( )

have you tried to balance the plane yet ? does it need any weight added or is it pretty close ? also does the wing attach with screws through the tube or how does it attach ? thanks and sorry for so many questions just want to know what to ecpect once mine gets here :)

bassman

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

The one I have balanced right were the instruction indicated. The wing bolts on, with nylon bolts through the bottom of the wing.
I agree with you about the decals. I have no problem with the factory putting on the stars and bars, but all of the other markings could have been included as a decal sheet so the buyer could mark they way they wanted.

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

What? And miss the free advertising?:D

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

LOL bruce

if its a sticker a little heat and pull should take it off. i dont ever recall seeing a hangar 9 on any of the warbirds at basic traing, way back when :)

well at any rate im betting this plane will fly like my AT 6 texan wich would be a good thing as i like that plane handles very well even with the short tail moment.

CCRC1 let us know if you get to fly today or tomorrow morning i am VERY curious as to how it flies . it looks like it should ground handle very well with the wheels so far forward .


bassman

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

Wooooooo Hoooooooooo

MR UPS man just brought me a package a day before i thought i would get it ;) ok guys i will have some pics and info of mine up in awhile once i get it unpacked and checked over.


bassman

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

im currently flying electrics and saw this plane. all i could do is drool at the phrase "P-51 trainer RTF":D i also would like to know how this flies as a trainer.

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

hello all,
well after getting back from a trip to town i got my P-51 "trainer" put together. it looks good over all. and like CCRC1 i to had a little wrinkle behind the canopy (see pic) other wise all looks good and went together fairly easy.

my cowl looks to be positioned right, as the throttle works good. i had a little trouble getting the wing onto the fuse couldnt get the bolt and hole lined up then figured out to move the wing out alittle so i could see it LOL.

well with any luck it will get into the air tomorrow afternoon and i will post the results.


bassman

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

So far the one my club got as a raffle prize (donated by Walt's Hobby in Syracuse) looks pretty good. I'll check some of the problem areas mentioned here. It is packaged quite nice and the first thing you see when you open up the box are replacement bolts for the tail section with a warning note to use the new ones vice the one installed on the plane. I start construction on Friday and should have it ready by the time for our Airshow.

Well I checked it. Definitly needed more sanding before the monokote. I have rust on the bottom servo screws. This is weird. I just hope these servos weren't sitting around in some damp area. A little wrinkle in Monokote behind the cockpit. No canopy fogging.

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

Well I'll add my 2 cents. I did my solo 2 week ago and picked up my P51 today. I looked at some of the above mentioned potential trouble areas BEFORE I paid for it. The cowl looks good and no wrinkles on the fuse. I didnt get to the wings to look at them. Since I only have 2 weeks of solo time and no ARF assembly experience I think I will have a good feel as to if this plane will be as advertized as a RTF trainer. The only plane I have flown is my Hobbiestar superstar (used) but has a new elvolution .61NT for power. Great motor by the way
I hope to fly the P51 this weekend. I will post the results of the RTF assembly, test flight, and trainer crash pix if any

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

Thanks for the information along with all other comments / photos. I too will reserve opinions on this as a trainer. Having taught many of our local pilots I do admit to having my doubts. I'm concerned about a false sense of security if this does prove to be a viable trainer. I do recall a trainer put out by Horizon with a camouflage scheme. It was one of the worst ideas to date. Most beginners have enough trouble with plane orientation and to add that was just too much for the few we had show up at my field. I can say none are still in RC that tried it as a first plane.

EXCAP232

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

Ok, I'm gonna jump in here. :)

Quite simply, I am absolutely astounded by this system.

Flew one this evening, and then buddy boxed the owner for two more flights...his first two rc flights ever.

I'll say it again...I'm astounded.

First things first:

For $379, this guy's up and flying. Radio, Engine, Servos, even a buddy cord for crying out loud (The cord will even go JR->JR or JR->Futaba). And all of it standard JR or Evo stuff, so perfectly usable in later planes.

As for flying:

I'd have bet a sizeable chunk of my next paycheck that there was NO WAY a roughly scale warbird could POSSIBLY be made to fly like a trainer. No way. Can't happen. Surely, I thought, all that GARBAGE they hung off this plane will make it fly like utter...well...garbage.

Wrong.

It's slow, stable as a rock, incredibly smooth, and ridiculously forgiving. Stalled it, it fell straight down, wings level, every single time. Stall it and hold full up elevator, it simply FLIES. NO indication it wants to tip stall, no wobbling...it just crept along, straight and level, with full up elevator.

FWIW, the same works for landing. level it out, chop the throttle, and it just glides right in. Better sink rate (imo) than classic trainers as well...it very gently drops right on down, slow and level, removing the tendancy I've seen with many trainers to push the nose down to "force" it onto the ground.

What really blew my mind is, EVEN with every trainer advantage on the aircraft, it will still handle well enough to let the instructor easily and quickly recover from any student mistake. It's my no means twitchy, but if necessary, it can be recovered with ease.

It FEELS very much like what it's supposed to be...a slow, forgiving, stable warbird (as though such a thing would be possible). There's little doubt in my mind that as speed brakes, flaps, etc come off, it will fly quite capably, and perform more than adequately as a warbird.

There was, IMO, only one downside...its ground handling was, to say the least, BAD. Even the smallest rudder inputs at any speed will tip the aircraft to one wingtip, and upon reaching any speed at all, t wants to tip/pull left HARD and QUICK. Some practice with takeoffs was able to mitigate some of this, but no amount of throttle or rudder management made it even close to what I'd call "reasonable". When next we fly, I'll likely try just staying on the elevator, and letting it come off the ground in a 3 point stance...I'm CERTAINLY not concerned that it'll tip stall if we do that.

In any event, color me convinced. I was pretty skeptical about this system, but willing to see what it was like when released. I absolutely think H9 has done their homework, and produced a quality system that can get beginners into the hobby with an attractive and fun (not to mention capable of growing with them) aircraft.

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

as a new pilot going to try the P51 this weekend I have a question gboulton. When u said "stay on the elevator" did u mean full up from standing start to rotation?

RE: P51- TRAINER FROM HORIZON
 

Yes, That's what I meant...basically, in an effort to give the tail wheel as much authority as possible, and to get the plane off the ground as quickly as possible, to avoid the poor ground handling.

PLEASE, however, understand...this is something I'm THINKING OF TRYING when the student and I next fly...I am NOT suggesting this as a course of action for a new pilot. While I have a pretty fair idea of how the aircraft will respond, what I'm suggesting may very easily have adverse effects...effects I'm prepared for, but a new pilot wouldn't be. Also, admittedly, if I chooe to try this, I'm acceping the potential that I've misjudged the aircraft's response, and am ready to buy the student a new plane if I have.

I strongly reccomend that you not try this, or suggest it to your instructor. :) After I've had a chance to give it a shot, I'll be more than happy to report on the results, and indicate whether or not I think this is a reasonable way to try to overcome the poor ground handling.