firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

ok, you all seem helpful so i'll see what you have to say about this problem im having. I have always wanted to get into RC. So i just bought myself a Firebird Commander 2 because it seemed to be a really good starter plane. Well i got it and put it all together and actually read the directions and all that. Problem is, my plane seems to have a love affair with the ground. When i hand launch it it heads downward and off the ground it wont really climb. i have two batteries and they are getting charged and ive fiddled with the tail screws but still no air. what am i doing wrong? any suggestions from you pros? im starting to wonder if this is really a hobby i should get into if i cant even get the beginner plane in the air. help!

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

I'm not really good wioth this plane but I have seen a few do the same thing and it always seemd the rear "elevators" (v-tail had the trims set wrong) It could also be the way you are hand lauching it. You really do not throw it, you go to full throttle, point it into the wind and toss it gently at a very slight angle upwards, then quickly add up elevator to get the plane to climb. Be careful not to add to much "up" as this will cause the plane to quit flying (called a stall) then come rioght down into the ground

Also, see if there is a club close by, a lot of times most people will gladly help even non-members help to get a plane flying but some will not unless you join.

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

You can tighten the 2 rear elevators(the gray knobs that fit a screwdriver) "up" even if they are past the tail to give it more lift. They real key is to give it full throttle until you are high enough. My buddy has the same plane and I flew it fine once it was going. Without elevator you need throttle to stay in the air.

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

I'm sorry, I really hate to bad-mouth someone's new toy, but [&:][&:][&:], I too made the mistake of buying this thing back when I was still trying to learn to fly RC. I was already working with a real glow Trainer but I thought I would get something cheap that I could go to the park with by myself whenever I wanted to & not be too terribly bummed if I crashed it. It didn't take long to figure out that these things are pretty much just toy junk!! It flew ok the very first day I flew it in about an 8 mph wind or so but after that on calm days I never did get it to fly again. Same thing over & over again. Throw it into the wind (for what it was worth) at full throttle & watch it glide straight to the ground in about 20 to 30 ft of distance. I finally go so disgusted with the stupid thing that I gave it away.:D

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

The Firebird Commander 2 is not a plane I normally recommend as a first plane, but if you fly it in calm air it can be a lot of fun.
Make sure you are launching the plane out flat, not up. This is a common mistake of new pilots. They think they should hand launch it up, but that leads to crashes. Flat and straight. More on this can be found here:

Throwing up will make you sick - read from the first post
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_32...tm.htm#3708346


Take a look at this article and see if you get some tips that might help you.

SIX KEYS TO SUCCESS
by Ed Anderson
aeajr on the forums

Whether you have a coach or you are trying to learn to fly on your own, you
will need to be mindful of these six areas if you are going to become a
successful RC pilot. After three years of working with new flyers at our
club,
and coaching flyers on the forums, there are a few things I have seen as the
key areas to stress for new pilots. Some get it right away and some have to
work at it. They are in no particular order because they all have to be
learned to be successful.

WIND
Orientation
Speed
Altitude
Over Control
Preflight Check

1) Wind - The single biggest cause of crashes that I have observed has been
the insistence upon flying in too much wind. If you are under an
instructor's
control or on a buddy box, then follow their advice, but if you are starting
out and tying to learn on your own, regardless of the model, I recommend
dead calm to 3 MPH for the slow stick and tiger moth type planes. Under 5
MPH for all others. That includes gusts. An experienced pilot can handle
more. It is the pilot, more than the plane, that determines how much wind
can be
handled.

The wind was around 10 mph steady with gusts to 12. That was strong enough
that some of the experienced pilots flying three and four channel small
electric planes chose not to launch their electrics. This new flyer
insisted that he wanted to try his two and three channel parkflyers. Crash,
Crash, Crash - Three planes in pieces. He just would not listen. Sometimes
you just have to let them crash. There is no other way to get them to
understand.

Many parkflyers can be flown in higher winds by AN EXPERIENCED PILOT. I
have flown my Aerobird in 18 mph wind (clocked speed) but it is quite
exciting trying to land it.

Always keep the plane up wind from you. There is no reason for a new flyer
to have the plane downwind EVER!


2) Orientation - Knowing the orientation of your plane is a real challenge,
even for experienced pilots. You just have to work at it and some adults
have a real problem with left and right regardless of which way the plane is
going. Licensed pilots have a lot of trouble with this one as they are
accustomed to being in the plane.

Here are two suggestions on how to work on orientation when you are not
flying.

Use a flight simulator on your PC. Pick a slow flying model and fly it a
lot. Forget the jets and fast planes. Pick a slow one. Focus on left and
right coming at you. Keep the plane in front of you. Don't let it fly over
your head.

FMS is a free flight simulator. It is not the best flight sim, but the
price is right and it works. There are also other free and commercial
simulators.

FMS Flight simulator Home Page
Free download
http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html

Parkflyers for FMS
http://gunnerson.homestead.com/files/fms_models.htm

Getting Started with FMS
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3893

The links below take you to sites that provide cables that work with FMS.
If your radio has a trainer port, these cables allow you to use the trainer
port on your radio to "fly" the simulator. This is an excellent training
approach.

http://www.allthingsrc.com/webshop/
http://www.simblaster.com/
http://www.customelectronics.co.uk/

An alternative is to try an RC car that has proportional steering. You
don't have to worry about lift, stall and wind. Get something with left and
right steering and speed control. Set up an easy course that goes toward
and away from you with lots of turns. Do it very slowly at first until you
can make the turns easily. Then build speed over time. You'll get it! If
it has sticks rather than a steering wheel even better, but not required.
Oh, and little cars are fun too.


3) Too much speed - Speed it the enemy of the new pilot but if you fly
too slowly the wings can't generate enough lift, so there is a compromise
here. The key message is that you don't have to fly at full throttle all the
time. Most small electrics fly very nicely at 2/3 throttle and some do quite
well at 1/2. That is a much better training speed than full power. Launch
at full power and climb to a good height, say 100 feet as a minimum, so you
have time to recover from a mistake. At 100 feet, about double the height
of the trees where I live, go to half throttle and see how the plane
handles. If it holds altitude on a straight line, this is a good speed.
Now work on slow
and easy turns, work on left and right, flying toward you and maintaining
altitude. Add a little throttle if the plane can't hold altitude.


4) Not enough altitude - New flyers are often afraid of altitude. They
feel safer close to the ground. Nothing could be more wrong.

Altitude is your friend. Altitude is your safety margin. It gives you a
chance to fix a mistake. If you are flying low and you make a mistake ....
CRUNCH!

As stated above I consider 100 feet, about double tree height where I live,
as a good flying height and I usually fly much higher than this. I advise
my
new flyers that fifty feet, is minimum flying height. Below that you better
be lining up for landing.


5) Over control - Most of the time the plane does not need input from you.
Once you get to height, a properly trimmed plane flying in calm air will
maintain its height and direction with no help from you. In fact anything
you do will interfere with the plane.

When teaching new pilots I often do a demo flight of their plane. I get the
plane to 100 feet, then bring the throttle back to a nice cruising speed. I
get it going straight, with plenty of space in front of it, then take my
hand off the sticks and hold the radio out to the left with my arms spread
wide to emphasize that I am doing nothing. I let the plane go wherever it
wants to go, as long as it is holding altitude, staying upwind and has
enough room. If you are flying a high wing trainer and you can't do this,
your plane is out of trim.

Even in a mild breeze with some gusts, once you reach flying height, you
should be able to take your hand off the stick. Oh the plane will move
around and the breeze might push it into a turn, but it should continue to
fly with no help from you.

Along this same line of thinking, don't hold your turns for more than a
couple of seconds after the plane starts to turn. Understand that the plane
turns by
banking or tilting its wings. If you hold a turn too long you will force
the plane to deepen this bank and it will eventually lose lift and go into a
spiral dive and crash. Give your inputs slowly and gently and watch the
plane. Start your turn then let off then turn some more and let off. Start
your turns long before you need to and you won't need to make sharp turns.

I just watch these guys hold the turn, hold the turn, hold the turn, crash.
Of course they are flying in 10 mph wind, near the ground, coming toward
themselves at full throttle.

6) Preflight check - Before every flight it is the pilot's responsibility to
confirm that the plane, the controls and the conditions are correct and
acceptable for flight.

Plane - Batteries at proper power
Surfaces properly aligned
No damage or breakage on the plane
Everything secure

Radio - Frequency control has been met before you turn on the radio
A full range check before the first flight of the day
All trims and switches in the proper position for this plane
Battery condition is good
Antenna fully extended
For computer radios - proper model is displayed
All surfaces move in the proper direction

Conditions - No one on the field or in any way at risk from your fight
You are launching into the wind
Wind strength is acceptable ( see wind above )
Sunglasses and a hat to protect your eyes
All other area conditions are acceptable.

Then and only then can you consider yourself, your plane, radio and the
conditions right for flight. Based on your plane, your radio and local
conditions you may need to add or change something here, but this is the
bare minimum. It only takes a couple of minutes at the beginning of the
flying
day and only a few seconds to perform before each flight.

If this all seems like too much to remember, do what professional pilots do,
take along a preflight check list. Before every flight they go down
the check list, perform the tests, in sequence, and confirm that all is
right.
If you want your flying experience to be a positive one, you should do the
same. After a short time, it all becomes automatic and just a natural part
of a fun and rewarding day.

I hope some of this is useful in learning to fly your plane.

Other resources you may find useful:


Books on RC Planes and RC Flying

http://www.stevensaero.com/shop/prod...cat=262&page=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...Fencoding=UTF8

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...Fencoding=UTF8

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

So you think I should not try to fly on calm days but when there's wind? The days i tried it out it was very calm.

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

I tried the launching straight not up or down. Also tried the off the ground takeoff too. No dice. Frustrations abound. I appreciate your all's input tho to help a noob. I'm sure you get so many newbie posts asking the same sorts of things. Are there anymore suggestions? If not, what beginner plane would you suggest that is better? Thanks again

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

writetoaaron, I'm not really sure. As I said I never really had much success with the darn thing. I just know that the day I did fly it, it was windier than the book suggested that it be flown in. Then everytime after that with no wind to speak of I couldn't get it to climb out, it just glided right back to the ground. It felt to me like yes it needed some wind in it's face to create lift. From reading numerous threads of other ppl having pretty much the same problem with that plane since then, it also sounds like one of my harder landings may have knocked the fuse loose or something like that but I'm not really sure. By the time I had read different things to check on it I had already given up on it & gave it away. I hope you will have better luck with it than I did. Check old threads about this thing too. I know there have been a few that list exactly what to check & how to make sure everything is lined up & adjusted correctly. Apparently once these things are done right it is supposed to fly pretty well. I just never got mine too. Hope this helps in some way.

I would read thru the stuff aeajr put up for you too. He seems to be pretty knowledgable when it comes to electrics. Much more so than I am.

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: writetoaaron


writetoaaron

This was written for Aerobird 3 channel flyers,b ut it may provide some helpful tips for you. I don't know hte condition of your plane, what kinds of crashes you have had or if you have damaged the plane. There is good info on your manual on how to adjust and tune the plane. I presume you have been using that.

Take a look here. Remember, the Aerobird Challenger has a V tail, like yours, but it has elevator funciton which the Commander does not have.


I have an Aerobird and an Aerobird Challenger. Combined I have over 600
flights on them. I have taught several people to fly their Aerobirds. Here
is the procedure I tell people to follow to get the plane to fly properly. I
can't be sure how much damage you have done to the plane due to crashes, so
let me just offer this as a starter.

Unless you have removed the white foam that sits between the battery and the
electronics, ignore CG for the moment. Do all of your flight testing with
the
6 cell battery. The 7 cell makes it nose heavy and will change the way it
flies. When we are trying to fix it, I would use the 6 cell only.

1) With your transmitter on and all trims centered, and your battery
connected
in the plane, but with the motor off, look at the control surfaces on the
tail
from the back. Are the movable parts exactly even with the fixed parts? If
not then you are going into a turn the moment you launch assuming the motor
is
straight and the tail is straight. More on that later. Normally, these
surfaces have to be
perfectly aligned.

2) The boom between the pod an the tail - is it solidly anchored or can you
move it around inside the plane. If it moves, it has broken loose. This must
be
fixed. It will either sag causing the nose to go down or it is twisted
causing
the plane to turn right or left.

3) Check the tail, especially by the rigid plastic near the boom. Are there
any creases? I had a problem with my Aerobird that caused it to turn to the
right so badly that it crashed because it would go into a spiral. I tried
everything. Turned out there was a crease in the tail that caused the tail
to
flex under pressure. On launch, this could take you into the ground.

4) It is possible for the tail to shift from a severe nose crash. There are
trim instructions in the owner's manual. AFTER you have checked the other
items and
fixed or found them to be OK, try trimming the tail for more up or down
force.


Other points to be aware of:

When the motor is running, more air moves across the tail so that you get a
faster response for turns. The slower the motor is running, the slower the
plane will respond. When gliding, response can be very soft.

Make sure you are launching into the wind - directly into the wind, or the
plane will be turned by the wind when you launch. Same for landing.

Let me know how it goes.

If this doesn't help, I invite you to post photos.

These are what I would
want to see: All shots are with battery in and transmitter on, motor off.
All trims to center and not touching the stick unless I tell you to. All
tests are in Sport mode.

view from nose to tail - level with the top of the plane - to check
alignments
view from tail to nose - same reason

Remove the wing, lay the plane on a table on its side with the tail hanging
off the end. Place a ruler or a suitable straight edge under the body
extending to the tail. I want to see if the boom
is straight

surface alignment - battery connected, transmitter on - make sure your trims
are centered

For the shots from tail, I want you to center the motor in the frame so that
you are shooting STRAIGHT down the shaft.

view from the tail at tail height - full left command
view from the tail at tail height - full right
same - full up
same - full down
sticks centered and hands off shot.
Finally view from under the tail.

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

You asked for suggestions:

Getting your first plane? What should you get?

If you have an instructor, follow his/her advice as to what to get as your
plane. Getting info here is good, but discuss it with the instructor before
you buy.

If you are going to be helping a new flyer learn to fly, this thread might
be helpful. Here is the method I use to teach:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=499281
Helping people Learn to Fly
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5767

RTF, ARF or KIT? What does this mean?

An RTF, Ready-To-Fly, typically requires virtually no building. Everything
is built. You attach the wing and perhaps the tail and you are done.
Typical investment of time is 15 minutes to 2 hours. The Aerobird
Challenger is a
good example of an RTF plane.
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/prod...p?prod=HBZ3500
RTFs ALWAYS include an installed radio system an may also include the
battery and charger.

ARF vs kit. How are they different? Depends on your definition.

ARFs and kits always require you to buy and install the electronics.
However some of the makers, such as Mountain Models and GWS,
offer select packages that include the kit and the electronics. You still
have to assemble/build, but all the guess work is taken out of what
electronics to buy. This makes it very easy for the first time builder
to get it right. The radio itself is usually not included in these
"complete packages"

Most wood KITS are a box of sticks and sheet parts that are cut from larger
sheets. You glue them together to form the structure then you cover it with
heat shrink film, some other covering, or paint the finished structure.
Build time could run 10-30 hours including gluing, covering and fitting out
with
the electronics. The Mountain Models Switchback would be an example.
http://www.mountainmodels.com/switchback.php

As an example, Mountain Models wood kits, are typically very complete and
often include the motor, the hardware and the covering material. For some
people, kit building is as much or more fun than flying the planes. If you
want to tackle your first wood kit, Mountain kits have an outstanding
reputation for ease and completeness. This thread talks about their planes:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295225

Wood ARFs are typically kits that are already built and covered into major
structures such as fuselage, wings, tail, etc. Here you are doing final
assembly. The Ascent is a good example.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...ProdID=EFL1075
Typical build time is in the 3-10 hour range. Much less time and
much less skill is required. Then you install the electronics.
Here are some examples from Great Planes:

All foam kits, in my opinion, are more similar to ARFs than they are to wood
kits. They typically consist of large molded pieces that glue or friction
fit together. typical is 3-10 hours to complete. The Graupner Tipsey is a
good example.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/tipsy.htm
Some foam kits call for covering but the Tipsy, for example, does not.
When required, covering can often be done with tape which can be very easy
for the new builder. So I consider most foam kits to be more ARF than kit.
Multiplex and GWS kits fall into this kit/ARF class and are usually very
complete. As a first step from an RTF, these can be very good choices.

Foam/wood kits are likely to require some stick and sheet assembly, but
typically much less work than an all wood kit. The Mountain Models
SmoothE is a good example.
http://www.mountainmodels.com/smoothe.php
The fuselage is wood but the wing is foam. Very easy for the first time
builder to be successful.

There are many other brands that provide very high quality products. I use
these companies as examples because I often recommend their planes.


SPACE

How much space do you have for flying? If you have totally clear space of
at least 600'X600', about 9 square acres, approx 4-6 6 square
football/soccer fields, then I can recommend one class of plane. Call this
class 1 - CL1

If your space is more like 200X200 (one square acre) then a different plane
is in order. Call this class 2 - CL2
If it is less than that, different again. This we will call this class 3 -
CL3

These are my own designations and are based on my subjective ranking of the
space a new flyer should have when learning on his own. An experienced
flyer can fly faster planes in smaller spaces, but a new flyer wants to have
more
space so you are not in a constant state of panic trying to turn. Now, you
can get above the edges of the field and expand your space, but if you lose
control, you drop in woods, on top of kids or smash someone's
windshield. If that windshield is in a car is traveling down a road when
you hit the windshield, you could cause an accident or worse.

So much for space. You get the idea.

I don't recommend pretty planes as first planes. They are too easy to
break, too hard to fix and look bad in short order. So you won't see any
especially pretty or true scale planes. Make one of those your second or
third plane.

I don't recommend two channel R/T electrics, so you won't find any on
the list. If you want one of these, I would suggest the Firebird series
from
HobbyZone. They can be very easy to fly and can be a lot of fun, but they
can also be very easy to lose. You should plan to fly them in dead calm air
when you are first starting.

I feel a high wing three channel R/E/T plane is your best choice for a first
plane. R/E/T will require a little more learning than the two channel R/E
planes but is a better choice as a first plane, in my opinion. These use
the same control inputs as more advanced planes and can be flown in
more wind once you have mastered them in calm conditions.

Below I list electric planes for beginners. Some come ready to fly, some are
almost ready to fly (add your own radio gear) and some are kits. All of them
are electric. If you are looking for your first plane, you should find
something here to peak your interest.

If you are totally new to RC Flying, this article may be helpful.


Six Keys to Success for new e-flyers
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355208


READY TO FLY STARTER PLANES - Electric Parkflyers
No building - they practically fly right out of the box
These also glide well so you can thermal soar
with them under the right conditions.


Slow-V from Parkzone - $140 -
I have flown the slo-V. My RTF of choice for small spaces.
Best flown in still to under 5 mph breeze. This is the best choice for
people who only have a small space to fly or who have an indoor
place to fly, such as a large gym or similar space.
http://h1071118.hobbyshopnow.com/pro...p?prod=PKZ1300
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2074785/tm.htm
Review
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=426
Video
http://users.cwnet.com/dhsc19/Slo_V_Aerobatics.wmv
Night fly module on a Slo-V
http://rc-galaxy.com/messageboard/mb...ViewMsg&num=-8

T-Hawk - RTF - Excellent Value - $150-170
I have flown the T-Hawk. Excellent first plane.
Comes with extra wing, tail and battery
Flies well and stands up to hard landings
Can be flown on 27 MHz or 72 MHz
http://www.toytx.com/thawk3chrtf.html
T-Hawk - Without Radio - add your radio and receiver
http://www.readytoflyfun.com/wittran.html
T-Hawk Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ighlight=THawk
Videos
http://www.readytoflyfun.com/thawkvideos.html

Easy Star - RTF - $170
I have flown the Easy Star - Great plane for new flyers!
Believe this goes easily back in the box to keep in the car
Super tough foam. Comes with 72 MHz radio in the US.
Good parkflyer and a good glider
Radio in RTF package can be used to fly other planes
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240025.asp
Easy Star - ARF - Add you own radio gear
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240009.asp
Build Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350408
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=459096
Videos
http://plawner.org/video/easygo.wmv
http://plawner.org/video/easystar.wmv
Mods, upgrades and more
http://www.mpx-easystar.de/
Add Ailerons - Start at post 195
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...&page=13&pp=15
Travel Box
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...5&goto=newpost

Aerobird Challenger - RTF Electric - $110 -
I started on an Aerobird RTF. I have over 600 flights on my Aerobirds. I
also thermal and slope soar this plane. Flies well and stands up to hard
landings.

Their add on fun accessories for night flying, air to air combat and drop
module add to the fun! Great keep in the car plane - take off the wing and
it goes
back in the box fully assembled. Most can't do that!
http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_planes_h...challenger.htm
Review
http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Disco...ID=1289#Page01
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147621
Video
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/aerobird_video.html
http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_videos/a...nger_loops.wmv

Hobbico Sky Fly - $100
I own one of these. About the best landing gear and ground
handling of the planes I list here
NOTE: Radio range is not stated. I would say 500 feet is safe and I send
mine out as much as 1000 feet without problems.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXKLV7&P=ML
Video
http://video1.hobbico.com/gallery/hc...961-deluxe.mpg
Review
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=489248
Discussion thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...t=493271&pp=15
Recommended wing reinforcement by mdp17681
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...8&postcount=16


ESSENTIAL ADD-ONS AN POINTS TO CONSIDER

When evaluating costs, add the following items to your list.

For the Aerobird and the Sky Fly
2 Spare wings ($25) and 1-2 battery packs ($20-$30 each)

The T-Hawk comes with spare wing, tail and two battery packs,
so factor that into the price and you will see it is closer in price
than it first appears. You might wish to add a 3rd battery pack.

For the Slo-V, two extra props and 1 gearbox seem to come in handy
as this is a front motor plane and these parts really take the damage
of nose in crashes. Don't know about other parts. The others are
pushers so props are less at risk. Add that extra 1-2 battery packs.

The Easy Star really does not need a spare wing or tail. The wing is
very tough and very repairable. The Easy Star is a little heavier than
the others, so add-on battery packs should be 7 cell 900 MAh or higher
2/3 or 4/5A packs, if you are using the RTF charger. The Aerobird 7
cell, or the parkzone 7 cell packs will work if you don't mind changing
connectors. The Easy Star RTF stock 6 cell is OK in calmer conditions
but get 7 add-ons. Figure at least 1 added battery pack at $25 each.

If you have an 8 cell charger you can go to 8 cells on the Easy Star, but
no more or you will burn up the motor. Be sure to check the balance with
the different battery packs.

The Easy Star and the T-Hawk are a little more versatile than the others
because they use standard electronics. Makes it easy to replace parts or
to upgrade the motor at a future date, if you wish.

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

Now balancing is something i havent thought of! How would i best go about balancing my commander2? How do i know when it is in balanced? I couldnt find anything in the manual, unless i am just blind. I have the stock 6 cell batt and i bought a 7 cell batt that can go with it. Would improper weight distribution cause it to do what i've described? Thanks again everyone

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

As noted in my post above, unless you have removed the white foam in the nose or between teh battery and the electronics, there is no need to worry about balance.

I have given you all the steps you need to diagnose what is wrong. In addition the manual has all kinds of tuning info.

The plane comes balanced and will be adequately balance with the 6 or 7 cell pack.

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

thanks again man! Im going to try some of that stuff next chance i get. the wind may make all the difference

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

A critical piece of advice to you and to all two channel pilots. Respect the
wind! REALLY RESPECT THE WIND!!!!!

These planes either have throttle and rudder or throttle and differential
thrust, which does about the same thing.

If you fly on a windy day you have a very high probability of losing the
plane. Why, because you have no way to fight the wind. If the plane gets
down wind from you, and it will, here is what happens. You hit the power to
fight the wind, but these planes climb when you hit the power, so instead of
coming back to you, they climb and as they climb, the wind pushes the plane
further away.

A very very experience two channel pilot can work around this through a series
of maneuvers called the death spiral. However, this is a difficult thing to
control for a new pilot. There is a fellow in our club who has lost two
Firebird Commanders to the wind. We finally convinced him to get an Aerobird.

A three channel plane with elevator control can push the nose down and dive
into the wind to come back. This is how gliders can fly against the wind
without motors.

So, don't fly your rudder/throttle or diff thrust plane in wind over 5 MPH
until you are very good with the plane. Don't get over 7 MPH until you can
easily fight your way back from a down wind position.


TIP

I don't know if this works for that Outlaw or the Scout, but for the Firebird,
II, sT, XL,
Fighterbird and Commander, if you put a popsicle stick under the back of the
wing, it lowers the angle of attack of the wing and the plane will not climb
as much on power application. If you learn to manage the plane well, this can
give you better penetration into the wind, but it still will not let you put
the nose down into the wind.

Enjoy these planes but remember, they are best flown in little to no wind.

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

Great post with great advice. I'm very new to RC flying and the FC2 is my first plane. And second as well (heh). What I've learned is how easy it is to over adjust things with this plane. Very mild tweaks such as half turns of the tail screws can make a big difference.As well as very slight rudder adjustments. Basically I beat the crap out of my first one, learned what I needed and bought a new one for me and one for a friend. I was able to share with him many of those lessons I learned the hard way. One thing more you might try is a quick tail waggle when you're losing altitude, I've saved a few nosedives that way.


S!
Guz

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

Aerobird Challenger would be an excellent next plane for you.

You can share wings and batteries between the commander and the Aerobird.

Get two combat modules and go air to air with them. :D

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

Glad I checked back in on this thread. I was wondering what would be a good step up. Had planned on going to the hobby store tomorrow and take a look for a new, better bird. Now, maybe you might know of a good site or thread that answers all my FC2 repair questions?

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

I have a Commander 2 and I love it. I flew it right out of the box with no adjustments.

It can be a challange to launch with low winds but I learned that if I take a few steps and throw it flat with WOT it does ok. It drops down a little and will almost touch the ground and then climbs out nicely. I have thought about adjusting the tail but it does climb pretty good and I dont want it to totaly take off in the wind.

I have used the lift under the back of the wing on windy days and it works great. I was out in about 5 to 7 mph wind and had no problems. It is a little faster with the lift and and can really cruise in a tail wind. Over all I really like the Commander 2 it is a hardy plane that took (and still takes) the abuse of a newbee very well.

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

I taught myself to fly with the commander 2, and it actually flies pretty good once your used to it, my first flight it would go up and then come down in about 40 feet. It can't really fly right out of the box, usually it takes some trimming to make it fly.

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

Same here..my first plane.... first time I took it out, it took me about 10 tries before I could ge it to launch without ccrashing....for me the key was to give it a GENTLE right turn to get it to gain altitude. And this thing is tuff. Some very hard landings and not a scratch...worse I did was come in too low near a baseball park and have it crash head on into the outfield chain link fence. All it did was pop the rubber nose off...fit right back on. Made a trip to Texas this weekend to see family and took it out to the cotton fields to fly...wind was around 8 to 15 mph.....way to high for this plane really but was bored and had LOTS of open space. Plane really flew well...when a big gust would come up it would basically hover in mid air at full throttle. Got some of my best landings along a dirt road that bordered the field...also bought me a parachute bomb attachment...that was fun dropping the parachute and having the kids run around trying to catch it. I did realize I should have gone with the 3 channle to begin with, since youll eventually move up to the 3 and 4 channel planes....but overall am very pleased with the plane. Am in San Angelo TX now...looking for a place to fly it. Unfortunately im not an AMA member yet and have been told I cant fly at the field here unless I am a member.

RE: firebird commander 2 trouble for noob
 

My first RC airplane was the Aerobird Challenger. I had a heck of a time trying to get it to fly. One problem that crept up early was with the 12v DC battery charger that came with the plane. It would "false peak" and tell me my battery was fully charged when it wan't even half charged. I'd go to launch the plane and the engine would die almost immediately.

If your charger tells you your flight pack is fully charged but the pack isn't at all warm, your charger could be lying. I bought the Hobbyzone AC charger for charging my flight packs and then only used the 12V charger to "top up" my batteries on the way to the field.

Another problem I had was trying to keep the stick body and the tail assembly aligned properly. After I put my Aerobird into the ground a few times, the tail boom got bent out of alignment. The fishing line and plastic screw setup with the tail controls was also problematic. I learned that, quite often, the difference between a good flight and a bad flight was taking the time to make sure the tail assembly and stick were aligned properly with the wing and main fuselage, and to also make sure that the elevon controls on the v-tail surface were aligned properly and had a good tight connection. If the fishing line slipped a little on one side, it would make the plane almost impossible to control in that direction. I could turn left or right often, but not the opposite direction. It's more difficult to avoid a tree when you can't choose which direction you'd like to turn your plane.

My breakthrough actually came when I ran into a flying club that offered flight instruction on glow trainers. I took a test flight on one of the club trainers with the help of an instructor, and much to my amazement the plane actually went where I told it to go. I put my Aerobird away and bought a Hobbico Nexstar. After I finished flight training and solo'd with my Nexstar, I found I could also fly my Aerobird much better than I ever could before.

I know plenty of guys who have taught themselves to fly on parkflyer electrics, and that's all they ever want to fly. They didn't work well for me, however, and I found glow planes to be much easier to operate and control. By the time I finally got my Aerobird figured out, it was basically shot and I ended up scrapping it a few months after my initial purchase. My original Nexstar airframe got damaged, but I'm still flying the engine and flightpack in a new trainer ARF I built for $59. I have two other sport planes that I built a couple of years ago that are now in their third flying season.

My Aerobird Challenger was only $129 brand new while my Nexstar was around $340, but the Aerobird was the most expensive plane I've ever owned. It was not easy to learn on, it was difficult to keep flying well, and it was trashed after a few months of light flying. With glow aircraft, the engine and radio equipment survive all but the most brutally spectacular crashes, they fly much better in the wind, and they can last for many years instead of only many months.

I've found that glow trainers are better to learn on and a better investment. When I tried to learn to fly by myself on an Aerobird Challenger, the only one who was happy was the local Hobbytown owner from whom I had to keep buying wings, propellers, tail assemblies, and rubber bands.

If I were interested in learning how to fly right now today, I'd be jumping all over the Pegasus .40 Super Combo deal at eHobbies.com:

http://www.ehobbies.com/ttr4556-f12.html

$219.99 buys you a big, beautiful Thunder Tiger Pegasus .40 airframe with a 70" wingspan, a TT GP-42 2-stroke glow engine with prop, glow plug, and spinner, and a Hitec Laser 4 radio system. The whole package comes with engine, radio receiver, servos, switch harness, and receiver battery all pre-installed. The transmitter has a trainer jack on the back to be connected to a buddy box or to an instructors radio. The package includes the rechargable NiCd packs for the transmitter and receiver batteries as well as the wall charger. A plane package like this is barely $100 more than an Aerobird Challenger, but it's much better to fly in the wind and would provide years of flying enjoyment instead of weeks or months. Even if you totalled the airframe, you could simply move the engine and radio equipment to another $69 or $79 ARF instead of replacing the whole thing.

Where I live, the wind blows. I like being able to go out and fly in a 15mph breeze without breaking a sweat. If all I had to fly was my old Aerobird Challenger, I'd probably only get 5 or 10 days per year that were nice enough to fly.