Flying without and instructor
 

Ok i live in a small town where nobody flys anything, i am thinking about getting a avistar 40 trainer as my first ever plane, i live next to a small farm so there is alot of space to fly around. I am thinking about flying solo without any help from a instructor, snce there is no hobby shop nearby or any clubs. However i have practice for hours on realflight g3 and have gotten very comfortable with the controls, orientation , and landing do you think mastering a airplane on g3 will be enough to fly a real one? what are my chances?

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Get a slow and easy electric foamy plane first. They are not expensive, they seem pretty tough and they are easy to repair. Something like a GWS Slow Stick or Beaver.

The main disadvantage is that they do not tolerate much wind.

Simulators can help a lot but there is still a big difference between flying "ones and zeros" on a PC and committing a couple of hundred dollars worth of equipment to the sky.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

I started with a Nexstar Spent about an hour a day for a month on the SIM. When I got the actual plane in the air, it was a whole new ballgame. The SIM will teach you the basics like take-off, landing, and orientation, but the real thing is way different. If I had done it without an experienced pilot on the other end of a buddy cable, I would have had a crash for sure. I did solo after about 10 flights, and now feel comfortable after a whole summer of flights. I'm now building a low wing plane which will be another first, and I will have my friend on the other end of the buddy cable until I get used to it. Basically what I'm saying is, if at all possible, find some help! Or, you can go through a few planes. That will work but can get costly.
Good luck Bob

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

I say your chances are pretty fair. I spent alot of time on my G2 before flying my PT40. Yes it is different from the sim, but if you have plenty of airspace and a large landing area to give you plenty of room for error, go for it. Get some altitude right after takeoff to allow for errors, some breathing room ya might say.I did it, and many others have too.
Now a bunch of folks are gonna jump in on this thread ( they always do) and say your just short of being the 'town fool' for learning to fly without an instructor. Hey, it's not rocket science, take it slow and easy.
If you have enough room, just do some fast taxi passes on the ground, see how the plane reacts. Then do a short hop to see if the plane is gonna go left or right on it's own, then make some adjustments. The hardest thing is getting the plane trimmed out right, again thats where altitude is your friend, gives ya some room for error. Don't panic and over correct, that is the biggest mistake. Don't put too much throw into the ailerons, or elevator for that matter. A learned flyer does help when getting a new plane timmed right, yes indeed. But if I can do it, they just about anyone short of being a complete spaz can do it.
Good luck to ya, and let us know how it comes along.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Hey Ge force, I live 45 minutes from Sara., and Fly in Fort Edward. The field we use belongs to the state, there is no membership dues, but there are several qualified instructors there, that are more than willing to help you out. I trained there 3 years ago, was only getting in one day a month, due to my work schedule and now fly most every sunday. By using an instructor with a buddy box to learn on saved me alot of time, money and disappointment. I can proudly say, that I can still use my original trainer this year to let my wife learn to fly.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

GE Force, this is a great offer! It is well worth making such a drive to save your plane from the inevitable crashes that will occur from trying to learn on your own. Flying with others will also help you meet people and you may discover some others who live close to you.

There are also a few clubs listed in the Albany area in the AMA club locator http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx . Even if you decide not to join one, it's worth calling them to see what they know about fields in your area.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

although it is not "inevitable" that your gonna crash, im gonna agree with Chuck, you need to go to a field and find a trainer, and do it the right way.

i did exactly what you are wanting to do and did it, but i had no choice, i live out near Death Valley Ca and there was no way i could afford to drive 60 miles to train,buy the fuel and plane and i had a perfect place to do it, i did buy a electric 3 ch to master first and flew it till it quit (about 100 flights)

go get and instructor unless you are rich and invulnerable:D

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

If you cannot, or will not, get help I'd probably choose a different plane to start. The Nexstar (with the flight stabilization system), might be easier to learn on by yourself. The Avistar is more maneuverable than the Nexstar and that could get you in trouble faster. One thing you likely will do, even after all of the sim time, is over-control the plane.

Most instructors turn off the Nexstar AFS. Since they are in control with the student on a buddy box that makes sense. The instructor keeps the plane out of trouble so there's no need to have electronics trying to do it. Going it alone, the electronic help could be a good thing.

You can add a flight stabilization system to the Avistar, or nearly any model.

The FMA Direct "Co-Pilot" is a hundred bucks. There are favorable reviews of it, but who knows how much to trust magazine reviews.
http://www.fmadirect.com/products.htm?cat=20&nid=6

These guys sell a product called "BTA AS-07 Auto Pilot." Their marketing hype says it is superior to all of the others on the market due to different technology, blah, blah. It costs $250 so hopefully it is better, but I do not know anyone who has spent the bucks to find out.
http://www.maxxprod.com/mpi/mpi-16.html

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Yup, You should definitely take up that offer. I did eventually learn to fly from the sim. Now ask me how many perfectly good airplanes I killed along the way![:@]

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

If you don't mind the inevitable crashing, and repairing, and crashing, and repairing, well then yes you can do it!

I did it. 30 years ago. I estimate my first 30-50 flights ended up in crashes needing repairs. The plane survived all the way to a crashless full fight but it sure did look ugly and different than when it started! :)

There was no internet, and no sim's. So I believe you have a way better chance of success on your own today then I did. So many people are scared of crashing, and advise that you must only fly with an instructor. Hogwash! Get used to the idea of having a crash becuase it will happen eventually. If you are in a situation where it is difficult or impossible to get flying buddies or an instructor to help, you can still do it and you can succeed! It just might take a little more epoxy than some others. :D

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

I got a Nexstar about a month ago. Nice solid plane (new my newb opinion) and messed around on the simulator every now and then for about two weeks while the weather cleared up then I got her in the sky. Maiden flight was a beauty. It has a lot of trainer fucnions like the active flight stabalizer, some interesting flaps on the wings that decrease stall speeds, increase its want to climb without elevator, and decrease maximum speed and another set of interesting flaps on the leading edge of the wing which I have still yet to take off. But the plane is very forgiving and can run nice and slow. It will glide for miles which makes landings a lot easier.

I found the simulator to be pretty useless compared to real flight but it is nice to get a feel for what its like on the sim. Its a whole new game in the sky.

I didn't have a "buddy box" to go up with either and my first flight was solo. No crashes and the plane is just as nice in the air, very forgiving. So my opinion, yes, you can go up as a first timer solo style but make sure your comfortable with the controls of a plane. It doesn't hurt to have an awesome plane at the other end of your channel to! If you want to go straight into gas engines like I did, I highly suggest the Nexstar. Good luck and happy hunting!

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Another route would be to start with a sailplane such as the Dynaflite Butterfly.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

thanks for the coments , however i do not have a car and cant drive anywhere , i think it would be best to buy a electric foam plane to pratice then move up to a nitro plane

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Ge Force , i did it the same way you are planning i flew the G2 sim and when i was very comfortable with it i flew the avistar and had no problem at all, the only thing i did was break the wooden prop on a landing. i also flew the avistar for over a year before i finaly had a crash. then i learned how to repair a plane. the people that fail to fly on their own, don't get experience on a sim and try to start out on too much plane, the avistar is a great plane and i still enjoy flying mine. the second time i flew another flyer was there and watched from take off to landing and asked how long i've been flying and i told him about half an hour since my first flight and he was very impressed that i had gotten that good on a sim.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Hi, I'm also new to the hobby but I was successful at teaching my self without an instructor. I bought a sig LT-40 when I was 11 years old and wanted to learn to fly. It was hard for me to learn with an instructor because I didn't fly very often(It took me almost 2 years to go through a gallon of fuel). Over those two years I had gone up with six different instructors and I had never flown with one of them more than once. I only flew once every few months and every time I went it was like starting over again. So finally I got tired of cleaning the dust off of my airplane and I bought a G2 simulator to teach me to fly. After about seven months on the simulator I decided it was time to fly.[&:] I went to the flying field and there was nobody there but I decided to take a chance, and I flew it!:D It was easy, I had no problems at all! I did touch and go's and flybys and after about ten minutes I decided to land. It was perfect, not even a bounce and it was right on the middle of the runway. I will admit I had had some experience with a trainer 3 ch parkflyer, but I had been flying that while I was struggling to learn to fly my LT-40 and it wasn't very helpful other than learning basic orrientation.
Before I bought my LT-40, I was also planning to buy an Avistar, but an instructor that I talked to strongly suggested an LT-40 because it was much more forgiving. Before you buy an Avistar, you should check out the LT-40. If you decide to stick with the Avistar, I think you should go for it as long as you are very comfortable on a simulator. Just make sure you have lots and lots of space, and a large smoot area to land.
Happy Flying!

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

I also taught myself, while it hasn't been perfect and I have crashed several times I eventually got the hang of it. The only advice I can give is altitude is your friend and finesse everthing.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Ya see Ge Force, lots of people learned to fly by themselves and are still on thier 1st trainer. :D
Way to go y'all![8D]

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Above, I recommended that you get experienced help. I still do.

However, I am self taught myself. What I did:
- I have been interested, and learning from written material, for a couple of decades.
- I got a simulator, just the humble FMS and flew every plane I could get, until I was not crashing anything.
- I got a GWS electric foamy trainer and some decent radio gear, charger, etc.
- Built the plane light and straight
- Went to a large field with long grass and started flying. The plane seemed scary fast during the first few flights and the long grass cushioned several "interesting" landings.
- Two years later all the foam parts are still intact. I bent the prop shaft in a dive straight to the ground and replaced the gearbox (from my next GWS plane, which I powered with a brushless motor).
- That second plane is more demanding and I have broken its nose a couple of times. Repairs were easy.
- I have a couple of larger kits waiting until I move house in a couple of months. There will be a glow engine in my future but I am not sure which plane it will be.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

"Lots"? Hardly. For every one who made it there are probably 100 or more who gave up after several rounds of fly, crash, repair or replace. Every one of these threads follows the same pattern, a few say they learned with no crashes and a few say they did it with several crashes. Once a few have posted this they attempt to make it sound like everyone can learn on their own. They appear to block out the fact that many try and fail or finally seek help after wasting time and $ going it alone. I wonder why these people are so intent on encouraging beginners to follow this much more difficult, and expensive, path to learning?

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Ge Force, whichever way you go, come back and let us know how it goes, well i hope:)

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Baloney.

Lots of people have a lot more courage and detemination than you give credit for. :eek:

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

It's not baloney, but some who make it fail to notice the large numbers who don't.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

its just an individual choice guys, it just depends on each persons circumstances.

you are both right:D

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

I put in 2 to 3 hours every day after work on the G2 sim for 3 month's that's 150 flying hours or at 15 minutes per flight that's 600 flights before i flew my avistar, at the field i fly at there are people that have been flying on buddy boxes for 2 to 5 years, now that would have discouraged me and made me leave this hobby.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

I agree with piper on this one. I may be one of the lucky ones that learned by myself with only a few crashes (nothing major). Even though I taught myself I would recommend an instructor. It's not impossible to learn by yourself but it is probably not the recommended avenue.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

piper chuck, I have read many a thread here where the 'instructor' causes the crash! One I believe was a young boy's plane, because that instructor was watching another instructor's plane crash. The thread I think is called '3 crashes' or somethingwhatever. They had 3 planes in the air at once with instructors in control. Ya see even with an 'instructor' it can get expensive. I encourage others because it can be done. I, like others, take pride in learning something on my own. If it costs me a litte more, it's my money. Now I'm sure you will say it is safer to have an 'instructor' to teach one to fly, see my earlier comment on the 3 instructors having 3 student's planes in the air at the same time. How safe is that? Like gjeffers said it's an individuals choice.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Gosh, I feel for you. I only needed about a month with my instructors to solo. It was at a time when buddy boxes were the exception. They had me landing before I thought I was ready, but it turned out they were right! No crashes while learning, but they sure did save the plane a time or two. The nice thing about a GOOD instructor is he will keep you focused on what you need to learn and practice rather than letting you bore holes in the sky.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

MANY? I love these exaggerations! :) Yes, it is personal choice. In order to make this choice, it's important that the person have ALL of the facts, such as the large numbers who try on their own and give up, instead of only seeing over simplified reports from a few who have made it on their own, allegedly without crashing. It's kind of funny that some people have gotten their bees in a bonnet, and have to resort to exaggerations, in response to a much needed reality check.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

What do you mean you feel for me, i was probably ready to fly the avistar after about 2 weeks on the sim but i was having fun and i was not about to fly the avistar in the middle of winter. the point i'm trying to make is the sim's do work, and people who didn't learn that way know nothing about that subject.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Thats funny chuck. No, my bees are not in my bonnet over this or you( mr reality check,lmao). And I don't think I'm resorting to exaggeration myself, there are plenty of stories to back me on that one. You're the one who said " For every one who made it there are probably 100 OR MORE who gave up..." Now who is exaggerating? I guess you keep a count.
I just rather give a positive vibe to someone that wants to try it on thier own, not be negative. If someone started a thread asking if they should get an instructor to learn how to fly, I would not sound in saying not to. And I would not tell them they should try it on thier own first. I don't go sticking my nose into others beeswax.
Ge Force was asking if it can be done and I just gave some positive reinforcement, and then some suggestions. Perttime gave real good advice to get a less expensive foam plane first. Seems to me your the one with 'bees in the bonnet'.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

You can go it alone as some of you will be hell bent to do and there is no stopping, nor talking you out of it. This is fine, do what YOU like! We're hopeful some of you will listen to the voice of reason and experiance. I would guess between Piper and myself we have close to (if not more then) 50 years of experiance in this hobby. I can say uniquivically learning with an instructor is the best way to go and I have the years of experiance to back this up. One particular incidence where an instructor or instructors screwed up, shouldn't be construed as adequate reason to throw the better success instructors have brought to teaching the sport to others!

This is a beginners forum. We're attempting to help people learn this activity, not point them to the more difficult path.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Mode One, you are correct in your statements, and I would never argue that it is not best to get an instructor. For me and my work schedule, setting up a time for an instructor would be difficult to say the least. I'm sorry, I did not mean to imply that because instructors have made mistakes a person should forgo one. Ge Force asked if it's possible, and a few of us told our stories. I don't see whats wrong with that, and maybe give a little positive reinforcement to him along the way.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

My point is you learned when sim's were not around, and now sim's are around and your giving advice that's not current to what is avalable, you discount first hand knowledge and blow out of purportion the numbers of failures. Both ways are good and both ways have failures.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Start with a cheap foamy.....Accepitasus Baduis (I thinks that's how it's spelled?) or similar plane. Get a big open space and fly. Once you conquer this plane, then you are probably ready for a high wing trainer on a clam day with lots of open space. I started with a Duraplane and crashed it a few times (twice into a tree and twice into the ground after a dead engine), but once I started to keep it up in the air, I haven't crash since and now I'm flying a Nexstar. The only thing I could suggest is to be ready to power back and trim it, otherwise your'e going to crash again. And my last suggestion - Altitude is a must. Good luck and if you are good at the simulator and fell confident.... go for it without and instructor.......you'll do fine.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Very good points made there chris77. Maybe some have forgotten the joy they felt when they first learned to fly a RC. I think some think since someone may only have a few posts under thier name than that means they are inexperienced. Far be it.
More good suggestions ( and vibes ) from Johnmpa.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

after a lay off of 20 years and after the horrors of being self taught when I was 15 took forever to solo.so I went out and got a NEXTAR and went over to the local club, the guys were most helpful checking out and trimming the model for me. the main problem with the self taught method in my opinion is trimming. the knowledge more expierenced pilots have can make or break your ability to fly I had flown before so after 5 flights I soloed again. now after gaining some expierience myself I still ask for help with a new plane, it never hurts to ask for help,there is so many things to overlook when you dont know what to look for. check to see if a generous person in your area would drive to your location to help you with your plane he/she might find that you have a better place to fly than they were using. the radio check is vital and many details a noob would overlook because lack of expierence. you need 2 people to radio check a plane if it don't pass you might fly your new plane away, 10 to 15 min of flight time goes along way from you when you dont have a car to chase it down with . and AMA insurance is vital if you loose control and were to hit somone or somthing you dont even want to think about that, the things to think about when you are going to learn to fly by your self either way good luck its a great hobby

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Perhaps when you can count your flying experience in YEARS instead of MONTHS you'll be better able to assess this.
Positive vibes are fine, but I've always found reality to be better.
Your last sentence is rather telling. In case you hadn't noticed, this is not YOUR forum. It is the RC Universe Beginner's forum. People come here to learn, not to just get a warm fuzzy from people they agree with. Some of us invest considerable time in the forum and in real life helping others. Over time, we've seen enough to know what works and what doesn't. It's always interesting to see someone who has been in the hobby for a matter of months telling people with years of experience what they should and should not comment on.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

I haven't forgotten the joy I felt when I first learned to fly, and I doubt Mode One has either. I also haven't forgotten the sorrow I felt when my second plane prematurely met its end. However, I also know that I learned a huge amount from my instructors. If I had learned on my own I would have missed out on their experience.

I've also seen my share of planes that students brought to the field thinking they were ready for their first flight. I can tell you that MANY would have gone home in a trash bag if it weren't for one of two sets of experienced eyes going over them. Time on a sim is valuable, but there's way more to getting a plane in the air than being able to wiggle the joysticks in the proper manner.
JD, please do tell us about your experience. Help us understand your qualifications to determine what's best for a student. Share with us stories of some of the students you've helped train. We're all ears (well, eyes). :D

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Sure, that's it, we've been doing this too long. :D A very small minority manages to learn to fly on their own with a sim and suddenly anyone who suggests that method is less than ideal is giving outdated information. As I've said, there's much more to flying than one can get with as sim. While some can learn this way, it's less than ideal, and way more fail tham succeed. Most people understand the value of learning from experience. Others feel they need to rediscover things on their own. Oh well, to each his own.

RE: Flying without and instructor
 

Ge Force, I still suggest calling a few of the clubs in your area. You might discover that one of the members lives near you and could help arrange transportation to one of the clubs.

However, if you end up going it on your own, pick something slow, durable, and repairable. I recently put together a GWS Slow Stick. I'm pleased with how easy it is to fly and how durable it appears to be. When you are ready to try flying for the first time, remember that you'll need much more room than you think. Small backyards, busy schoolyards or parks with lots of people playing are not good places to try flying. You need lots of space, and you should not be anywhere where you will fly near or over people, cars, houses, etc. Consider a place with long grass, it softens unexpected landings. Set the control throws on the flying surfaces at the minimums suggested by the manufacturer, and remember to not over control when you try flying. Be sure you choose a plane with good spare parts availability, just in case. ;)