First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

Hello...

I've been flying Heli's since Christmas 06'. I have a CP Pro, 2 MX400's - 1 with an align drive train, a T-Rex450 SE, and a Raptor Titan - with an OS 50 Hyper. I've wanted a plane for quite some time now and I finally got a trainer to try out. I purchased the Hangar 9 Solo Sport, also called the Solo Star & Solo Strike (Different graphic desgins). I've got her all assembled - I just need to get my hands on a muffler extension or a stock muffler - the motor came with a Pitts style muffler and I don't really feel like hacking the side of the front end off of the plane to make it fit - a 7/16" extension would work well. Either way - I'll be ready to fly it soon enough - I don't have an AMA membership, and I don't plan on flying at a park. I have a few nice flying spots - one of them has a small asphalt strip on it - it's just kind of short - then again, I don't know how much room I'll need to take off and land one of these things. It's powered by an OS 50FX. A friend of mine donated a junk plane to me and I scavenged everything I could off of it. A Nice find too - I used 3 Futaba Servos, the pack switch, the engine, and the wheels. I didn't use the Futaba 7 channel receiver or the other stuff on-board...I'd like to get that off my hands. The stock wheels on the Solo Sport were made of a hard foam and the wheels I got off the other plane were just like an inflatable tire - a bit larger too - I figure if I'm going to be doing anything in the grass they'd help.

A few questions I have:

How hard is it to transition from Heli's to a plane? [I can do FFF on a heli, nose in not a problem.]
Can this plane handle take-off's/landings on grass? Weedy Grass? Rough Grass? [I'm in Florida so the field's grass is pretty rough - it's close enough to home I could go over there with my mower and hack it real low, but it would be a 15 minute drive and I'm not looking forward to everyone in town watching me drive to it, or mow in a field the size of 8 football fields. I was thinking about a maike-shift runway - I've got 650' of used rubber conveyor belt - it's about 30" wide - I'm just not sure I could keep the plane going straight enough on it to keep it on it.]
Anyone with experience with this plane? Any pointers?
How much room will I need for take-off and landing?
How should I use the rudder on a plane? I know the rudder (Tail Rotor) on a Heli is used far more for Heli's than planes - I'm just wondering how to use the rudder on a plane - I was also wondering about using a Mix on the rudder. Could I mix rudder in with aeleron, if so, what would be the result? - A full scale pilot told me the rudder is used to coordinate a turn, but it is not necessary.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

Did you mean an OS 50SX? if so then you can use this
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCA81&P=Z

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

There are/were 40 and 46 FX engines but I don't know of a 50FX.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

Um.., where to start... first off I would suggest you only need about 75' to take off but until you get some expeience you will probably want about 350' to land! You will travel over a lot of ground waiting for the plane to touch down as trainers tend to float as they slow down. Width wise I would suggest at least 30 feet . On grass strips where the grass is fairly short 3" wheels works the best, a bit larger is ok but try not to go any smaller. On trainers you basically use the rudder to keep the plane steering straight on the ground and then you switch to ailerons once the plane has left the ground. On landing don't forget to switch back to rudder once the plane has touched down!! Don't mix rudder to ailerons. Using ailerons for steering while the plane is on the ground and speeding up can cause the plane to lift on one side and flip over. Ailerons turn the plane in the air by causing lift to one side of the wing and drag to another causing the plane to roll in one direction or the other. If you reallt want to go it alone, down load a free flight sim such as FMS and give it a go. I think you will be surprized how fast you crash, even with your heli experience! Practice until you either figure it out, or ask for help from someone that lives near you. Engine wise, the 50SX is a fine engine. Its stronger engine than you need but thats what throttles are for.[8D]

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

You should be able to take off in short grass pretty easy. Doesn't have to be perfectly flat, but not too rough. Just make sure you recheck your Center of gravity after putting those heavier tires on, and you should be alright. As for the rudder ... I wouldn't mix them either. Some people mix the rudder and throttle (the torque from the engine will make the plane want to pull left), but it's not necessary. The rudder, as stated before, is mostly used for steering on the ground, but on planes with alot of dihedral like trainers and warbirds and some scale models, it is possible to use only the rudder for steering while airborne. If you have a radio with dual rates, use them. The faster you go, the less movement your control surfaces will require. Also, you'll probably here this again ... but when you take off, keep climbing and don't cut the throttle back until after the first turn. You'll be surprised how much speed you'll lose in a turn. The main thing is to get some altitude ... at least 2 or 3 mistakes high. I would suggest above all else, to find an experienced flier to at least be there with you. A nose dive or tip stall from 40 - 50 ft usually isn't something pretty to look at. One more thing, pick up 2 or 3 extra props ... The landing is the hardest part of flying.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

You've selected an excellent first airplane to learn with, soop7667. The Solo Sport from Hangar 9 will provide you with years of enjoyable flying. It has a broad flight envelope ranging from mild to wild, and with an O.S. Max .50 SX on the front, you will be able to fly quite wildly when you're ready.

Being an experienced helicopter pilot should help you with basic flight in several ways. You're already familiar with flight controls, and you've learned that small stick movements can have a significant effect on the aircraft in flight. You are also familiar with control orientation and the difference between tail-in and nose-in control.

A Solo Sport refitted with 3" tires should be able to take off and land on a fairly rough grass field. Taking off with a .50 SX should be almost instantaneous if the engine is tuned properly and the appropriate propeller is installed. It's much more engine than is necessary for the airframe, but as long as the plane balances out OK, you should have a lot of fun with it.

With the .50 SX on the nose, your Solo Sport should weigh in around 6lbs. flying weight and is probably capable of 70mph + speeds. It's not an exaggeration to state that you could kill or severly injure or maime somebody with your airplane. An AMA membership would provide you with a subscription to Model Aviation magazine, a window sticker for your car, and $2,500,000.00 of liability coverage in the event you hit a house, car, person, or pet with your airplane. You'd also receive $10,000 in supplemental medical coverage in case you happen to hit yourself or get cut up by your own propeller. An annual AMA membership is $15 for pilots 18 years or younger, $58 for a standard adult magazine.

I've bought a lot of dumb stuff since I've gotten involved with this hobby, but I've never regretted my AMA membership. There are a lot more benefits to belonging to the AMA, but if you're planning on flying without liability coverage, I don't really need to go on. Spend the few extra dollars and protect yourself with AMA coverage.

Good luck, and post back to let us know how your first flights go!

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

Don't stand behind the plane to take off.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

Why not?
If's he's a beginner and the runway isn't busy there is no better place for the first few takeoffs. He will soon want to learn to stand off to the side for takeoff.
Naturally don't stand on the runway during landing. Might be painful and you don't get a good view of the plane as far as reading speed and glide path.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

I agree with Bruce. Every student that I teach I have stand behind the plane on the first few take offs. There are a lot of things going on with a new student and something as simple as standing behind the plane can help them more than you can imagine. What I do is after I the plane is up, at altitude, and in the pattern I walk the student back to the side of the runway so they aren't standing in the way of others that may need to use the runway.

Ken

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

I started out flying a Trex and now fly planes also. I think that planes are a lot easier to fly because you really don't have to use the rudder in the air.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

You don't? That's news to me, because I use the rudder all of the time when I'm flying.

Ken

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

If you do aerobatics correctly you learn to make proper use of the rudder. Some planes seem to turn better with a bit of rudder to coordinate the turn while others the rudder is decoupled and just creates a yawing motion, not roll - just depends on the plane.

Hogflyer

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

I'm sorry, i should of told you that i'm still pretty new at flying and i'm just doing rolls and loops. So i rarely use the rudder.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

Some things that come to my mind:
First off, with that engine, you might want to go long prop, short pitch. For example, maybe a 13 X 4, or (no more) than a 12 X 6. I'm not sure of the recommendations on that particular engine, but go big with small pitch (largest first number coupled with smallest second number according to OS). This will go a long ways in slowing the plane down for you. First off, it won't achieve such a high top speed. Secondly, it will act as a great speed break when you are ready to land.
You are familiar with being cautious around these things--the prop can cut a finger off, just as the rotor can on a heli, so you know all of that.
Make sure all of your servos are operating in the right direction before takeoff. Preflight every flight!

Rudder is very important on a plane, but your left thumb will feel kind of useless when compared to that of a heli. I too fly both, and a heli involves much more continuous use of the left thumb. Not so on a plane, but it is very important none the less. When correcting for cross winds, it can be invaluable. One thing to remember--and all planes are different--but (with your trainer) the plane is going to roll in the direction of rudder input. So if you are wanting to course correct without rolling (such as an approach for landing), then you will need to work opposite aileron with the rudder. This is different from a heli (where yaw control input doesn't affect roll or pitch).

Landing a forward moving object is different than landing something straight vertical, but you should get use to it. Just remember--you need more runway than you think to land. Always have more than you think you need, and try to land where the wheels touch the ground in front of you. That way (assuming you know how much runway is behind you) you will have plenty of room to stop before running out of runway. If you fly past yourself, then you may not touchdown and stop in time. (I hope that made sense).

Standing behind your airplane during your first several takeoffs will definitely help--and I recommend doing it. Just make sure you can walk backwards to your pilot station without tripping over anything. Little by little, start taking off standing closer and closer to the the pilot's station. Eventually, you'll be taking off from where you are "supposed to" and you won't even realize when the transition took place.

As far as mixing rudder, I wouldnt' do it with a trainer. Mixing it with throttle isn't necessary anyway. Left pull is induced by P factor, not torque. If your trainer is a tri-gear, you won't experience any of this on the ground anyway. P factor usually only affects a plane when it is tilted upwards--in a climbing attitude. Tail draggers are tilted upwards on the ground, so when accelerating (until the tail wheel comes up), P factor will pull the plane to the left. You have to correct this with rudder. With tri-gear, where the plane sits level on the ground, there is no p factor until you begin the climb out. By that time, you have enough stabilizer authority that P factor will not affect your trainer that much at all--especially with such a small prop. All of that to say--don't mix your rudder--either with throttle or aileron.

And I agree- setup some dual rates. However, don't mess with them at first. You have enough to do as it is. Put your plane on low rates and fly it for a long time. Then, turn it up and start using dual rates.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

OK! Wow - I didn't expect that much of a response so fast. UPDATE... I got the muffler extension I needed today and the rest of the stuff I needed - except for fuel - so I put some of my 30% Heli Nitro in it - One correction I need to make - It's not a 50FX - it's a 46FX - OOPS - I must of had my 50 Hyper on the mind. So I wanted to mess with it now that I had it actually running - so I put it on the street and did some zooming back and forth, ended up putting it into the wind - Did a nice hop - it rolled to a stop off of the road in the grass - didn't mess anything up - I tried again after restarting it - this time It really caught some air - oooops damn those pedestrians - It was either ditch it on the left, or hit the people that just came around the corner on the next block - I ditched it! I steered left hard on the aelerons, then I realized I was going to hit the back yard of that house back there - so I pulled up - it stalled, did a nose dive right into the dirt - broke my prop, and made some pretty bad looking damages on my leading edge where the wing meets the fuse. Some spare balsa, CA, sanding, and ultra cote worked well - Had her fixed in 1 hour! Either way - I learned one important thing - these things need a lot more room than you think - I need a field - not a strip surrounded by people and houses. Live and learn - I need a prop to have her fixed - Just waiting till thursday when I can get a new prop and some 15% Nitro instead of 30 - I don't wanna blow it. I think I'll Take off at my normal field on the road beside it, and land in the grass - I dunno - Either way - Just knowing that it will fly makes me feel good - It went a good 20 feet in the air when I pulled up - It really surprised me how much the plane lifted off after it got off the ground - seems like once your leave the ground it climbs really quick.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

If you simply must zoom around the neigborhood please take the wing off. No accidental flying that way. Had you hit someone the medical bill would have been very large as would the law suit. GET AWAY FROM THE INNOCENT PEOPLE.

You REALLY need some flight training. Maybe not a lot but I hope you've already seen that it can be dangerous to others.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

Bigmustafa is right! AMA is a great resource and worth belonging to. I would strongly encourage you to find a local AMA chartered field and get some help. The AMA web site has listings of all the clubs and there is most certainly one in your area. The club members will welcome you and help you learn to fly your plane safely and correctly. Or you can ask your LHS for advice on local flying sites. Reading you last post about "those damn pedestrians" is scary. Good luck.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

LoL -

I didn't come close to hitting them - and the purpose of zooming around at that point was not to zoom around - it was to do a hop to see if it would actually fly - Just didn't anticipate it to climb that fast once off the ground...the "Those damned pedestrians" comment was just in good humor.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

Oh it's not a serious thing but just one more habit to break. I'm a "thumber" and cannot stand the fingertip touch except helicopters. I would think it would be a bit embarassing to be at a Fly-in and have to get out in the middle of the runway to take off while others are up in the air. It's just part of the basics like flying a simple traffic pattern but instead many instructors just let them go all over the place and then become targets of people we complain about right here when "we/some of us" are responsible for this in the first place.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

As said before, this is for absolute beginners and they would/should certainly be weaned off this habit before solo. Personally, I still do it sometimes when I maiden a new plane. Especially when it belongs to someone else and you are unsure of its handling. Gives you just a wee bit more perspective for that first takeoff which can be an adventure in itself. I also don't maiden with other planes in the air.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

One thing you'll want to watch for, soop7667, is upthrust from the engine. You mentioned that the trainer took off much more quickly than you expected, and this occassionally happens with trainer aircraft.

You want the plane trimmed out so that it will fly fairly level at all speeds. If the plane flies level at 1/4 or 1/3 throttle but it automatically starts climbing upward once the throttle is advanced, that is often due to upthrust in the engine mount. If that's the case, it's easy enough to fix by putting a couple of nylon washers behind the engine mount at the top two motor mount bolts. This "shims" the engine mount and angles it downward just enough to remove the upthrust and allow the trainer to fly level while under power.

I recently posted about my maiden flight with my Tower Trainer .40 MkII. I had an upthrust issue with the plane and the thing took off almost vertically.

I don't know if you have this problem with your Solo Sport or not. It's just something to keep an eye on when you're flying it.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

We train on Tuesday nights at our club--closed to everyone except students. We take them out on the runway and stand behind their planes the first couple of times. Never had a problem with it and don't do it with more than one or two planes in the air. Everyone is on buddy box. After taking off, we grab 'em by the arm and walk them back behind the safety line--works great. We have had ocassions when, on other than training nights, someone wants to stand behind the plane for take off. Always ask permission and let others know what you are doing. Not had a problem with that either. Common sense and courtesy go a long way.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

Yeah - I don't really plan on standing behind it - I did my little hop yesterday from the side view - I don't feel that I have a problem percepting the orientation of the levelness. It didn't just take off on it's own - I gave it some elevator - then it just came up faster than I anticipated and it was going a lot faster than I thought too. I have a huge lot that I use to fly my heli's at just a few blocks away - no trees, powerlines etc. (pedestrians)...Theres a road that runs by it - I am thinking my plan after yesterdays experience will be to take off using the road - then walk into the field circle around a bit until I get where I want to be - there's a nice strip of pretty short grass with a nice flat spot - then I will practice approaches till I get down around 10-20 feet high and go around for another few passes - once I get the feel for it - I'll attempt a landing. I think this is a reasonable flight plan for my first flight. I won't do any wild turns or anything crazy - just nice and easy. I've flown planes before - just not a "real" one - not one with control surfaces...I flew a lot of the Aero Aces - (Air Hogs), they just turn my speeding or slowing one of the motors - then myneighbor has a firebird commander - that has a V-tail on the back - two rudder like control surfaces - He can't fly it for crap, but I've flown it 3 times and I haven't had any problems with it at all (Safe Mode Disabled) - I can do whatever with that. I realize that ther's a lot more to my plane than his, and my previous experience isn't gong to cover everthing, but I think I'll be able to handle it - I may attempt a first flight in a little bit, or I might wait until tomorrow - debating on whether I should wait for the 15% nitro, instead of using the 30% I have it her right now.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

"my plan after yesterdays experience will be to take off using the road - then walk into the field circle around a bit until I get where I want to be - there's a nice strip of pretty short grass with a nice flat spot - then I will practice approaches till I get down around 10-20 feet high and go around for another few passes"

Great plan as long as everything goes your way. I'm selling tickets for when the engine quits shortly after takeoff and "until I get where I want to be" ain't gonna happen.

I'm trying to decide WHY you won't get ANY help with this. Ego, plane martyrdom or simply stuborn.

Good luck.

RE: First Plane - Almost ready to go - Give pointers?
 

Well - you can't know everything about why - I'd really prefer to go to the local field and join AMA and get help there but one major reason is this-----> I'm a single Dad - I don't do baby sitters, and If my 5 yr old isn't in school or his afterschool program, then he's with me and me alone. Can you immagine me having to keep an eye on a 5yr old and a plane at the same time? - I can tell you how that would result - me crashing my plane because I drop the radio to go grab my kid before he run's up to someone who might be tuning their engine on a stand and before he chops his little red nose off. =) In the field I would go to by my house there's ample room for him to run around and explore without me having to worry about other people spinning up props @ 17,000 RPM and running planes down the runway he just wandered on to...That's really the reason in a big nutshell...As far as my engine dying - sure, that COULD happen, but I'm not stupid - I'm not going to run it in the air until I test a full tank of fuel on the ground...I'll set my mixture and make damned sure it's all functioning tip top, and if it would happen to go dead in the air, then I'll just have to dead stick it in - rest assured if it was heading anywhere near my son I'd be planting the nose in the dirt long before it got anywhere near him. If any of that sounds bad I apologize - I'm just a very sarcastic person. Yeah - I'm a bit stubborn too, but I did learn on my own how to fly heli's and that didn't take me long at all - I've found that when I pick up a radio and start playing with something I just get it to work - yeah I've had my problems - but that's the best way for me to learn. The guy at the LHS told me it took him 3 months to learn how to hover his heli - I was hovering my first heli in 4 days and that was a CP Pro - mind you I had absolutely no experience with anything remotely like it - maybe I'm just the kind of person that beleives I can do something so much that when I try it - I just do it. I read and read and read on all these different forums, I tinker and play with my radio and plane all the time watching the control surfaces move, imagining a take off, a landing, a turn...I guess I just beleive I can do it - and if I do happen to crash it while trying - I'll enjoy fixing it too. I get a lot of pleasure in taking something that's all screwed up and making it like new again - and being the perfectionist that I am, it gives me an extra special feeling when I look at that repair I made and I say to myself - yeah...I did that. Hell - that's been my whole career - it's what I do - I get sent in somewhere that's all screwed up, fix it and make it work right, and then get moved to another place that's all screwed up - and then eventually, I get sent back to the first place I fixed and fix a whole set of new problems.
It's just really hard to bring my son to the field and keep him happy and safe - at my field he looks for bugs and plays explorer - at the air park - he'd get put into a dangerous situation, and I'd look like a real dip**** of a dad.

So I have my reasons - too bad theres not someone around me that would meet up with me at the field I intend to use.