Confused and unsure
 

I am new to the hobby and have enlisted at my local club to get some proper instruction as advised by some of you guys on the forum. As I have said in other posts I am honing my skills on the AFPD sim but one thing is still bugin me......How come I seem to be able to fly a 330S, 540 Edge P51 and an Ultimate Bip in AFPD at this early stage. I am begining to think that the simulator is giving me the false impresion that I am improving rapidly. Any thoughts

For the record I have just put together an electric Piper Cub just to have a play around on. Thought it would be a good idea to keep my mind clear of glow plugs and fuel for now.

RE: Confused and unsure
 

Simulators do that - after I was able to keep the sim trainer in the air, I jumped to turbines on the sim. To me they were easier to fly. Now, could I have flown one then? Even now? Definitely not then and even now I'd be scared to death of the speed.

Simulators help wtih being able to deal with control reversal (plane coming at you versus going away from you), they help you instill "muscle memory" where you don't have to really think about doing something - you just do it. Sims are great for working out new manuevers and practicing but keep in mind they are just a "SIMULATOR".

Speed perception on a sim is completely different. The wind blowing in your face and changing directions on you while batting the plane around is completely different. The sound of the engine running, the smell, other planes in the air - real trees! All of these things contribute to a very different feeling when you take off with a real airplane.

If you're doing well on the sim you will probably do well with an instructor but just like I said before, keep in mind this is a simulator and while it helps there is no replacement for the real thing.

RE: Confused and unsure
 

Many thanks shakes!! As I thought!! Getting a bit carried away.... To the field immediately and Fly,Fly,Fly

RE: Confused and unsure
 

Reminds me of my first training on a sim and my first flights with my plane. At first I was having all sorts of crashes on the sim, then after awhile I got it, and it seemed a piece of cake. But I realized that in the air, just flying around is probably the first and easiest thing to master. What I realized was what I needed was practice taking off and landing. So I started to do exercises where I would try to do takeoffs and landings as many times as possible. I'm thinking this is a good thing to practice with Spring coming. Think I'll go spend some time on the sim. Thanks for the thought.

Good flying to you,

Tom

RE: Confused and unsure
 

Yep, flying around is the easiest thing but one thing I noticed I was doing on the sim was flying where ever the plane wanted to go.
Flying around and flying where you want to are two different things :)

Some things to practice on the sim to make starting out easier (yes, I still say get an instructor -even if just for a few flights to help)

1) Turns - don't worry about taking off or landing "yet", instructors will do this for you. Make nice slow turns, don't over bank and use elevator to keep the plane at a constant altitude through the turn. This will definitely carry over to a real model in the air but don't expect it to be exact, you'll need to get a feel for the real plane. Practice going into a turn when you want to and coming out in a direction you want to be going.

2) Half throttle, straight level flying. The sim is pretty easy with this but with the real airplane - minor corrections are needed almost constantly. It's not a set and forget type thing. Don't over control - try to be as smooth as possible using small, constant control inputs. What I mean by that is, don't "jab left aileron - release, jab left aileron - release" over and over again until you get it where you want it. SMOOTH - once you start moving the sticks, don't stop until its where you want it. Your flying will look a thousand times better and you will learn more precision this way.

3) Practice adding a little throttle when pulling the nose up and letting off throttle when you put the nose down. This will help later on down the road - especially when you do your first real loop! (Sims can loop at full throttle throughout the entire loop without ripping wings off. Some real trainers cannot). Again, practice being smooth with the throttle.

4) Start "playing" around with the rudder during flight. Lots planes just fly better when you add rudder in turns and it gets you used to using your left hand for things like stall turns in your future. Not to mention, cross wind landings. This will get you into some things called roll and pitch coupling. The sim lets you see it happen, expect it and prepare for it with a real plane. A plane with roll coupling = rudder makes the plane roll. Correct with a little opposite aileron to keep wings level. Rudder sometimes makes the plane pitch up or down so you can expect to add in up/down elevator when using the rudder. Don't worry about perfecting this yet but like I said, just play around on the sim using rudder and trying different things. As an experiment - bank into a turn and apply just a hair of rudder into the same direction you rolled and hold it. Watch how the tail reacts.

Experimenting on the sim is fun! It's a great tool. Don't treat it like a video game, treat it like real training and you will learn a lot! The first time I put a plane into knife edge flight I had done it on the simulator hundreds of times with many different planes. By that time, the muscle memory was engrained in my brain so it was all a matter of just responding to how the plane reacted and compensating to get it to do what I wanted it to do.

Thunderbolts, after you fly for the first time with a 4 channel glow plane (with instructor), come back and let us know how it went! People here enjoy helping others get started and one of the rewards is seeing the excitement after someone's first flight, first landing, first solo. Also, give us a report about how different the real thing is compared to the sim.

RE: Confused and unsure
 

Shakes: I am a beginner with about 6 instructor accompanied flights on a Hangar 9, Alpha 60.
I just got AFPD. I really apprecaite your post with information as to what we should practice on with
the sim in preparation for real flight. I can't get to the field very often, so I thought this would really help me. If you have any other sim experiences, please post.

Thank You

Jim
AMA 821369

RE: Confused and unsure
 

For the record........I hate sims........I have been flying off and on for 25 years. I bought the G2 when it came out and flew it or tried to for a long time. I can take off and land......sometimes.........but when I go out to the field and actually fly an airplane I do just fine. I have always had an instructor help me when I needed it but find that once I fly a plane in real life.............I can go back to the sim and fly much better. I think that sims are a detriment to first time flyers.........there is nothing to replace a for real instructor out at the field. Sorry..........that's just my experience.........I still fly on a regular basis and rarely use the expensive sim I just had to have.

Regards,
Andy

RE: Confused and unsure
 

thunderbolts, as my learned colleague stated above, DON"T use the sym as a video game. Always make the model do what YOU want it to do . If you have weather in that sym, then turn it on, crank up the wind to 10mph, cross wind , and practice landings on the centre line of the strip, no where else. With the same weather takeoff, and half way through the turn , close the throttle, and do a dead stick landing , again down the centre line of the strip. These things are what syms are for, they are not a game. Practice , practice , practice. Set yourself a goal and practice it to perfection. All sym practice is good for flying the real model. After all , your astronaughts spend hundreds of hours on a sym, before heading to space.
Bill , the_madgenius down-under in Australia.

RE: Confused and unsure
 

No, actually the simulator is giving you the REAL impression that you ARE improving rapidly. You really are.

However, you're not improving all the skills that're actually needed. You are learning to twiddle the sticks, and sounds like that part is coming along fine. But pushing the sticks isn't anywhere close to all the skills you need.

One glaring detail that PC simulators don't and can't teach is depth perception. We've got a guy at the field who learned all his kewl flying moves on a sim before he tried them out on his real model. And he lands short or off to the side of the runway in the weeds all the time. See.....

And the PC isn't going to teach you what you really need to know to setup your servos, connecting hardware etc etc. And it's not going to give you any practice at cranking and setting your engine. And it's not going to use the greatest teaching tool ever devised to reinforce your needle setting lessons, the deadstick on takeoff example.

And it's never going to give you the real experience of feeling the knot in the pit of your stomach that comes when you're standing behind that $600 worth of brand new, lovingly crafted beauty that's sitting there on the runway with it's just broken in engine (that cost you all the spare pennies you had for this month's food) and you're about to lift the sucker off for the first time and you're wondering if you're going to land it in one piece or maybe you didn't setup the throws enough or too much and you hope you got the balance right (you ever had to balance a simulator model before you could fly it?) and you hope the model isn't too wind sensitive because it was calm when you were cranking but it's across the runway now and and and..........

It's a lot more complicated in the real world..... <grin> even if our "real" is a model of real airplanes....... and the simulators don't do it all.

But yeah, you are progressing well. Just don't overestimate what a sim does for you.

RE: Confused and unsure
 

in my opinion sims teach you which way to move the sticks ie which way coming to ya verus away from you etc. but sims are terrible for learning to land and worse for dealing with wind or tubulance.
i have a sim and i use to try a new move or to stop my thumbs from aching when the weathers too bad to fly other than that its useless fly outside as much as possible with an instructor

RE: Confused and unsure
 

A sim does not feel like the real thing.
I was lucky to find an aerobatic plane for FMS that is actually more temperamental than my current real planes (cannot remember where I got it). It has taught me to keep up some speed for landing. Otherwise it will stall, drop a wing and crash.

RE: Confused and unsure
 

the fms and southernx 3d model taught me how to fly .....i have to give credit to fms..................... sorry sim haters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [link=http://californiadetail.tripod.com/3dairplanes/id10.html]my link to free fms and southernx download[/link] ;)

RE: Confused and unsure
 

Guys,

Thanks you all for your views and advice. What a fantastic group to get to know. What a fantastic hobby!! And I only just started. I'll take all the advice onboard and put it to good use. Looks like the real thing is more difficult but that's not gonna put me off. Time for some real flying!! All the best..!

RE: Confused and unsure
 

As you see there are varied opinions on the whole "use a sim, don't use a sim" debate. Personally for me I don't think I would have soloed yet if it had not been for the sim. I just wasn't getting enough flight time at the field with an instructor & buddy box. For the most part the instruction I was getting was being told to go home & practice on the sim. So I did, and after getting fairly proficient at it & thoroughly frustrated at my lack of progress trying to learn the right way, I went out & soloed myself & had the best day I can remember in years. Mine was a very different situation though do to some serious health issues that my instructors were trying to deal with at the time, which forced me to take a path not reccomended, luckily it worked out ok for me.

I still like to practice on my sim all the time, to keep my thumbs so to speak. Especially during this stretch of bad weather. I noticed the very same thing you described though when I first started on the sim. Well at the very beginning I thought if this is even half as hard as the real thing, there is just no way I'll ever be able to fly. But I kept at it & pretty soon I realized I could fly all the advanced planes that I wasn't supposed to be able to fly yet, & that the trainers & parkflyers were the ones giving me fits! I could even do touch & goes with the F-18, while barely being able to land the PT40 1 in 4 tries.

I'm not familiar with the sim you have other than hearing it mentioned in different threads sometimes in here. I have G2 & the NexStar versions of Real-Flight, & while I know alot of instructors in here don't like them because we learn bad habits on them that they later have to try to unteach us, I feel the sim has been a huge help in getting me started. It is a great place to practice new things that I'm not yet ready to try on my real planes, the spacebar is free!

The other thing I really like about the Real-Flight sims is the swap page. You can go & download modified planes that other ppl have created by changing the components of the planes in the sim, & some of these guys really know how to set them up. I downloaded a giant scale CAP that some guy created & it is just a full blown 3D Monster!! I never get bored trying to fly this thing, it's incredible. There are pages & pages of planes to download & try out. It's alot of fun.

Good luck to you, I'm glad your finding this hobby to be as fun & exciting as the rest of us do.