Fuel?
 

I purchased a gallon of Cool Power 15% total synthetic glow fuel the other day for my NexSTAR Select. I was told by a coworker yesterday that I shouldn't run 15% and I should not run total synthetic fuel. He said I should run a combination of castor and synthetic because synthetic burns all the oil and leaves the engine dry with no oil on it and causes rust and corrosion. He says the castor provides lubrication for the engine because it doesn't all burn. Is this true? Did I make a mistake purchasing and using this fuel?

RE: Fuel?
 

Nah, ya did fine. I've been running 15% Cool Power for years and it's just fine. No, the oil doesn't all get burned up, just look at your wing after a couple of flights if you want proof. It IS less messy than Castor and Castor will provide better protection if you run too lean. The solution? Don't run too lean. You don't have to squeeze every last revolution out of your engines, that's just silly. You're gonna be flying at reduced throttle a lot anyway so why run it so lean?
Just ask yourself, if this fuel was sooooo bad why would they be selling it.

Go fly and enjoy.

RE: Fuel?
 

Bull. This just isn't true at all. If it were then you would see some of the top pilots in the world burning up their engines, because they fly 15% Cool Power. Trust me on this one, you can come look at the side of my planes after I fly them and you'll find PLENTY of unburnt synthetic lubrication all down the side of my plane!!! :D I've been using 15% Cool Power in all of my planes (except my YS engine, which gets 25%) for years now and have never had a lick of trouble. Heck, my OS 52 Surpass in my Slow Poke has 400+ flights on it (almost 60 hours of operation) using nothing BUT Cool Power. So I guess you can say that it does a pretty good job of protecting your engine.

If you want to know the truth, flying one flight with your engine too lean can do more damage to an engine than anything else that is ever done. This is what ruins most engines, pilots trying to squeeze and extra 100-200 RPM's out of the engine and then running it too lean. The engine doesn't have enough fuel to keep it cool and it overheats and burns up. Run your engines rich and they'll last you forever, run it too lean once and it's history!!

Hope this helps

Ken

RE: Fuel?
 

Same here, your okay. I run 15% in every size glow engine I have. I'm curious, does your co worker fly rc? Thing is Glow fuel helps an engine glow. Gas engines have, well too much gas. Smells horrible

RE: Fuel?
 

Like a lot of aspects of this hobby, you'll find people on both sides of this one that are very, very adamant about their particular stance. I'm pretty adamant about mine, too. My opinion, based on what I have experienced, is that it doesn't matter. Straight castor, a castor-synthetic blend, or just synthetic--they'll all do the job. Ken is spot on when he says that none of them will do the job in case of a lean run.

As for the percentage of nitro, I'd wager that most of us run 10-15% in our more common engines. In other parts of the world that's a bit different, with lower (or no) nitro being used. That mostly has to do with expense, and has led to slightly different compression ratios being used. Here in the States, having someone suggest that 15% nitro is a dangerously high percentage is somewhat laughable.

RE: Fuel?
 

As long as your Nexstar leaves a slight smoke trail behind it while in flight, particularly when transitioning from mid-throttle to full-throttle, then all is right with the world.

Your O.S. Max engine will likely run best on 15% nitro fuel. O.S. 2-strokes tend to be lower compression than most competing brands, and the extra nitro helps them achieve maximum performance. I had a fellow club member give me an almost-full gallon of 10% fuel last year because he said his O.S. engine just didn't run as well with it as it did with 15% fuel.

The O.S. owners manual says to use any fuel with 5% to 20% nitro content and at least 18% total lubrication, be it castor oil, synthetic oil, or a blend just so long as the lubricants are high quality.

I personally like my fuel with as much castor oil in it as possible. I buy a lot of the Sig 10% nitro 20% lubrication all castor fuel when available. I run the Sig Champion 10% nitro 50/50 castor synthetic fuel when the all castor is out of stock.

RE: Fuel?
 

most times i use 10% nitro here. i have my duel made up of 10% nitro 18% snythetic and @% EDL. the EDL is what the r/c car people here use because their motors run at a higher rpm but i found that my engines like it ..

RE: Fuel?
 

Cool Power is good fuel. Anything Morgan's makes is good. I personally run Omega (castor/synthetic mix) in my ABC engines, anything from 10%-15%. I've been happy with it for many years. As for nitro content, on cold mornings you'll like the extra nitro for starting, and it gives a more reliable idle by keeping the engine a little hotter. When I was competing, I ran 25%-30% in my .32s and .34s. No noticeable damage. In fact, I still have one that's over 10 years old and still going strong. Larger engines USUALLY don't like the higher nitro mixes. For sport flying, 10%-15% is fine.

Dr.1

RE: Fuel?
 

It kills me how people come up with these stories.
If caster is all that is saving your coworkers engine, then tell him that he should not run it lean.
Oil and fuel lubricates and cools the engine.
There are people who run 0% nitro and others that run 30% nitro.
So which do you co-worker think is wrong?
Realize that in this hobby, most if not all equipment when used as specified by the manufacturer is good.

RE: Fuel?
 

Hey! "B.S. is what makes the world go round.":eek: His buddy probably flys electrics:D

RE: Fuel?
 

I tried 15% nitro and didn't see enough perofrmance difference to justify the higher cost I only use 10% now. As far as synthetic vs. castor oil the synthetic is more prone to absorb moisture and could cause you more problems if you live in an area that has high humidity and you don't use after run oil. I use a mixture of 50/50 synthetic /castor with good results. Which ever one you use, best to make sure that its at least 18% oil content of the fuel. I am surprized that they sell fuels that have less than this but they do so check it before you buy it. [8D]

RE: Fuel?
 

I don't believe 18% is a number set in stone. It all depends on the type of oil, the type of engine, and the application. I've never mixed my own fuel, and will never as long as a quality fuel like Morgan's is available.

As for nitro, I buy what's available in my LHS, usually 15%. You're right, the performance difference isn't enough if 10% is available.

Dr.1

RE: Fuel?
 

15% nitro is uneccesary. 5% is more than sufficient for an airplane engine. 15% will give you more power, but is also more expensive.

For engine break-in, castor oil might be slightly better, because it is in fact an inferior oil to the synthetic oil used in Coolpower.

It's not the oil that makes an engine rust, it's the nitro. Nitro is hygroscopic, which means it attracts water. However, if you fly on a regular basis, this shouldn't be a problem. If you're going to stow your engine for some time (>1 month) it might be wise to run it on fuel without nitro before stowing it.

RE: Fuel?
 

15% nitro is uneccesary.
In your opinion. Some people like it. Personally, it makes my engines start easier and idle better. Not theory, practical experience.

For engine break-in, castor oil might be slightly better, because it is in fact an inferior oil to the synthetic oil used in Coolpower.
Absolutely wrong. Prove it. In fact, castor will hold up better in some conditions than synthetic will. I don't think Morgan's puts "inferior" oil in their Omega. I've used it for years in sport and competition planes. My engines start easily, have good power (.32s turning 10x4 props at over 14k), and give me no trouble.

It's not the oil that makes an engine rust, it's the nitro. Nitro is hygroscopic,
Now you made a correct, factual statement.

Dr.1

RE: Fuel?
 

I agree with DR1.
The one thing that I like to add about caster is that it will go bad quicker than synthetic, it causes more varnish and it's biggest benefit is when an engine is run lean. It will take the abuse when synthetic will give up.

RE: Fuel?
 

Another ditto. Before I started using 4-strokes I only ran 5% Cool Power. Once I started using 4-strokes, I bumped it up to 10% then 15%.

I still use 15% in the few times that I use a 2-stroke, but only because I don't want to deal with having two different fuels.

If I ran nothing but 2-strokes (God Forbid! ) I would go back to 10%, maybe even 5%

RE: Fuel?
 

I still use 15% in the few times that I use a 2-stroke, but only because I don't want to deal with having two different fuels.

MinnFlyer,

Is this 4 stroke fuel or two stroke fuel? I ask because I'll soon be flying a four stroke engine some time this summer. I've never owned a 4 stroke and any advice is appreciated.

TIA!

Dr.1

RE: Fuel?
 

Same as Dr.

RE: Fuel?
 

I use the same fuel (Cool Power 15%) in both my 2-strokes and 4-strokes with no problems at all. As I said, the 4-stroke in my Slow Poke has almost 60 hours of time on it using Cool Power!!!

Ken

RE: Fuel?
 

Which still doesn't make it a necessity. You'll have slightly more power with 15% and it might be that an engine starts more easy, however I have never had starting problems using 5% nitro. I start all my engines (4, 3 twostroke and 1 fourstroke) with a chicken stick and have had no problems starting it.

What i ment is: a two stroke engine will run fine on 5%. You won't damage it and it will run. 15% nitro might have some advantages, but it's not neccesary.

I don't know about Morgan's, it's not available over here. So can't say anything about that. Over here we get coolpower or 'own mixtures'. Worst oil is recinus. If you do your engine breakin on 20% recinus, 75% methanol and 5% nitro, you'll get better results than using coolpower, simply because the oil in coolpower lubricates better, which slows down the break-in process. I didn't believe that myself, until someone asked me to flip his fresh-broken-in OS 46FXi, which had tons more compression after breakin than my 46FXi (which was broken in with coolpower).

To prevent misunderstandings, I'm referring to two-stroke engines here. I also own a fourstroke and use 10% nitro with 'klotz' oil. For breakin I used 5% nitro.

Keep in mind that fuel might be more expensive here (The Netherlands). I pay like 22 euro for a gallon 5% coolpower which is about 28 dollar. 15% nitro costs somewhere around 32 euro here, or about 42 dollar. I guess you can imagine why i run 5% coolpower (fly about a gallon a week), however I must admit that I have tried 10 and 15% but noticed no difference, besides having slightly more power. If starting your engine is a problem, it might be that it helps, however my engines all start within 2 or 3 flips with a chicken stick.

RE: Fuel?
 

I don't know about Morgan's, it's not available over here. So can't say anything about that. Over here we get coolpower

If it's a brand name "Coolpower", it's made by Morgan's.

Dr.1

RE: Fuel?
 

Lol, ah ok, never cared to read the entire bottle.. however I've never seen anything else than the synthetic oil fuel over here. If it's the same brand or manufacturer one could probably order it. Is recinus called recinus as well in English? In Dutch it's also called 'wonderolie', translated 'miracle oil'. Like 10 years ago everone ran their engines on a fuel containing recinus oil. In my experience that's the best oil for breaking in an engine.

Touchy subject anyways, fueltype and engine breakin.. everyone has his or hers own methods or opinion about it :)

RE: Fuel?
 

Is recinus called recinus as well in English? In Dutch it's also called 'wonderolie', translated 'miracle oil'.

I don't have a clue. I don't know what brands of oil Morgan's uses. If you write them, they might tell you. I think we have Miracle Oil over here, but I'm not sure. Sometimes it's hard to realize that not every country has the same stuff available.

Dr.1

RE: Fuel?
 

recinus oil isn't synthetic.. mixups everywhere.. I ment to say i have never seen any non-synthetic-oil based coolpower or Morgans or Omega here.. we do have lots of non-synthetic oil based fuels over here, of which recinus oil is the majority. Its made from a tree (ricinus communis).

RE: Fuel?
 

Both Coolpower and Omega have synthetic oil as the base. Omega has castor added.

Dr.1

RE: Fuel?
 

Check your spelling? Recinus is actually Ricinus or the Castor bean. You're talking about Castor Oil.
Castor oil
Castor beans are pressed to extract castor oil which is used for medicinal purposes. Ricin does not partition into the oil because it is water-soluble, therefore, castor oil does not contain ricin, provided that no cross-contamination occurred during its production.

http://www.healthtouch.com/bin/ECont...%7C+&cid=HTALT

Got to love that Google.:)

RE: Fuel?
 

It's also a plant, not a tree.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castor_bean

BTW - be careful of this plant. Ricin poison is made from it and is extremely deadly.

RE: Fuel?
 

I know the tree (yes it's a tree and yes it also comes as plant) is called ricinus.. my spelling was the dutch spelling. However, if recinus oil is the same as castor oil, then i stick to my statement that castor oil is better for break in, because it does lubricate less than the synthetic oil used in coolpower :P In africa they have trees up to 15 meters high of this stuff :)

RE: Fuel?
 

"It is a fast-growing, suckering perennial shrub which can reach the size of a small tree (around 12 m), but it is not hardy. In areas prone to frost it is usually shorter and grown as if it were an annual: it can reach a height of 2–3 m in a year."

I see that you are correct.

RE: Fuel?
 

If you want to know what goes into Cool Power (or any of the Morgan Fuels) you can visit their website. You can find their ingredients here
[link]http://www.morganfuel.com/ingredients.htm[/link]

You can view their MSDS's here:
[link]http://www.morganfuel.com/msds_fuels.htm[/link]

Ken

RE: Fuel?
 

Basically the site also states that everyone is right:
So the Omega fuel does contain castor oil, but a modified version and, if you believe what they say, therefor lubricates better than 'ordinary castors'.. I was referring to ordinairy castor oil.

Anyways, this thread was not about the best break-in oil (sorry my bad). No-one got any further comments on the difference between 5 or 15% nitro, or the necessity to use 15%?

RE: Fuel?
 

This isn't correct because it's the methanol that's hygroscopic. Nitro can only absorb something like 2% of its volume of water. Methanol though will just keep on absorbing water right up to 100% of it's volume. If you shut the engine down at the end of the day without first burning off all the fuel that collects inside the crankcase then the remaining methanol will start absorbing water out of the air. The methanol then evaporates much faster than the water leaving raw water inside the engine.

Synthetic oils don't "stick" to metals very well, they slide off over time leaving the bare metal surface to be in contact with water which then causes rust. Castor is what's called "polarised" which means that the castor molecules are attracted to metal kind of like a magnet to iron. It can't slide off so it leaves a permanent barrier against any water. A proper after run oil is also polarised which is why they work and are really only necessary if there's no castor in the fuel.

Nitro is just an additive to the base fuel and any engine will work quite well with zero nitro. To the best of my knowledge there's only one engine made that's had it's compression altered specifically for the American market's fascination with nitro and that's the Mokis sold as Mark engines. Some engines (early Saitos for instance) were made to run at their best with zero nitro but began to get a bad reputation in America because no one could get them to run properly when they were fed the usual high nitro diet (operator error) so they had to be altered.

The only possible reason for using high nitro (or even any nitro) is to try to squeeze every last few revs out of an engine. If you need nitro to make the model fly properly then you simply don't have a big enough engine in it.

RE: Fuel?
 

The bottom line seems to be: everyone runs what works best for them in their engines for their applications. For me, that's 10%-15% nitro and a castor/synthetic oil mix.

Dr.1

RE: Fuel?
 

I am with you downunder. I work in the oil field industry and deal with methonal on a regular basis in the winter breaking ice plugs in pipe lines. If you spill a little methonal on snow or ice you can watch it turn from a clear liquid to a white liquid when it has absorbed all the water it can.

RE: Fuel?
 

Where i live it is a very long drive to a hobby shop, so what they have in stock is what i burn. Except i wont go over 15% nitro because of the cost.

having said that, my fuel of choice is cool power 15%. I did purchase 6 cases of sig 10% with a mix of synthetic and castor oil.
I got it at the beginning of last summer and burned it all but 2 gallons. I would not by this fuel again if i can ovoid it. had no troubles or breakdowns with it, just seemed not to run my engines as good as byrons or cool power.



one more thing, i run the same fuel in all my nitro engines. even my stadium trucks, and have not had one ill effect from it. Here is a quick list of all the engines i have in models that i can fly or drive right now. this will show the diversaty of engines that one fuel can run safeley

funtana 90...evolution 1.00
jack stafford comanchee...os 90 fs
sig lt 40....os 52 fs surpass
goldburg freedom 20.......os 40 fp
sukhoi 40 .......tower 46 pro
cmp extra 300......super tigre 2500
traxxas revo.........2.5r
rc10 gt........associated .15
rc10 gt.......duratrax torq 12
traxxas nitro sport se........traxxas .15

but my fuel of choice is cool power 15%