Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

//// CAUTION: This advice does not apply to every beginner

I came into this hobby when a friend of mine sold two Mustang kits and a
SuperTigre 90 to me for practically pennies. Little did I know at the time,
these products are generally more suited to the advanced RC pilot. As I
began asking around about my proposed build, I got the usual feedback
that I was in way over my head. With that in mind, I bought an Edge540
to practice with, thinking that some taildragger practice would prep me
for flying the Stangs. It was marketed as flying like a low-wing trainer,
and the deal I got was less expensive than many trainers available. Plus,
the manufacturer has a half-price replacement policy in the event of a
crash within 6-months of purchase.

As I proceeded to build the Edge540, I began hearing the same negative
feedback from the same folks: hobby-shop guys, RC instructors, as well
as other pilots. They all told me that I was guaranted to crash unless
I first bought and flew a trainer. They didn't even want to hear why I
thought I was different than most beginners. Mostly, I was not interested
in purchasing yet another practice plane at the cost of an additional
hundred+ dollars. I decided to plow forward, and take a chance that I
just might just be able to start with a fairly advanced plane.

At this point, I'd like to explain why I expected myself to be capable of
doing something that is generally regarded as being impossible in this
hobby. I have been flying regular cockpit-view simulators for over a decade.
I fully know about accelerated stalls, engine torque effects, cross-wind
landings, and many of the other challanges of true flight. I also set up my
favorite warbird sim (IL2:Pacific Fighters) as an RC simulator with a ground-
based camera view. When I was able to take off and land on my first try,
I felt even more confident that I could proceed with the Edge540. I couldn't
be more glad that I did.

Because I received so much negativity from every potential RC instructor
about my bold decision to take an accelerated learning path, I decided not
to seek assistance with my first flight. I was not interested in hearing the
endless "I told you so's" if I crashed. Also, if an instructor has already
made up his mind that you will crash, I think that puts somewhat of a hex
on the flight in the first place. Frankly, I was tired of hearing again and again
from every person I talked to that I was incapable of accomplishing my goal.
I actually started feeling BAD about my decision, and it got to the point that I
didn't event want to talk about my plane. That's not how a hobby should be.

So it was that I made my first RC flight with an Edge540 and without an
instructor. In spite of the challanges, I was able to perform several take-offs
and landings, to trim my aircraft for level flight, barrel roll, and then make a
successful deadstick landing after the engine stopped. My experiences with
regular flight sims had enabled me to do what has been deemed impossible.

While I feel that I made the right choice for myself, I would like to make it clear
that I am NOT recommending this training path for most learner pilots. Remember
that I have an extensive background in flight dynamics through my simulator
experience. I simply felt compelled to state that (contrary to popular belief),
nothing is impossible, and that ultimately YOU should be the judge of your own
abilities. Don't let anybody push you into a direction that you don't feel right
about. Just be very sure that you are truly ready if you decide to take an
accelerated learning route. I took lots of time making sure that I had built and
installed everything correctly before even thinking about flight.


Attached is a photograph of my airplane. It is a SkyShark RC Edge 540. I cannot
recommend this company enough. This plane has taken a great amount of learners
abuse from me, and she still flies fine.

Three videos of my first RC flight day can be downloaded from here (in a zip file):

PLEASE NOTICE: this website requires you to wait 30 seconds to download. Annoying but free ;)
After 30 seconds, you will have a link to download at the bottom-right of the screen.

1) FLY-BY: http://www.webfilehost.com/?mode=viewupload&id=4263810
2) LANDING: http://www.webfilehost.com/?mode=viewupload&id=4082080
3) TOUCH & GO: http://www.webfilehost.com/?mode=viewupload&id=7186994



Regards,

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

Just a quick note: most people here on RCU dont think its impossible to learn on one's own without an instructor and without a trainer. Just thats its much more challenging and the chances of succeeding are much smaller. Congratulations on being one of the few that can do it. Most cant, and will not succeed in the hobby. Thats why people here advise the AMA/club/instructor/trainer path. Its a sure way to get started successfully, thats all, and usually to much less expense too! ;)

I also fly Il2-AEP-PF....how did you manage to use your transmitter with it? I'd like to try it too. If you used a jopystick, I'm not quite sure how this would have helped you get ready for R/C flight. ;)

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

Mr. Spitfire,

I certainly recognize that the safe path is the best path for most,
especially for those who are new to flying in general. That is the
reason that I wanted to stress that the advanced path is generally
NOT recommended, even by me after my own successes! The last
thing I want to do is steer somebody in the wrong direction. I only
want to provide encouragement and proof of concept to others who
may find themselves in my same situation. I can't tell you how
many times I almost broke down and bought that trainer. Not that
it would have been a terrible way to go, but in my financial situation,
that would have put me months behind where I am now.

All in all, the thrill of challanging myself made the experience of
achieving flight that much better, and SCARIER!

To answer your question, you can find complete details of how to use
IL2 Pacific Fighters for an RC flight sim here:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_42...tm.htm#4260915

Feel free to contact me (via personal mesage) if you have any questions.

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

Among the reasons instructors do not recommend trying to learn to fly on your own include:
1) It will nearly always lead to failure.
2) It is EXTREMELY UNSAFE!
3) Doing this at a club field, without the club's permission exposes the club to lawsuits and losing the use of their field.

If you did what you alledge to have done, you are extremely lucky that you didn't hurt yourself or someone else.

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

Please allow me to address your concerns:
1) Nearly always perhaps, but certainly not always. That was the point of my post. To say that nothing is impossible.
2) As is visible in the videos, I have full control of the aircraft. Never once did it feel out of control.
3) I did not fly at an AMA sponsored club, but rather at a place called the Utah Model Port, a state park. No AMA liscence is required to fly. Paying $4 a day beats paying the expensive club fees, what with the added newcomer charges and everything. That's one way to attract new members.

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

Well I can't seem to view anything from these video links, just a bunch of adds.[:'(]

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

Congrats on a successful flight....

but I tend to lean with Piper... especially number 2... agreed it is not impossible to do what you did... but an experienced pilot would actually KNOW what is unsafe and in control...

again.. I am glad it worked out for you, but I just can't condone it.......

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

There is no license to fly from the AMA. The biggest reason that most clubs require you to belong to the AMA is so there is liability insurance on you in the even that your plane injures someone or damages someone else's property. With the possibility of a liability lawsuit settling for well over a million dollars the small $58 membership fee is a very small price to pay. There have been several recent cases that they AMA's insurance has paid out on claims in excess of a million dollars, without this insurance you would more than likely be held personally liable for that amount of money.

I understand that you were successfully able to get your plane up and back down safely by yourself. I commend you on that, you are one in a thousand. But it wouldn't hurt for you to spend a little time with an instructor anyway. There are a lot more things an instructor teaches his students than just getting the plane up and back down. One of the biggest would be safe operation of your plane. I'm not talking about saving the plane. I'm talking about not endangering other people that are around you. This is where you need to learn to be safe, and safely operate your plane. It may seem like a minor thing to you, but think about what it would feel like if you were hit by one of those airplanes. And yes, I do know what it feels like. I have been hit by a plane before. It was a plane piloted by a pilot that was trying to fly more plane than he was ready for. But he was sure he could handle it, and none of us knew him "well enough" to judge him when we said not to fly it. He also was not following the safety rules at the club and wound up over the pits and parking lot of the field. Trust me, it's not a nice feeling to get hit by it.

There are a lot more things involved with this hobby. If you plan on staying with it for more than a little bit it would do you well to learn the rest of it now.

Ken

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

Let's take a closer look at this.

You are to be congratulated for the succesful flights. Now let's look at your logic.

1.) $4 per day, lets say you fly 1 day a week for a year, thats 52 times 4 or $208 most clubs where I am are 50 for the first year and 35 there after plus the 58 for the AMA that gives you insurance. I'll bet you may be flying more than 1 day per week so the cost will go up at the "park"

2.) Although you do not say it you do imply that rules may be a problem for you which you would have to deal with in a club.

3.) How sure are you that no other club is within the 3 mile range of your transmitter. I'm talking line of sight, not road miles.

Now again I think it's good that you can do it on your own and especailly with the Edge540, you will learn that this plane will NOT get you ready for Warbirds and the Edges wing loading is fairly light when compared to just about any warbird, but I have to agree with everyone else. The cavalier attitude towards safety has me concerned, not to mention no apparent knowledge of an AMA club close enough that you can shoot down a very expensive plane that someone is following the recommended path. BTW, I did some searching, there appears to be a club close by to where you are flying.

A lot of RC pilots take it seriously, We are well aware it's a hobby and it is fun, but there is a danger factor involved. There have been people killed by these planes

Good luck

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

I fully believe that it is entirely possible for one to learn to fly without an instructor if you use a simulator and thoroughly master all of the basics of how to control an airplane. However, I that learning to fly alone when it is not necessary is not good. As has been said, there are a million ways to get in trouble with an RC plane, most of which have nothing to do with flight, but more to do with proper setup and preparation. You dont know what you dont know, that is why it is good to seek help if at all possible anytime you embark on an endeavour that could possibly harm someone else or somepne elses property.

I say good for you that you flew successfully without an instructor, you were very fortunate to have made it through without any bad experiences. Im glad no one else got hurt. [8D]

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

Please see the note about the 30 second wait (near the links)



Good to know. Thanks for the info.



Sheesh - the two closest clubs to me charge $120 and $180 for the first year. Then the cost of the AMA membership on top of it. Now that I understand that it buys me some insurance, I'll reconsider the latter.

The Utah Model Port is not within 3 miles of an AMA field



O.K., so no one actually said that. Well, at least in those words :)

Point taken. I agree that it was short-sighted to think that my aircraft was the biggest thing at stake.
It's just hard for me sit there and listen to one guy after another tell me that I can't do something that
I know in my bones I can do, so I was reluctant to give one of these guys permission to fly my
airplane while I watch as he explains why it is too much plane for me. But just the same, I'll be sure to
have someone with experience with me next time.

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

in my opinion, one of the things you will miss out the most on, by not joining a club, is the comradery with other members.

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

Ill have to agree with that. I'm not usually a very social person, but I really enjoy the group of people I fly with. Plus, they teach you a lot of stuff you would probably never learn without them.

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

I agree,,, all of us lined up on a Sunday afternoon like crows on a fence is my favorite part of a day at the field!

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

Please see the note about the 30 second wait (near the links)



I waited the 30 seconds on each one. The vids are the only thing on the page of adds that I can't click on. If I need to install their program to view the vids no thanks, I've seen all the safety rules broken before.[sm=lol.gif]

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

Congrats! It appears the simulator made a big difference in your success.

As others have already said, your success is not the norm. If others have told you it was 'impossible' then as you noted they were wrong. I believe it has been their experience that people who try to fly on their own without any training have failed, so that is why they say that. I have not been on RCU for a long time, but there have been a lot of posts from new pilots that say they are going to do it, then a few weeks later you read where they are asking where to get replacement parts, how to repair this or that, etc.

For me, I did not need an instructor to learn to fly. I was a flight instructor so I understand aerodynamics, flight protocols, safety etc. But flying RC is different than flying full scale and flying simulators. I'm glad I did find an instructor because they taught me a lot more than just how to fly. Like other replies here, they teach safety, flying rules, how to assemble, preflight, tune, etc. And they are a great resource on "how tos". Also, clubs have meetings where you can socialize and hear stories (mainly lies hahaha) that may help you grow in the hobby. Plus you can get some great deals on parts, etc!

Whatever you decide to do, congrats on your solo. Please focus on safety now.

Regards.

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

Flight sims are amazing.

I took the path of building a trainer over the winter and when I wasn't in the shop, I was flying the flight sim. Probably 200 times before the real plane was done.

I had an instructor (my Dad 30+ years of RC flying), AMA card, club membership, etc..... the "normal" path.

My point is how valuable the flight sims are. During the initial flights with the trainer, I never once had to have a correction input from his box. It was very comforting to know he was there and could control the plane at a moments notice, however it was never needed. The first solo flight brought back a ton of nerves, but all was well and now I'm 100+ flights on the plane and no problems. Still flying the same prop from day one!

As a matter of fact, I am going to maiden a new second plane tomorrow morning!

Congrats on your flight and I can totally understand your point of view, and all the others as well. Safety is huge and I think everyone makes very valid points. I know what you mean about truly knowing you can do it and then executing! It's awesome!

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

As is mentioned in my first post, the link to download appears
at the BOTTOM RIGHT of the screen. You will see a count-down
timer at the bottom right, then then it will turn into a download
link after the 30 seconds.

Don't worry about security. I downloaded and tested the videos
myself and they worked fine.

I think that website makes revenue my tricking it's visitors into
clicking the links. Real nice.

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

I can't agree with you more. But only if they are used correctly. I have seen students come out that have a lot of sim time before they have ever even met an instructor and they have learned bad flying habits that had to be "un-learned" first, which actually increased their training time. This doesn't happen to everybody, but it can and does happen. Here's a list of some of the "bad" habits one can develop:
1) Failing to keep the plane straight during takeoff run.
2) Climbing out too steep.
3) Not maintaining a constant altitude while turning.
4) Turns that aren't smooth, too sharp, etc.
5) Forgetting that there is a left stick.
6) Not lining up with the runway during landing approach.
7) Using ailerons instead of rudder to make course corrections when landing.
8) Using the elevator to extend the landing when you realize you're short.
9) Failure to learn the signs that a plane is about to stall, and what to do to avoid it, or recover from it.

The best use of a simulator is to use it to practice what you are taught each flying session. I encourage everybody to let their instructors know that they have a simulator to use, a good instructor will use the simulator as a tool in part of the training process. They should tell the student what to work on using the simulator between training sessions. Using it this way can drastically shorten the training time that it takes to get a student to solo flight.

I'm not trying to rain on anybody's parade by saying this. But rather I just wanted to point out that it's possible to pick up bad habit from using a simulator.

Ken

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

I agree, the physics of RC are very different in some ways. The most notable difference
seems to be the power-to-weight balance. This is obvious during normal flight, but it is
especially noticable after an engine failure as the plane looses speed rapidly. I figure that
this is because it has less momentum (less relative mass) to keep it moving. It seems like
a regular plane glides better than an RC plane.

What do you think?

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

RCU encourages users to use [link=http://www.putfile.com]www.putfile.com[/link] for hosting videos. [link=http://www.youtube.com]www.youtube.com[/link] is another alternative for hosting videos. Both of these are free to host and there isn't any delay before you can view the videos.

To be totally honest with you I didn't even look at your videos because of the 30 second delay.

Ken

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

I think you were lucky not to cut your fingers off before you even got it into the air. All of the simulators in the world do not teach you how to start and maintain a glow engine. How did you even figure out how to start the darn thing? I bet someone somewhere helped you with that. So, in that sense, you did not do it completely on your own.
What are you going to do when the weather changes, and your engine won't run right. Tuning an engine is an art, and takes a lot of practice, and a lot of help from experienced people (at first).
Did you range check the radio before flight? What if it would have lost comm--you were in a public park. You could have killed someone's little child.
People should think about their actions to a degree more than just how they apply to themselves.
Good luck. I hope your 6 months aren't up, because I suspect that you'll be needing that 1/2 off coupon pretty soon.

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

In spite of the warning the original post does not apply to all beginners, more should be said for their benefit.

A successful first flight isn't just about twiddling the sticks.

In the last year of helping new flyers who've shown up with their new, just bought models...........

Almost every one of them had a brand new engine on them. None of those had been broken in. The ones that had used engines on them universally had gunk-stuck engines on them. One of those showed up without the needle. None of the engines started and ran with the needle settings they hit the field with. Everyone of the newbies were surprised about the break-in. Not a one of them seemed to understand setting the needle until it was demonstrated. None of the engines would hold an idle that would land the model at less than Mach One. There is more to say but that oughta be enough about newbies and engines.............

Every new airplane I saw had at least one servo-horn connection that would cause some kind of problem. The used ones were worse. (ever wonder why somebody is selling a "perfectly good" model?) I've yet to see a newbie who had any real understanding of how to setup the controls so the airplane would fly at least decently. So they're going to be learning to fly on a model that an experienced pilot would have trouble with. One model had MAJOR differential.... on the elevator. It rested in neutral, but moved a lot with down and almost none with up.

I've seen two newbies out of the many who actually weren't surprised by the term, "center of gravity". One of them went to lengths about how well his airplane was balanced and wanted to blow off our checking it. And guess what.........

I've seen one airplane that had the nose wheel turn the same as the rudder. If that guy had flown by himself..........

I've seen one airplane that had the ailerons move in the same direction. If I remember correctly, left stick moved both down, and right stick moved them up. The newbie got hot about that. Said he'd done it exactly the way it said to do it in the book and was going to write the mfg.

I've seen a number of connectors that were so tight in the horns that they squeaked. Seen connectors that weren't snapped shut. Seen pushrods that couldn't push the surface with the airplane sitting on the ground because the rods were too light, or weren't supported, or were glued to the fuselage, etc.............

Some of the worst airplanes were bought used and came with, "it flies like a dream" still echoing in the breeze.

Nah, looking for an experienced modeler to help you with your first flight isn't just about twiddling the sticks the right way.

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

IL2windhawk,
It is true that full scale pilots do understand what makes the planes fly, but there are other issues at hand. The biggest issue that I've seen with full scale pilots coming into RC is the matter of perspective. Full scale pilot are controlling the plane and reacting to what they see and feel inside of the plane. When they are placed on the ground controlling a RC plane their points of reference are now gone. Remember, when a pilot in a full scale pulls the stick to the right the plane goes to the right which is still the pilots right, but when a RC pilot has a plane coming towards him and he moves the stick to the right the plane moves to its right which is the pilots LEFT!! This throws off a lot of full scale pilots. I'm not saying this is you by any means. But I can't even begin to count how many times I've heard a full scale pilot say something like "I fly real planes, so it's gonna be easy for to fly this little toy!!!". :eek: In fact, sometimes the worst RC students are the full scale pilots. Why?? Well, I have noticed that one big part of any successful full scale pilot is his "ego", or bravado, or whatever you want to call it, and they just don't like admitting that they can't fly a "toy" airplane!! :D:D

Please don't think I am saying this about you, I'm merely pointing it out for others that are reading this. This something that almost every RC instructor has seen at least once while they are instructing. Heck, we even had this happen at our field not too long ago. Two guys show up at the field an pull out a gorgeous P-51 to fly. Well, we have a pretty small group that uses our field so we know who flies out there and since we didn't know these guys I went over to talk to them. I asked if they were new to the area, they said no but they had just gotten into RC. So I asked them if they needed help getting started. Their answer was "No, we fly the 'real' planes so this is no problem at all." Ok fine!!! I headed back to the bleachers and told everybody to sit down and enjoy the show. They messed around for about 30 minutes or so until they finally got the motor running and got out to the taxi way (btw, they didn't even ask about frequency control. and they were on the same channel as another flier who luckily wasn't in the air when they turned on). I'm sure everybody knows the end of this story. They got up off of the runway, rolled over and plowed into the ground. They picked up the pieces, got in their car, and left. And we haven't ever seen them since.

Ken

RE: Nothing is Impossible: Edge540, my Beginner Plane
 

Absolutely correct. In 10 years of flying and over 6 years of instructing I have NEVER seen a new pilot bring out an airplane that didn't have something wrong with it. Every one that I have ever checked needed something corrected or fixed before it was ready to fly.

Ken