LT-40 Trainer
 

For one thing SPADs are not indestructable, they are tuff little buggers though. Second If you ask any experianced pilot, balsa or spad, they will tell you that you will crash, it is just a matter of time. Crashing is part of the hobby. You can stay with your trainer for the rest of your life and fly basic circles and eights, but one day you will crash.(murphy's law) We promote SPADS, because of a number of different reasons. They are less expensive to build (for the thrifty), they are tough (for that little bit of extra comfort that if you do have a bad landing, your chances are that you don't pick up a lot of splinters), we can experiment with different types of planes. (because we can afford to), One SPADDER has litterly re-invented the wing (check out the QHOR). We are just trying to help people enjoy the hobby. I have been flying for a couple of years now and I started with balsa. I learned on balsa. I repaired my balsa. I was also nervous as heck everytime I took up my balsa. I have been in SPADs for the past Two months. I stripped my balsa of parts and put togeter my first SPAD. I enjoyed it so much I have since built another two planes. I have a trainer, a SSC plane, and an experimental plane, anfter making it, I can say that ,maybe, I made a contribution to others that have helped me so much to enjoy this hobby. I just ask you one thing, before you knock something and say it is bad, try it. It will cost you only a couple of hours and about ten dollars. Try it and then if you hate SPADs so much, then come back and abuse away. I don't think I have ever read anyone condem SPADs after building one or flying someones. Almost all SPADDers have built and flown balsa, alot still do both. But before you condem them or us try them.

LT-40 Trainer
 

Imcruz,
I still have my 4 year old LT-25 trainer in 1 piece, someday, when nobodys lookin, Im gonna fly it again.

Dont let the spad Nazis scare you out a great plane. :D
Find an instructor and youll do just fine. :)

LT-40 Trainer
 

Oh yes, we are promoting the hobby and promoting a different way of doing things. We don't make a dime to promote these planes. It is not like free advertisement for some corperation that sells kits. Personnally, I would love it if everyone in this hobby bought there own wood and made thier own planes. This hobby has gotten too comerialized (sp). (and they said ships made of metal would sink)

I can't believe that you guys are telling this poor guy, he will never have a mishap. This is why so many people leave this hobby. The only ones that stay are the ones who did't crash. Amazingly I see people crash all the time. Crashing is not a bad thing (unless you are flying were your not supposed to or not AMA covered). There is a seperate forum dedicated to crashing. Go there and see how many trainers you can find. And I am glad all you guys equipment is perfect. No bad servos, no ARF loose joints. Must be nice.

And my last messages are no toward imcruz, He has already made a wise decision to look at everything.

And how can you call us NAZIs. The nazi way was to limit people that are different, to get rid of those that differ. They did not like change and they did not like people that are different. Humm.. Now who does this sound like. If your going to referance something, don't referance your actions.

LT-40 Trainer
 

Have to agree with Gostbear,even though I have a few vote for sign planes,they do crash, they do break,and the people are beginning to sound like fired telemarketers,makes me lean more to anything other than sign planes!

LT-40 Trainer
 

I have to agree with Ghostbear, 100%. At my club I have yet to see someone crash their trainer. I agree that at some point everyone will crash a plane for whatever reason :( , but with proper instruction, it's been my experience that crash will come after a student flyer progresses beyond his/her trainer.

LT-40 Trainer
 

Maybe thats because they left the trainer too soon?

Also I would agree crashing on a buddy box is lower. It's usually in the period that ghostbear is in now!! no longer needs instructor to fly but still has some things to learn.

As people pointed out if your thing is flying sedate circles then the chances of a crash due to pilot error are lowered. But part of the learning process is pushing the envelope of your skills and with that comes a greater chance of a crash.

Balsa SPAD been there done that and broke both. More a matter of personal tastes too me!!

LT-40 Trainer
 

I don't care what people fly. I do care that people have a choice.

LT-40 Trainer
 

Spend several days reading, reading reading reading.
Spads are mentioned here less than Avistars, LT-40's and H9's. When someone requests info on a trainer, sometimes someone mentions Spads as an option, equal to and just as viable as any other option. Then someone may (lightheartedly or serious...it really doesn't matter) bash Spads. In fact, it was admitted in this thread by the basher that it was done lightheartedly because there hadn't been any turmoil lately. That's when the plastic vs. balsa debate fires back up. The threads go south by bashers, not by option presenters...but one thing I can say for sure is that the passion I see in some of the guys who fly plastic is incredable. There has to be a reason for that.

LT-40 Trainer
 

AMEN TerrellFlyer!!!!!!!!!!

LT-40 Trainer
 

I hate to even get into this. But, i guess i will.

Let me start by saying there's nothing wrong with flying balsa or coroplast. I build and fly both. When it comes to pushing the envelope, i do it with Spads. Why? Because i don't have near the time or money tied up in them that i have in my Spads. And, if i do crash a spad, i know that i can have another one in the air in a few hours.

I've trained people on just about everything, and it really doesn't matter, if they want to learn, they will. People who i've taught on duraplanes, and spads don't stress about tearing up their plane like people with the balsa planes do, for the most part. They built it, and know they can build it again, if need be.

Ghostbear: If you've been flying a year, and are still content with an LT40, i think you are in a rut. In a year, you should have way outgrown the LT40. After about a month after soloing, i was bored stiff with my trainer. I had maxxed the throws, and moved the cg back as far as i could go, and it was still boring. I am not saying that there's anything wrong with that, if you are content flying a trainer, then by all means, keep it up. But, for most people, what keeps them motivated to continue flying is to continually challenge themselves, and improve their flying abilities. A trainer can only go so far. From that point on, if you intend on getting better, you need a plane thats more suited.

As far as spad vs balsa, i've built and flown both. I know which ones i'll be throwing in my truck this weekend. But, its not because i don't like balsa, i just like to keep my pretty balsa planes pretty, so they get to stay at home more often than not
.
If you really want to improve your ability, find a plane that you don't mind losing, (be it balsa, or spad) and fly the snot out of it. At some point, your gonna crash it. At some point, they are all gonna crash. One of the old hats in my club told me this not long after i started flying (and lost my first balsa plane, btw) All of em have a number, and when their number comes up, its gonna crash. Unfortunately, we never know when its number is gonna come up.
If you fly it, its gonna crash.

LT-40 Trainer
 

Hey, the more "screen" time that Spads get, the more lurker's will read about it. They will say "What is this Spad nonsense everyone keeps arguing about?", then they will find their way to the Spad website and beyond. A good percentage of them will settle in. It's all good. :D

LT-40 Trainer
 

Well if someone asked you for a good truck what would you recommend? The one you're driving and love or the guy down the street who'se truck you've learned through your own experiences just doesn't work as well as yours?


Also, not everyone is looking for a "BALSA" trainer! But a "GOOD" TRAINER...

Semper-Fi Bro - I've been called many things but never a nazi for giving someone an honest choice.

No-one is trying to scare anyone out of what you call a great plane. We are giving options, and we know what we're talking about, most of us have been on the balsa side of the court.

BTW When I started almost EVERY individual (ALL BALSA PILOTS AND INSTRUCTORS) Said, if you're going to learn to fly, get ready to crash, it's the general concensus and mostly fact.

LT-40 Trainer
 

I havent even got in the air yet and all this going back and forth between SPAD and Balsa is making me sick.

The plane is going to go down. Everyone has to know this. REAL airplanes go down. I think one should build both. Get a SPAD, fly it till the wings fall off of it, practice your stuff. Then use your balsa so show everyone how great it looks with a "pretty" plane. Though I think the spads arent that bad looking, ANY OF THEM.

I'm thinkin about building 2 or 3 HORs to get some time on too.

If you crash your balsa, think of it this way. True you cant fly the rest of the afternoon if it's your only one, but you get to rebuild your plane. I am LOVING building my LT-40. Going by plans is simple. Once you rebuild it, you have to do your own thing to it, and that'll be a better feeling. It's a challenge of how nice you can make your plane AFTER you repair it...

LT-40 Trainer
 

Small Fry,

That was a good even ground answer. It shows us that both Balsa and SPADs can fly together in harmony. I vote lets end this thread before our pig headedness scares anyone off.

Can we all be friends?

Nukes

LT-40 Trainer
 

Gheeeze people,.... git a grip!

LT-40 Trainer
 

BTW- considering internet and posting on message forums is impersonal by nature. I just wanted to add that all my comments are lighthearted in source, and no ill intentions are meant or should come from any of my comments.

I just want you get into the hobby enjoy it to it's fullest whatever decision you make. That's we're all here in the first place.

As I said before, if you get the balsa trainer make sure you have it given the twice over and don't try to take it up without the help of a qualified club instructor - same would apply to any plane SPAD or otherwise. if you can't find an instructor..post a message about it and where you're looking and I'm sure one would be forthcoming...

LT-40 Trainer
 

whew, i didn't think sugesting a valid alternative to the LT would cause such a problem, SPAD and balsa both have there good and bad points.
i learnt to build and fly with SPAD and for my money it is the best option, a basic stick type balsa plane can take me 60 hours from go to woa and cost $150Aud and looks and flys like a stick, the same thing in SPAD takes me 20 hours and costs $20Aud.

the choice is yours, what ever you do have fun, if it's not fun your in the wrong hobby

LT-40 Trainer
 

I do enjoy building and flying my balsa planes I can say that none of my spads can compare to my big spit but I feel that is apples and oarnges, but The cost of repair and time onvolved to repair them is a lot higher than a spad. If you do decide on a balsa traner get a kit not an arf so you can get an idea what is involved in building one and if you do have a misshap you will have the plans to rebuild what ever breaks :D

LT-40 Trainer
 

I don't know how to respond. Your experience (and Ghostbears) and mine are so totally different. It would be a very rare Saturday where I wouldn't see at least one trainer crash at my field. I've seen ARF wings come apart in midair, pilots mistake their plane for another just like it, pilots mis-judge distances, pilots fly too far away, pilots dead-stick and fly into trees.

More, I crashed my own trainer probably 20 times before I soloed.

I think maybe we're not defining crash the same. Maybe you're thinking of a full bore crash into a pile of splinters. I'm not. I'm talking about a hard landing, a wing tip touches the runway, a pilot leans the wrong way at two feet, a pilot stalls the plane at the end of the runway, or dead sticks at take off. Any of these can cause serious damage to a wood trainer, and most durable planes will shrug them off. This is really discouraging for new pilots--the punishment does not fit the crime.

This is why we're pushing durable planes: The forums and newsgroups have been incredibly hostile to durable planes in the past. I wish I had a nickle for every time I read "flies like a brick" or "if it's built to crash it will crash". OK, I'm kind of an unconventional guy, and I like to see for myself. What I found was an eye-opener. I wouldn't be flying now if it weren't for durable planes. The durability made it 100 times as much fun. Yet still, at my field, I see 20 wood trainers for every Airmadillo or other durable. The wood trainer pilots are tense and hesitant, the Airmadillo pilot is having a ball.

If a newbie specifically asks for a recommendation for a WOOD plane, then I'm not going to tell him he must fly durable. But if he asks for a recommendation for a good trainer, you're going to see me or someone recommend a durable.

LT-40 Trainer
 

I practically had a zipper on the landing gear of my LT-25, only I used the large nylon bolts to secure the gear.
I ripped the gear off many times by breaking the bolts, but, I always kept spares with me and after a few mins of tailgate time, Id refuel and fly again.
Pretty much the same with the wingtips, usually ripped the covering although occasionally, Id have to replace a small piece of balsa and cover it with left over MK.
I had many misshaps learning, nearly all could be patched up enough at the field to get in some more flying the same day.
Once, I attempted a stunt that I was not capable of, which was a knife-edge and used left aileron and left rudder about 50' agl and went in at nearly full throttle.
The wings were attatched with rubber bands and popped of with hardly a scratch.
The fuse was another matter. It made an 8" crater, burried the engine and destroyed the fuse all the way back to where the wing used to be.
After I got over the shock, I picked up all the pieces, went home and re-assembled, much like a puzzle, what I could ,reinforced it with doublers ect., recovered with more scrap MK (at no additional cost) and after a tottal of about 4-5 hrs was ready to fly again.
Maybe you could beat that repair time some with the sign planes, but, that was my 1st plane and was(and still am) learning.
That plane, by the way, if I replaced some servos and a fuel tank and a few other robbed parts could fly again tommorrow.

My point, to some new or potential rc pilots who may be seeing this thread and might be ready to purchase a new plane, is that you need not be intimidated by rediculous ideas that it will end up costing you a small fortune nor do you need to worry about a balsa plane being as fragile as an eggshell and that it will be destroyed because of a bounced landing.
Yes, you could certainly pulverize one beyond recognition, as you could any plane made of anything.
Spad planes have thier place in the hobby and have thier advantages and scratch the itch of thousands of rc pilots around the world.
IMO we are talking about 2 different hobbies, by that I mean some enjoy building and flying scale and model aircraft and others just want a , cheap, type of plane, made from anything they can get in the air quickly and fly.

I like everybody, especially modelers, its just that it seems to me every time a newcomer asks questions about planes, like the LT40, which is where this thread started, if anyone give a positive response, here come the spad boys to counter every statement and its always the same .....cost. This just puzzles me, as I stated, I have a 4 yr old, $64 BALSA trainer with many hrs on it still wanting to fly.

Cant we just tell um what we like and let it go???

LT-40 Trainer
 

pick your teeth with wood but fly plastic. The worst thing about this sport is crashing but if you can fly the same day of a crash then the day is still a good day and you wife wont ream you about all the money and time you spent for 5 minutes of fun and another month rebuilding the thing that kept you away from her in the first place...

just my 2 cents... spend it or throw it away...

Ed

LT-40 Trainer
 

Most dirt naps with SPADs results in so much destruction, we could buy out Master Airscrew!
hint hint

:D

LT-40 Trainer
 

Cost is important, but only because it leads to "fun". First, I will admit (and tell all newbies) that the airframe cost is a small part of the total cost of this hobby. Let's look at what it takes to get a trainer in the air. You're going to need $100 in AMA/club dues, $200 for a radio and an engine, $100 for fuel and supplies. If you add a trainer ARF, for $100, that's an even $500. If you build a SPAD instead, you're probably around $450 (stay with me Spadders, you can't buy 1/4 of a gutterpipe).

So, for the first plane, no big deal, the cost is about the same. The problem is that $100 for the ARF is still real money for most folks. If you destroy that ARF, it's $100 for a new ones. That affects the way you fly! (As would the prospect of a 4-5 hour rebuilding project.) With the Spad, the cost of the second plane would probably be about $0 (because you have to buy a lot of the materials in bulk, so they're included in the $50 for the first plane). That translates into fewer arguments with the wife, more relaxed flying, faster learning, and MORE FUN!

A curious thing about cost. In my experience (both at the field and here), people come to Spad for the cost and durability, but the stay for the freedom to design and modify their planes. What drug me in (and I never saw it coming), was this intense desire to build my perfect aircraft. I have different values than everyone else, and SPAD allowed me to build the exact plane I wanted. Unless you have about a million hours of free time, and the patience of a saint, that's just not possible for most people building from wood.

Another place cost comes in is the ability to share. I have built Spads for two of my friends. It took me almost zero time to build three DPS as it would to build the one, since a lot of time is spent changing tools, and measuring, etc. We had an absolute ball flying the three identical planes, chasing each other, flying formations, etc.! Who could afford to be so generous with wood planes?


Nothing could be more in the spirit of SPAD. Absolutely. But if you tell a newbie that they'll still be flying their wood plane 4 years from now, you'll certainly allow me the opportunity to tell them that is not my experience. And if you enjoy telling newbies that building and flying an LT40 was the high point of your life, please don't ask me not to tell them the high point of mine.

If it feels like you're being overwhelmed by Spadders, it may not be a conspiracy. They might just be on to something!

LT-40 Trainer
 

I went yesterday to my local hobby shop and saw the LT-40 in person for the first time. It is huge!

One of the guys at the shop recommended the Hangar 9 Easy 2 instead of the LT-40. Before he told me anything I noticed that the Easy 2 seemed more durable I guess because of its metal landing gear ( the back tires) compared to the ones in the LT-40 that are spring wire.

If it wasn't for the overwhelming reaction from most of yall on the LT-40 I would have chosen the Easy 2.

I think the LT-40 is my choice, 95% sure. The guy at the shop told me that the OS 46FX would be a great engine for this trainer. They told me as well that if I was serious about the hobby which I am, to go with a 6CH Futuba Radio (6XA...) which costs $220.00.

These are the prices I got together:

LT-40 kit: $135.00
OS46FX Engine: $115.00
6CH FUTUBA Radio $220.00

TOTAL AMOUNT: $470.00

OUCHH!!!

That's a lot of money!!!. I have gone to ebay an see that I can get all of these for a total of $357, more or less. This is still expensive!

My plans are just to get my LT-40 kit for now, put it together, and once I am done, I would then get the radio, and then engine.

about the SPADS, I have checked out the website and saw some plans of the CL-40 trainer. Like I have said before, I do not want to build anything right now since I am not good at building. I want an ARF for now. Is there such a thing as an ARF SPAD? Never mind, I found them on the spad website. I will take a look at them.

This is getting expensive!, I just wanna fly and have fun either with BALSA or SPAD, or with a pizza box!

Ay,ay,ay! CARAMBA! can you believe that this the 98th reply to this thread?

LT-40 Trainer
 

Good for you Imcruz! welcome to the hobby!

Ay,ay,ay! CARAMBA! can you believe that this the 98th reply to this thread?



Yes, since most said the same thing over and over and over.