Increasing throws?
 

I have a H9 Alpha trainer (12 flights w/ help, now I solo). I was wondering how do you increase the movement of the control surface's. I want the rudder and elevator to have a higher degree of angle when they are at full turn. I currently have the control rod set on the outer most hole on the servo link and control surface link. Is their anything else I can do?? Thanks.

throws
 

new2this, hi ya . dont take this as gospel. if i remember right if you move the clevis inward towards the control surface it will increase the throw. i may be wrong so just try it in your shop and see.. ps. the alpha is a good plane. mine is still in one peace...... have fun spooner :D

Increasing throws?
 

yes the way to increase throws is to move clevis in toward the control surface and or out on the servo arm

Increasing throws?
 

wow i knew something..........lol

Increasing throws?
 

Alright. Thanks for the help!

Increasing throws?
 

your welcome

Increasing throws?
 

new2this,

Before you start going ballistic with the control throws, consider this... The designers give recommended throws for a reason. A trainer such as yours is only going to perform to a certain degree. If you go wild with the throws (esp the elevator), landing can really become a handful. Remember, the more throw you have, the more sensitive the controls will be (make sense?). A trainer with a very high lift wing will balloon easily during your approach and flair if you feed in just a tad too much elevator. More is not better in some cases.

For what it's worth...

nbcguy..
 

Yeah last night I was adjusting them and that thought did cross my mind. This plane flies so simply that I am not worried so much about losing control (The plane nearly lands itself). I am more worried the rudder or elevator ripping off the plane in mid flight. I am going out tommorow and I will see what happens.

Increasing throws?
 

"sniff" Wish I could go out tomorrow. -30C and 2 feet of snow

Increasing throws?
 

Hello, I was just thinking ....if you used the outermost holes on the servo arm and the control horn, you aren't getting maximum throw-not that I am suggesting you should necessarily. Its like a 10 speed bike ....outer hole at servo, inner hole at horn for max travel. Keep in mind this is not always wise vis-a-vis servo power and authority.....there might be other ways to quicken the control movement of your plane....removing a wing bay or more rearward Cg might be the ticket-what do you and others think of those ideas? YMMV
PS...I just reread the other posts and see the control horn hole issue had been already touched upon! oh well. Good luck

jaguar..
 

I have read in the other post/reviews that these can be nose heavy out of the box. I have thought a little about moving the reciever back towards the tail in order to move the cg. And I don't know what a wing bay is so I am not sure if I can remove it D. I do appreciate the suggestions. I think maybe tonight I will check the cg (I know I should have already done that) see where in the range it is and play with throw tommorow at the field.

Increasing throws?
 

new2this, another thing you might consider.......if your radio has dual rates, you can set up the throws you have right now as "low rates" and then increase the throws and set them up as "high rates"......use low rates on takeoff and landing, and high rates in the air.

Mike

glowplug
 

I wish I had duel rates. The Aplha trainer comes w/ a JR Quattro. It's a nice radio, but definetly a beginners radio. Thanks for the thought.

Increasing throws?
 

whatever the mod do it a bit at a time. especially when moving the CG back as a tail heavy plane is a handful.

sometime when the flying season is upon us in NJ I plan on doing an article on converting a trainer into a "second plane" including moving The CG and increasing throws.

right now the Avistar trainer that I plan on doing this to is waiting for a test flight for another article so if it survives I will be using that.

Re: nbcguy..
 

... also, more throw doesn't necessarily mean more control surface effect. It might mean the opposite if, for instance, the elevator moves so much that all it does is create more turbulence around the tail.

... also (sorry!) ;) this is unlikely to happen with a trainer, but excessive elevator movement can make the model snap. That is, roll over on its back when move the elevator quickly and you least expect it!

David C.

Increasing throws?
 

Well I went out yesterday and the throw increase on the elevator made for some tighter loops. The rudder didnt really make a difference as I already had it at mid throw, just took a little less trim on the radio to keep it straight. All in all it is a trainer and there is not a whole lot I can do to make it very quick. Tonight I am going to adjust the ailerons and see if I can get a faster roll rate. Thanks all!

Increasing throws?
 

If your hinge gaps are not sealed, seal them. That alone could greatly increase your control surface's performance.

Increasing throws?
 

How small should the gaps be? There is a small gap, but I didn't think anything of it.

Increasing throws?
 

They should really only be wide enough to slip a sheet of notebook paper through.


Mike

Increasing throws?
 

Alright, looks like I will be adding some covering tonight.

Increasing throws?
 

Make sure that any slop in your linkage is eliminated before you fly. Sloppy linkage will have more of an effect as you move the clevis closer to the control surface.

Increasing throws?
 

Hey new2this, let me know what happens when you give the ailerons more throw. been thinking about doing it to mine but haven't had time....you can give me a PM or e-mail.....thanks spooner

Increasing throws?
 

Will do, going out today in the afternoon.

Re: Increasing throws?
 

I don't know your plane but on all my Tower hobbie trainers I have all the throws set for as much as I can get.
I let a young boy solo one of them today and he had no problem.
I did replace all the control links with metal ones to play it safe.
All 4 of mine fly very nice
Just my 2 cents :)

Increasing throws?
 

I am interested in increasing my rudder throw on my World Supersport .40. If I move the clevis closer to the control surface it lengthens the control link.

However, doesn't it then require you to recenter the surface either by trimming or by manually trimming (resetting the linkage on the servo)?

So, aren't you back to square one again? Using the outside hole on the horn makes sense, or making sure your horn is setup for the neutral of the servo also makes sense to me to lengthen your throw.

I just don't see how moving the clevis out will lengthen the throw.

Increasing throws?
 

Moving the clevis closer to the hinge line (which is the effect of moving inwards a hole) means that the rudder moves more for a given movement of the pushrod.

It may be true that you have to re-centre the trim, but that doesn't effect the above.

Think of it this way . . moving the clevis, say 2 feet outwards (if there was a hole there!) would obviously reduce the throw of the rudder, it simply describes a larger circle.

David C.

Increasing throws?
 

--"If your hinge gaps are not sealed, seal them. That alone could greatly increase your control surface's performance."

--"They should really only be wide enough to slip a sheet of notebook paper through."

I have been using a T-pin as a means of spacing the gaps to prevent CA from leaching along the length and binding the control. Maybe 1/32". Doesn't the leading edge need enough clearance to allow easy movement as the small flat where the hinge line is cut butts up against the main wing/stab? Or do I need to bevel the edge down to as sharp a point as possible? I usually leave about 1/8" flat to support the CA hinge.

Does the covering need to be top and bottom or would sealing the bottom only with a flap of covering help?

Increasing throws?
 

If your control horns are properly placed on the control surface, where the holes in the control horn line up with the control surface's hinge line, you should not have to adjust the linkage. If they are not lined up with the hinge line, then you probably will have to make an adjustment. When installing control horns, you should try to make the holes in the horn line up with the hinge line of the control surface.

Mike

Increasing throws?
 

On control surface gap, the best amount is 0, zip, none, nothing, not a sheet of paper, nada :)

You don't want ANY air taking a "short cut" from one side of the surface to the other, espeically on the ailerons. Air will go from the high pressure under the wing to the low pressure above it any way it can.

Take a bit of covering or packing tape, and seal the gap.

The easiest way to do it is from the bottom of the wing with packing tape or heat-shrink covering. Disconnect your control rod, and force the control surface as far as it can move, opening the gap as far as you can get it, then get the tape or covering strip as far up in the hinge gap as you can, and stick it really well to the aileron and the TE of the wing.

You only have to do one side, top or bottom, and it doesn't have to be pretty. As long as it doesn't make the surface hard to move.

Sealing the ailerons will also make your trims stay better, reduce the possibilty of flutter at high speeds, and reduce trim changes with airspeed changes.

On anything beyond a trainer, it's a no-brainer, seal the gap :)

Increasing throws?
 

True, but on a trainer, there are better things to worry about!

Hinge gaps are scarcely an issue when flying a trainer.

-DC

Increasing throws?
 

ok back to the main question. i took the eye on the aileron control and lowered it by ten turns down (inwards) and it did give me more throw and now the alpha will roll a little quicker. its still a trainer so its not going to do rolls like a magic would. waitting for wind to die a little so i can get my h9 cherokee out , its a virgin so i dont want to fly in a big wind gust yet.....spooner

Increasing throws?
 

Ah! I get what you mean now.

Screwing in the clevis doesn't increase the throws, i just adjusts the centre point.

Moving the clevis pin inwards to a hole nearer the control surface increases the throws.

-DC

Increasing throws?
 

yes, and in my case the alpha doesn't have control horns but threaded eyes that the clevis hooks to. but same out come..

Increasing throws?
 

I think the control horn is what is mounted on the control surface. The control rod has the threaded end that the clevis screws onto.

I know increasing my throws on the alpha didnt make a huge difference, but it did help. I could ALMOST get it to hold a knife edge. I love that plane, wish I didn't sell it. I have a Aresti 40 now which I like, but everything happens so fast you really have to pay attention to what you are doing. On the alpha I could just relax and fly.

Increasing throws?
 

On sealing hinge gaps, David Cutler said:

True the vast majority of the time. But I've seen some amazing things show up at the field, including hinge gaps over 1/8" :p

Back to contorl throws,

new2this, some airplanes have a threaded rod that sticks up from the control surface, or a threaded torque rod instead of the plastic triangle with holes in it. In that case, you would "screw in" the plastic bit to increase the throws.

Increasing throws?
 

thank you montague i could not remember the name (torque rod). thats why i love this site.....spooner