Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

I would like to hear your opinion about SIG Four Star as a Trainer.
It will be ok for a newbie to control this plane or not. I have read that it is stable as a Trainer, slow as a Trainer with better landing approach.
I am thinking for a 60 with a OS 70 II.

Please, i would be very happy to read your opinion.

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

I would think that it would be a great trainer. The 4 stars are some of the best flying planes on the market. Good Luck, Dave

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

I also agree with Dave. They cvan be an excellent trainer. In fact I have one that has well over 1000 flights, yes that is one thousand, and a lot of those with it being used as a trainer.

They are as stable as a trainer and more so in some respects, lands just as slow and the bigger trainers, they are very forgiving to the inevitable opps that students run into and can take a good beating.

Now between the 40 and 60 size, I would go with the 60 size. Both are excellent but I think the 60 size would be better down the road.

Consider mine as an example. After solo I went right into the 40 size and had a blast. Thought I was bored with it so I sold it and it was promptly destroyed by someone else. That plane had well over 100 flights at the time. I went almost one year without one and one day I did a maiden on a 60 size. Later that day I bought one and I still have it even though I have moved in 50cc and larger gas powered planes.

I still love pulling out the 4* and just having a blast doing low KE passes, pointing it into the wind and stopping it in mid-air and just generally abusing the plane

You can't go wrong with any version of the 4*

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

I have two 4* 60’s and both fly like trainers.

Bill

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

I recently switched from a kyosho calmato trainer to a sig 4 star 40 second plane.
It is true that the fourstar is very easy to fly and is still a trainer but I've found the following couple of differences:

1. taking off is much more complicated than a simple trainer due to the fact that you need to do many things at the same time from keeping up elevator while taxiing, then slowly release it as you increase throttle and at the same time input some right rudder which in turn will need to be reduced as the plane speeds up.
This is a reflex to the experienced pilots and rarely do they remember how difficult it is for a newbie. All I had to do on the trainer was to maintain heading with the rudder until airborn. And even that was tough and stressing at the beginning.

2. despite all the talks, this plane should be landed faster than the trainer. Yes it is slow compared to the expert and advanced pilots, it is still forgiving and floating compared to those advanced models I see on the field. But remember, we are newbies, we are still not at this level. I definately land the trainer slower than the fourstar, there is no doubt about it!

Nonetheless, I just fell in love with this plane, and I will never part with it. It's been two weeks now that I built it, and I am flying it every day!! I highly recommend it but I am not sure if I would recommend skipping the first month or two on a real high wing trainer...
I fly it with an OS 46AX engine and 11x6 propeller.

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

I recently switched from a kyosho calmato trainer to a sig 4 star 40 second plane.
It is true that the fourstar is very easy to fly and is still a trainer but I've found the following couple of differences:

1. taking off is much more complicated than a simple trainer due to the fact that you need to do many things at the same time from keeping up elevator while taxiing, then slowly release it as you increase throttle and at the same time input some right rudder which in turn will need to be reduced as the plane speeds up.
This is a reflex to the experienced pilots and rarely do they remember how difficult it is for a newbie. All I had to do on the trainer was to maintain heading with the rudder until airborn. And even that was tough and stressing at the beginning.

2. despite all the talks, this plane should be landed faster than the trainer. Yes it is slow compared to the expert and advanced pilots, it is still forgiving and floating compared to those advanced models I see on the field. But remember, we are newbies, we are still not at this level. I definately land the trainer slower than the fourstar, there is no doubt about it!

Nonetheless, I just fell in love with this plane, and I will never part with it. It's been two weeks now that I built it, and I am flying it every day!! I highly recommend it but I am not sure if I would recommend skipping the first month or two on a real high wing trainer...
I fly it with an OS 46AX engine and 11x6 propeller.

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

wihile I agree with the point that there may be a little more work on takeoff that a high wing nosewheel type trainer I do think that you can land a 4* as slow or slower than most, not all trainers. Most people, at least in my expereince are afraid to land a 4* slow because there might be a problem with the plane. In every case that a 4* needs to land fast is because they are too nose heavy. Heck, any plane that is too nose heavy will need to be landed faster.

Since I'm an instructor and intro pilot, I use my 4* for intro flights. I have flown people who have done research both on here and other forums and some are told that it is not a good first plane to not a good trainer, until they fly mine. I've started at least 10 people off on the 4* and some of those 10 had a typical LT-40 trainer that for one reason or another had a problem so we used the 4* and never went back and some of these were not even doing taxi runs with the trainer. After a flight to get the feel of the 4* I would let them do low and high speed taxi's and they found it was much easier to deal with, some did not. My point is it all depends on the person.

One other thing is a high wing trainer is much harder for a student to taxi and land in a cross wind. A 4* is not so if you live in a windy area of the country the low wing may make things much easier. Just keep the throws low.

A good instructor will always try to remember what it was like to be a student. I feel that is one of the things that makes them a good instructor.

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

The Four Star is acclaimed as a great second plane, and I concur.

The training process demands either an instructor, or a very forgiving plane, or a student with skills gained elsewhere. With a good instructor, I would think the Four Star could be a great instruction plane.

Learning the basics is best done with a slow flying plane, and the Four Star can fly slow. If you don't get in trouble, or if you have an instructor, the Four Star will be fine.

Trainers can also fly slow, are easy to get out of trouble ("save"), and can do basic aerobatics, but with limitations. Four Stars can fly faster, and are more nimble (less stable than a high wing trainer.)

The odds of the plane surviving the training process are enhanced by :
-flight sim practice
-an instructor
-use of a stable plane
-lots of practice.

The plane I use for instruction is a high wing trainer type. It will do anything the student is capable of, at that stage. If a student wants to bring a low wing aerobat, I'll give him time on my instruction plane first. That's my choice, othes may differ.
Good luck,
Dave Olson

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

I have flown a buddys 4* and watched lots of others fly. I have often thought that it would probably make a great trainer. It will fly faster than a trainer when you want to step up the pace, but will also fly at a crawl if you want to slow things down. The wide speed range teaches good throttle management! It will handle wind better than a trainer because of the wing type and because its a low wing. As far as landing, most land slower than a trainer and if you don't slow it down like a trainer it will just keep cruising along without losing altitude, and if there is a breeze, the plane will stop and hover!! If the 4* wants to come in fast, then I would be re-checking the cg balance. I think the plane actually makes a better trainer than a 2nd type sport plane. Keep the throws reasonable and I don't see why someone can't learn to fly on a 4*. [8D]

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

I think the 4* would be great if you've played a fair number of console-based video games. :D

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

Can't talk much about how the 4* would be as a trainer. I just maidened mine a few weeks ago after flying my LT-40 for a few years. It's a little touchy, but not that bad. I think a student could learn on one with the right instructor.

About your engine choice. I have a OS .70 Surpass (not the Surpass II) in my 4*60 and it takes off great!!!! I use about half throttle and it takes about 15-20 ft to get airborne. It will be a little slow in the air, but if your just starting out, that's probably better.

One thing I did different is I used Chanel mixing (with my JR6202) to let me have flaperons. THESE ARE NOT NEEDED!!!!!!!! The plane lands even slower!!! Take offs with the flaps down are like 5 ft. I just added them to see how they work.

Here are a few pics of mine.

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

Like it's smaller sibling, the Four Star 60 is a great choice for a first low wing and second model.

It could be used as a trainer provided you used the right engine for it, but I wouldn't recommend it as the wisest, and certainly not the best choice you could make for the learning process. You're just making an already difficult (if taught properly) task harder to accomplish if you do.

Stick with established convention. Using a stable low powered slow high wing trainer is not convention simply because it's "always been done that way", but for the same reason the NAVY or AIR FORCE doesn't start its studs out in an F-22 Raptor or even a BAe Hawk for either screening or ab initio training. And no, it's not just about the money with them either.

If you want a visually significant airframe in a good trainer, go LT-40. KISS and inexpensive with a 46LA and sell the combo when you move up to the Four Star - if it survives the training and early post solo process. I'd use a 70 Surpass II only if you must. Less power is more for training.

Why? Whilst Four Stars have a clever aerofoil & do slow down well for landing - they are real floaters - but are nowhere near as stable - or draggy/slow - as a high wing trainer such as an LT-40 or Sky Raider Mach 1. I suspect many suggesting otherwise have forgotten this, and how hard it all seems to the early student, which is easy to do as the memory of the experience diminishes with the passage of time and aquisition of experience.

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

I was training some kids when my LT25 needed some repairs so I grabbed a Cessna 172 instead. Its not a trainer by a long shot but the kids managed ok (except for the occassional spin when I had to take over) and the 4* is far more forgiving than the Cessna and will fly much slower![8D]

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

BobFE,

That is one of the best looking 4*'s I have ever seen, nice covering job

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

After getting real familiar with my Senior w/ailerons, I maidened my 4*40. I thought it was a rocket. I'm certain it would not have lasted long if I had trained on it. I started with the Senior, everything happens slowly- just what I needed. After a few flights on the 4*, I felt comfortable with it.

I may get flamed for this. I hear people say- "Just throttle back". I believe most two strokes run best at full throttle. If forced to putt around with the throttle partially closed, engine reliability may suffer if not cleaned out with full throttle blasts. Keeping this in mind, an LA40 may be the perfect engine to learn on the 4*40.

Mine is currently powered by a Saito 45, definately not over powered.

Have fun, MikeB

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

MikeB,

Proper tuning of any engine eliminates the need to clean it out.

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

Well I agree that it is easier to handle wind with the fourstar, I am just experiencing it actually... But I wasn't able to land it as slow as my trainer so far.
What way should I move the cg in order to achieve that?

As said, mine keeps cruising along without losing altitude, and i am forced to lower it with stick movement and then sometimes I hit hard :(

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

I went from an LT-40 to the 4*60 a couple of years ago. I love both aircraft. however I feel that a high wing trainer is the way to start.
I remember that there was a difference the first time I flew my 4*. It seemed like the 4* stayed where you put it more than a trainer would.
I have been an instructor for a while now, I could teach on a 4*. it would take longer to solo but it could be done. I wouldn't recommend it though.
Please learn to walk before you run.

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

fadi81, on the landing speed; If you check the cg and the nose drops down by more than 1 1/2" then you are more nose heavy than you need to be. This will increase your landing speed. As you found out the 4*- 40 needs to slow down big time in order to lose altitude on its own. As you found out if the plane has any speed at all it would rather cruise along rather than lose altitude. YOu are running a 11-6 prop. I would switch to an 11-5 which will give you a slower speed at idle. I hope these ideas help. [8D]

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

Well I balanced it at 3-1/4 inches and in the manual they say I could go as far as 3-1/2 inches without problems, so I am pretty sure I am not nose heavy...
I was at 2-3/8 inches at the beginninng.

I will try the 11x5 prop to see what happens :)

Thanks for the tips



edited to add: what idle rpm should I score with the OS 46AX? what peak rpm is logical with 5%nitro and #8 plug? I think I am having problems in this regard as well...

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

First off I make sure that the engine is warmed up really well and then I look for around 3000 rpm to start. I may be able to get abit slower but I don't want the idle to be any faster if I can help it or it makes the landings faster than they need to be. Btw, fuel with 10% nitro is a good all around fuel to get as long as it has 18% oil content. I like a mixture of 50% Castor and 50% snynthetic oil. Its called Sport fuel. [8D]

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

Bubblegates, thank you.

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

Youhouuuuu!!! I got my problem solved!!!
The engine is back to perfect operation now, and I am less stressing at landing and take off and all manoeuvers :D
It is just that I trust the engine won't quit on me anymore!!

What I did was simply break the zinger 11x6 propeller after a hard landing, and replace it with a handy APC 11x6. What a difference!! I immediately felt the engine running smoother, and quiter. I did some flights with it and it was so nice, I started cursing the zinger one :D

Another pilot told me to try an 11x7 and he offered me his master airscew. WOW!! That was even easier on the engine, and btw I love the 7in pitch, the plane handles so nice!!

I am now idling at 2500rpm, and reaching 11000rpm at WOT. This is on 5% nitro, #8 glow plug and 16% castor/synthetic blend.
The idle is so nice, I just need to be a couple of notches higher than idle to land the fourstar and then drop it quickly to idle for taxi. The plane can even stay stationary on the runway if I leave it to idle. I love it this way!!
The engine sound now is very sweet, the exhaust shows a light white stream, and the response is fairly quick. I think it is perfectly in tune now.

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

Glad to hear you got it worked out,

Now go enjoy a great plane....:D

RE: Sig Four Star as a Trainer
 

Indeed :D