Tail Dragger landings
 

I am having trouble understanding the difference between landing on trike gear and Tail Draggers.

Do you want the rear wheel to hit first on a TD?

Do you just let it fall the last foot or so?

How do you keep it from bouncing all over?

I am building my first TD ARF and, frankly, I don't think I can make a very pretty landing.

With the trike gear it's simple, but I will ask my instructor to help me with the TD.

Any advice will help.

Thanks!!

RE: Tail Dragger landings
 

agexpert,
A lot of people get worried about taildraggers and landing them when they first start flying them, but IMHO there's not really that much to worry about. Most landings with a tail dragger will either be setting it down on the 2 "front gear" (landing it in the mains) or flaring out at the last minute and have the mains and the tailwheel set down at the same time (3-point landing). Don't worry about it, landing a tail dragger isn't much different than a nose gear plane. As you make your landing approach just let it slow down, hold it steady, and let is settle down on the mains. Or, just as it's about ready to touch the mains flair it out and make a 3-point landing.

Let your instructor show you how the first time. And then just like everything else in this hobby, practice, practice, practice. You'll get it.

Hope this helps

Ken

RE: Tail Dragger landings
 

You land a tail dragger the same way that you do a trike plane, get a nice slow rate of decent and let her touch down. The main wheels will touch first and the tail wiheel will touch after the plane slows down a little. Take-offs aren't to bad either, but they are a good deal more response than trike gear planes because the tail wheel moves directly with the rudder. You wil need to use a little up elevator when taxiing to make sure the tail wheel stays on the ground. I have a big 1/4 scale Decthalon and I taxi and start my take off roll with full up elevator, then as the plane accelerates I center the elevator and then add a little elevator once take off speed is reached. Smaller taildraggers are a lot easier, hold in a little up elevator and hit the throttle :)

RE: Tail Dragger landings
 

I've flown a 4 Star 60 over a year now. You've been given good advice here the landings are about the same, however as stated above taxi is different i taxi full up elevator to keep the tail down then neutral the elevators before i start my take off roll.
go have fun good luck

RE: Tail Dragger landings
 

On Tail Draggers set your AOA and when the mains touch down ease back on the throttle and the tail will settle down. You will enjoy it.

RE: Tail Dragger landings
 

agexpert,

For a taildragger the main gear are ahead of the CG. Location is important. Too far forward and they ground loop and bounce/porpoise easily. Too far aft and they nose over easy. Not a small number of taildraggers have the mains excessively far forward. Since gear are ahead of CG, a firm touchdown causes the nose to rotate up. This can be prevented by slowing down and flaring out enough to get the tail wheel to hit the ground at the same time or sooner than the mains. This is the 3 point technique. The other technique is a wheel landing - basically landing faster on the mains first. The trick here is to touch down soft enough to avoid bouncing. A more positive wheel landing is made by reducing AOA right at touchdown. Right at or just slightly before touchdown, let off on the up elevator input being held for the landing flare. Simply returning elevator stick to center is usually just about right. After the plane slows down, pull full up again to get the tail wheel working.

Multiflyer

RE: Tail Dragger landings
 

Actually, the problem with landing (or takeoffs) with taildraggers is often not so much pilot technique, but rather poor aircraft design. Airplanes with the gear too far forward tend to bounce on landings, and also have problems with ground loops. Also keep in mind, that airplanes that work well on grass usually have the gear slightly ahead of airplanes that work well on pavement.

Problems with directional control is usually solved once the airplane's tail is flying and and it is running on the mains. Since it is difficult to push down elevator on a takeoff roll, you can achieve this by using a bit of down elevator trim. When you first start the takeoff roll, hold a bit of right rudder, and enough up to hold the tail on the ground initially. Release the up as the airplane picks up speed so you don't stall the wing before takeoff speed is achieved.

The fun part is dealing with cross winds. Aileron control into the wind, then maintain runway heading with the rudder. Of course, this works with any airplane.

RE: Tail Dragger landings
 

Yep, what HighPlains said is so true. Poor main gear placement is so important and so often neglected. Here is a thumb rule for checking positioning. Set the plane on flat ground and lift the tail up until the plane just balances on the main gear (CG is straight above the axles). For flying off of hard surface the plane should balance on the mains at only 10 to 20 degrees nose down. For flying off of grass, an other 5 to 10 degrees nose down is good.

Also shorter mains and taller tail wheel help too. As the mains get taller and the tail wheel shorter, the 3 point angle grows. Aircraft must be landed slower to be able to 3 point. If the mains are too tall and tail wheel too short. The wing is above stall angle sitting on 3 points. Some scale warbird fighter types are like this, and can only be wheel landed.

Multiflyer

RE: Tail Dragger landings
 

In all honesty you shouldn't really think about any of this. The only thing you should change about your approach has nothing to do with actually touching down. I assume you are moving from a trainer to something a little more sporty. In that case all you should worry about is coming in a little faster and a little flatter. If your approach is good, the landing will take care of itself.

Do keep in mine what was said about taxing and takeoff though. That is all good info.

RE: Tail Dragger landings
 

Do you want the rear wheel to hit first on a TD?
NO!!!

Do you just let it fall the last foot or so?
NO!!!

How do you keep it from bouncing all over?
If it's a plane with a lot of drag, keep some power on during final. Keep the nose level and let it hit on the mains first. Then chop the throttle and let the tail settle. Keep it straight with the rudder.
If it's more streamlined and maintains speed well, come in with less throttle. Hold a little up elevator so it touches on all 3 wheels at the same time. Beware, this is tricky to do and may cause a stall at low altitude - not a good thing. I feel the other type of landing is MUCH easier to control and results on much easier touchdowns.

Dr.1

RE: Tail Dragger landings
 

I found that on my first experience with a trail dragger there is a speed at which the rear wheel doesn't really do anything, and the plane isn't going fast enough to control it with the rudder. I found that up elevator along with accellerating past that speed on take off and slowing down below that speed on landing really helped. Now I still fly on a frozen lake in the winter time so it has ice on it which only makes things worse. I try to have the plane completely stalled on touch down, because the first couple of feet on ice after landing I don't have a ton of control, but hey, it's on a lake so I have tons of room.

schu

RE: Tail Dragger landings
 

To keep from bouncing, I've found that if the plane is fully stalled at the time of touchdown. It will not bounce back up. I bring them in well above stall speed and let the speed play out with the plane just above the ground. When it stalls, it will drop on to the ground and stay there.

The main wheels on your plane should have a very slight amount of toe-in. To look along side the wheels, they should focus on a point some 20' in front of your plane. This tends to tame down the ground loop somewhat.

As you get closer to the ground, "ground effect" adds lift to the wing. You will notice ground effect more on a low wing plane than a high wing one. As you approach the ground, you will see the ground effect take place on planes with a lighter wing loading.

Don't have your gear any longer than necessary. Being higher up, your gear causes the plane to be more susceptible to cross winds and to swerving.

Enjoy,

Jim

RE: Tail Dragger landings
 

Dr1Driver,

Respectfully, flaring until tail wheel contacts first is the safest way to land a taildragger. Simply put, if the tail wheel hits first there can be no porpoising. As w8ye rightfully notes. The full stall landing is one of the oldest tricks in the book.

coolbean,

You can ignore technique if the taildragger is a well behaved one. As akschu points out some (many) are not so well behaved. All taildraggers are not the same. Pilot skill required varies depending on design configuration.

Multiflyer