Please help with this decision...
 

I'm new to flying, and lately got to fly a trainer owned by a guy at the field a few times since last week. It was around a 55" span I believe, with a .46 2c motor.

Now I'll admit, I didn't get to land it, but I have a good feeling it wouldn't be hard for me at all after watching everyone and with it explained to me. The plane didn't seem hard for me to control at all either, I actually felt that flying it was almost too easy. I am experienced with Microsoft flight simulator, while this is not r/c flying, I just wanted to say that I am somewhat aware of various flight physics and the idea of landing.

Well anyways, while I know this equates pretty much to no real experience to you guys, I would like help on selecting a new plane as my first project.

The truth about this is I wouldn't mind taking a bit of a risk on a first airplane to have something more appealing after the initial learning, as I don't really have that much extra cash for two projects right away.

With that in mind, do any of you think it would be possible to start with something like an aerobatic vehicle in the .46 size, even though landing approach speeds may be somewhat higher?

What I was really looking at is a pusher jet, like a Bobcat 50.

I'm not really sure just how finicky these type of vehicles are for a beginner.

And just curious, what are the advantages of a ducted fan design on a jet (using a piston engine)? They look very sleek to me, can someone comment on the flying difficulty of one of these as well?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, I just think if it's not too far out of reach I'd like to purchase a better performing plane than a trainer.

Thanks.

RE: Please help with this decision...
 

i think i'll speak for everyone (mostly) when i say that a "bobcat" like pusher or ducted fan is out of the question. if you don't want a trainer, the most i would recommend would be a great planes big stick or a hanger 9 ultra stick. while still having the same "basic" look as a trainer, these planes can be "tuned" for mild relaxing sunday flying in low rates (that would be great for learning also) and thrn "tune" them to high rates for a completly different experience. one of our flyers, for a set price, will take someone new, hand build them a .40 size ugly stick (from original plans), install motor and radio, and teach them to fly with that plane. if i'd have nkown this when i started flying, i would have went this route.

ultimately though, it's like this. if you're going to rely on someone ( an instructor ) to teach you to fly (which is HIGHLY suggested), i would say get with them and find out what they are comfortable with teaching someone on. they may feel that you would do okay with a stick but then again, they may not. remember, they're your "teacher" they've been in the hobby and they know what to expect. they can also provide you with a wealth of knowledge IF you're willing to learn. if you have to start with a trainer, so be it. you're not the first, you won't be the last. i still find it fun to take my trainer out and wring it out from time to time. AND down the road if one of your friends wants to try that "looks so easy" hobby, bring out the old trainer and put them on a cord to see if they'd be interested. in my opinion, you never REALLY outgrow a trainer. they can always teach you something new.

RE: Please help with this decision...
 

parrthd is dead on with his recommendation. While a Stick or something may be good for you to start with, I don't think a pusher jet or anything in that category would be a good idea.

I flew parrthd's Stick the other day with some massive SuperTigre on it and it had unlimited vertical, was a lot of fun but, most importantly for you, it was STABLE and EASY to fly and control. It will also allow you to practice some maneuvers past the basic loop and roll. I think with just a bit more throw and tailweight I could have had parrthd's hovering. :D

Just my opinion.

RE: Please help with this decision...
 

i know it's gonna come in faster, but i'm working on that......thus my trial and error on the flaperons.........

RE: Please help with this decision...
 

Alright, I will listen to what has been said and go for a trainer. I was assuming just maybe it wouldn't be drastically hard. But with that reassurance of difficulty, I will not think about a pusher or DF.

I guess my first time flying sprung a false confidence in my ability.

I can get a deal on a few different trainers at the local hobby shop, so I will start with a .40-.46.

I do want to try and move right towards a DF or pusher though after the trainer. I'd like to maybe start the project right away with it or soon after. Does this seem too far out of reach once I have the trainer flight technique down? Really what I'm aiming for in the end isn't maximum agility, but rather simply minimal drag and maximum speed. I would like to transmit video from the cockpit hopefully sometime as well.

RE: Please help with this decision...
 

While this is a very noble goal, it's probably an unrealistic one. I'm not trying to be rude or ugly here, but just laying out the reality of the situation. A pusher jet, or ducted fan jet, are going to require a certain set of skills to fly and land safely and unfortunately you're not going to gain those skills just from flying a trainer plane. There should be a progression of planes that you fly as you gain the skills needed to fly the planes you want to fly. Even after you solo on a trainer you will still be flying for awhile as you sharpen your skills on it. Then a second plane will continue to increase your skill level even more. I know that seems like it will be a long time before you can fly the planes you want to, but like everything else in life there are steps that have to be taken to get what you want to. As I said above, I'm not trying to be ugly here, but I would hate to see a nice ducted fan plane become a pile of splinters because of this.

Hope this helps

Ken

RE: Please help with this decision...
 

I will explain why ducted fans and pushers are much harder to fly then standard aircraft. Regular aircraft have the prop in front of the plane. This prop no matter what when it is running forces air back along the control surfaces providing the surfaces with some bite and modicrum of control at slow speeds. Pushers and ducted fans rely on movement through the air for this controlability. In other words they get logy and sluggish when they are slow and you have to be careful when doing stalls and think about turns that will not bleed off most of your airspeed. These planes really require you to have a lot of confidence and knowledge about their characteristics before then can be flown succesfully.

RE: Please help with this decision...
 

RCKen is quite correct. While flying a trainer around on a buddy box may appear easy, I can assure you there is plenty more to learn. I can't count the number of times that a new pilot has come to the field with a plane that is totally out of their capabilities to fly, just because they didn't like the looks of trainers or didn't WANT to be a beginner. If they try and fly these planes the results are very predictable.[:o]

I am a licensed pilot and have flown full scale for 42 years. I also use the Microsoft Flight Simulator as an Instrument practice trainer (cheaper than using FAA certified ones...LOL). I can tell you that full scale aircraft, with a few exceptions are slow and the controls are sluggish compared to our R/C planes. Flying "IN" the cockpit is a far different perception than "FROM" the ground. You don't have control disorientation with full scale either.

It is far easier to teach an R/C pilot to fly full scale than it is to teach full scale pilots to fly R/C! We used to have an Air Force KC-135 tanker pilot from Grissom AFB with thousands of hours to his credit come to our field for lessons to fly R/C. He told us that he had flown all over the world and was very proficient at flying, but when he would fly his R/C trainer, he was more nervous with it than anything he had ever flown. His knees would knock and the antenna would vibrate....LOL.

Do yourself a favor and learn to fly a little at a time. It will save you money and you will learn to acquire the skills that you will need to fly the models that you WANT to fly later. After all, full scale pilots don't learn in F-16's or B-747's. Take time to enjoy the hobby! It will be well worth it.:D

Rod;)

RE: Please help with this decision...
 

Matt, the good news is, you're not the only one who wanted to start at an unrealistic level. Most newbies want to start with something "cool" and skip the trainer stage.

But there's more good news...

Everyone is different. Some people pick this up quickly while others may fly for years and never master it. You sound like you will pick it up quickly, HOWEVER there is still a LOT to learn.

There is a relatively new trainer on the market called the Mustang PTS which you would probably be a good candidate for. It is a P-51 Mustang that has some added features to keep it somewhat docile for the beginner. Once you have mastered the basics, you can remove some of these features and have a more advanced plane.

Have a look at the PTS. Check out all of it's features. And think about getting that pusher somewhere down the road.

Link:

[link=http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=HAN2845]Mustang PTS[/link]

RE: Please help with this decision...
 

As a former Hangar 9 P-51 PTS trainer owner (I crashed it on the 16th flight due to visibility issues and loss of orientation)
The P-51 was my 3rd glow plane.
I still stick to my guns and say it is not a good trainer.
I am not saying you can't learn to fly with one, I am saying for the average person it may take longer to learn and there will be some that wont be able to handle it and have to move to a traditional high wing trainer.
With the P-51 PTS I would strongly recommend buddy box traing with a qualified instructor.
There are some quality issues with the landing gear so be prepared to do some surgury on them. Other than that once you do get comfortable with the P-51 PTS you will find you have an airplane that can do all kinds of aerobatics with ease and a nice looking airplane as well.

RE: Please help with this decision...
 

Ditto Mike's PTS recommendation. I was thinking PTS for you about half way thru your post, only to find Mike had allready put it up when I got to the bottom of the page.:D You sound to me like the exact type of beginner flyer that they had in mind when H-9 designed this thing. It is a beautiful little Warbird too once you have mastered it in it's Trainer mode & remove all the training aids, you are left with a nice little P-51 Mustang. Kind of like getting two planes for the price of one if ya look at in the right way. This is NOT a go do it on your own plane though. If you decide you like it & buy one, you definitely need to find a good Instructor to get ya dialed in on her & soloed. Good luck to you.

RE: Please help with this decision...
 

I guess I should have not assumed that there would be a flight instructor in the equation, so I will add to my privious post that you MUST buddy box with a qualified instructor.

I should also mention that the PTS comes with a buddy box cord AND a basic flight simulator for your computer.

RE: Please help with this decision...
 

A CONFIRMED ELENASGRUMPY SIGHTING!!! HOORAY!!

Matt,

You are getting good advice here. I would only add that it may be a good idea to wait until you talk with your instructor and see if he/she has an extra trainer you could borrow, what type of trainer cord you will need, extra field equipment etc. I'm not telling you to be a free-loader. I just know how charitable people in this hobby can be. In the past year I have given-away 4 transmitters/receivers, 3 planes, 12 servos and numerous props, glow-plugs and fuel.

Get an instructor and make some friends at the field. You would benefit from the experience like most of us have.

Welcome to the END of 'Free Time' and 'Disposable Income' as you knew them.

Good luck and HAVE FUN!!

RE: Please help with this decision...
 

Now that's an understatement!....LMAO:D

Rod

RE: Please help with this decision...
 

What is this mythical "disposable income" you speak of?? I seem to have a faint memory of such a thing, but it must have been ages ago when last I encountered it. I do believe it was the acquisition of RC aircraft and a wife that has destroyed this noble entity you refer to "disposable income".

RE: Please help with this decision...
 

Awesome guys, excellent advice.

So the Mustang it is!

I'll go ahead and buy it. It sounds like what I need. My trainer owns a hobby shop and has flown for about 30 years now, he should be of utmost help in the situation.

He told me about the buddy cord so I was already planning on help with learning this way.

I guess I was just hyped from those dang jets, I immediately wanted something fast right away.

Well, I'll stick around, and once I get this thing in the air I'll keep us updated on my flights, hopefully with no crashes!

Thanks a million everyone!

RE: Please help with this decision...
 

hopefully........a wise man once told me there's two types of planes, there's those that HAVE crashed and then there's those that ARE GOING TO crash.

welcome to the addiction..........er hobby i mean. AND IF you do have a mishap don't worry about it. my first trainer cam home in a plastic wal mart bag......LOL

oh yea, that was THE ENTIRE PLANE (wings, fuse, motor, tiny pieces, etc etc etc) cam home in a wal mart bag