How to land?
 

I've been teaching my father the enjoyment of RC aircraft. He's got about 10 flights in and is starting to grasp it. Takeoffs are not such a big deal but for some reason he totally sucks lining up the aircraft for landing(Sorry pa! ). I'm not usually good with describing what needs to be done on landings.

Perhaps you guys could give some pointers and I'll show my pa this thread.

Much Thanks

RE: How to land?
 

The best way that I know if is to have him do circuits, then make approaches at a certain altitude, say 50 feet. Then have him line up with the centerline and continue that and TELL HIM to go around, then do it again. Never lower than 50 or so feet. Then, once he is comfortable and lines up correctly, have him do it at, say 30 feet. Then continue that until he is again comfortable with that, then lower the altitude to 10 feet.... and continue this process until you don't tell him to go around at all, and he lands it.

The process is good if you TELL him to go around when it is unsatisfactory, and even if it IS. Continue to have him go around, and on approaches, you can continue to have him come in at lower and lower altitudes until you just don't say GO AROUND, and he then just goes in for a landing.

Then, once he HAS landed, a good landing, then you can have him do just about anything, but to follow the commands to go around or not say anything to him.

Also, during the landing sequence, do some dead-stick practice by having him go to altitude, first comfortable position so that he does not mess up the approach, then have him go to idle and make an approach. Once it looks good, have him throttle up and... you got it.. go around. After he is doing some fairly good approaches for dead-sticks, and after he has mastered the approach, then do some interesting dead-stick practice by having go to the downwind location, go to idle, then see how he handles the approach. Always remember that there are times that a downwind landing is necessary... especially if he does not have the air speed and altitude to get around for a good up-wind landing.

All this is part of learning to land, by the way.

This repeated activity may take a few tanks of fuel, but it works.

Good luck.

DS.

RE: How to land?
 

what CG said:D
and you could try low slow passes at head high then 2 foot with just a little throttle then have him cut the throttle all the while instructing to keep the fuse flat elevator controls speed here and throttle determines decent rate. keep telling him to "hold it up"( to slow when touch down occurs) with elevator (no power at all ) and this will induce the desired flair.

also print out the landing teaching guide available on this site under "rc comunity" and "rcuniversity" this will give him the all inportant WHY we do it this way. and really improves cognition of technique for student and instructor.. i reread it often and it is SOP for my students:)

RE: How to land?
 

The simulator has helped me tremendously in this regard too. I found I was using way too much aileron input on approach and I was all over the place constantly having to correct my corrections.

RE: How to land?
 

I agree with showtime, Simulator does help it a lot and IMHO, I learned it by myself, and experience tells many things, and ofcourse a little bit briefing helps him a lot, regarding use of rudder, elevator and linning up while landing, once the plane touches the ground, elevator stick should be back to neutral position, I think your dad would do it good, naturally it would take him sometime, cos, things don't change overnite, I hope he is gonna do good after few flights and with some encouragements.

Good Luck

Mody

RE: How to land?
 

Something else you can try if your not doing it already is have him use more rudder on approach. A guy at my field told me to start doing this and it really improved my approaches. When you turn onto final use the rudder to maintain centerline, and use the ailerons just to keep the wings level. Start practicing this up high using only the rudder to turn. Another thing to watch out for is overuse of the elevator. Try to maintain a constant rate of decent. Because of fear, the tendency is to keep pulling up while decending, and then the plane ballons up. Again, just takes practice.

RE: How to land?
 

If you have two controllers you could plug yours into your dads with a trainer cord and help him fly as you correct his mistakes

RE: How to land?
 

What CGR said is good, but I'll expand on it a little...

Usually, the first thing we learn is "Boxing the field". So have him continue to fly the box, but power down on each down-wing leg, and make each pass of the runway a landing approach. Tell him, "You're not going to land, you're just going to shoot approaches"

Pick a spot on the left (assuming you're coming in from the left) like a tree, building, of telephone pole that he should be lined up with when he turns onto final. You may find that "If you turn just after you pass that tree in the distance that you will be lined up with the runway" Etc.

Each pass of the runway will get lower and lower, BUT, tell him not to ever think, "I'm going to land next time"

Just plan to make another approach, with a planned go-around.

But when the time comes that the approach is really good, instead of going around, just flair and let it settle in.

RE: How to land?
 

No doubt landings are the toughest part of any flight. For me, I didn't know what I was doing wrong until I did it right. Then the whole picture changed and I knew then what a landing approach and landing was supposed to look like. If he has only 10 flights in, he has a LONG way to go. Give him time, at some point it will "click". It might take 100 landings or 50. Everyone is different. One very important thing, when he gets the hang of it in one direction, have him do approaches in the other direction. You must be able to land from both directions. I've seen some guys that would have to walk to the other side of the field to land if the wind changed direction, because they can only land from right to left. It's a big learning curve. Good Luck

RE: How to land?
 

Mr. Bassman,
I noticed you were in Chula Vista. I will be moving there (or near there) in November-December. How is your flying site? Are you flying out of the site in San Ysidro??

RE: How to land?
 

Just sent you an e-mail. Hope you get it.

RE: How to land?
 

No, I sent you a PM

RE: How to land?
 

I can see how a landing with an airplane is kindof dificult while a heli is simple (er) pratice in a sim. It may seem expensive but will save you lots of grief (and your pa lots of money in broken parts...)

RE: How to land?
 

Landings for me (as well as most others) is all about repeatition. So, like was said, lots of slower and moderately lower practice passes worked well for me. Flying the basic circuit and perhaps using the tops of some trees to gauge your height and speed and finding different places in either the downwind of final parts it (circuit).

One thing that someone told me which helped quite a bit, once you turn to final, bring the plane to you! Naturally, not over the pits, but after you make that final turn and now are starting to line up, aim for yourself initially. We all tend to push them away from us anyway, but I think you'll find that it will help in getting the plane closer to the center of the runway.

RE: How to land?
 

Ctdannyd
I think you just helped me. I am always landing way on the other side of the field. Like 2 rows in the beans (not a good place to be) What you are saying makes sense to me.

RE: How to land?
 

Landing approaches and low speed passes are the way to learn how to line up for the landing. I've always included in my flights a low "landing pass" or 2 in my pattern of flying, no matter what maneuvers I decide to work on. The reason is it always reinforces to me where to break my turn to line up. Always pick an object or a general area to line up to at the end of the runway.( plenty of fields have that "plane eating MONSTER of a tree out there! ) Pick you reference point and when looks like you should turn to final hold it a tad past that point and that's when you nail it down the middle of the runway. I always have to delay my want to turn by a split second from when I want to, then cut the turn and I am usually lined up dead center. Depends on the plane as to how hot you land it. Best way to check that is to take it up 300-400 ft up and cut power and glide to a stall and watch it. I have some planes that need to be flown to the ground, and some will settle and drift on in. Just takes time and practice with each plane. The low passes are also cool, just because you can see your plane zoom by and you know you have full control.

RE: How to land?
 

My simple addition to all the good advise is to pick at least some training days that have the wind directly down the runway. Your father should note that it is much easier to stay tracking down the runway and it is on these days that during a very good track, he should be coached into cutting the throttle and learning glide slope and ultimately letting the plane come down. No cross wind landings should be done until after the glide slope and landing flair are well accomplished.

What is wanted during training is focus on fewer issues, dealing with a cross wind and learning to establish a glide slope and dealing with a flair all at the same time is a bit much. Take cross wind out of the equation the first few times.

RE: How to land?
 

Nine Tips For Making Good Landings:

Make your approach with two 90 degree turns! The
"downwind" is parallel with the backside of the runway, turn 90
degrees to the "base leg" parallel with the end of the
runway and the turn 90 degrees on to "the final leg". Adjust
the descent with the throttle, not the elevator.

Keep landing in the weeds? Stand facing the field with
your shoulders parallel to the field. When turning on final
bring the airplane nose to line up even with your shoulder (pointing
toward the aircraft) and at the 10 or 2 o'clock position.
You're now setup for a perfect approach down the middle of
the runway! Control your descent with the throttle, start
with 2 clicks above idle. As you throttle back keep just
enough pressure on the elevator to keep the nose level
until the plane touches down.

Don't "short cut" your landing...always fly to your shoulder,
while you are facing your field.


A good approach pattern, especially the final leg, will
generally determine the quality of your landing.

When making the flare, keep bringing the nose up by holding
up elevator. Keep pulling more and more up as the plane
slows, when the mains touch, neutralize the elevator
quickly to keep from bouncing two or three times.


If the landing results in a "bounce", apply a little throttle,
level out by neutralizing the elevator, and touch down again.
(You want the engine to pull your plane to level flight,
otherwise the plane stalls and that generally means repair
work.)


Practice learning how to land with a "little power", and cut
just before touchdown occurs. (Bring the throttle stick to
idle and then move it up one or two clicks). This technique is
especially useful when landing into a stiff breeze.


When landing into the wind, assuming that your plane is in
trim, add one or two clicks of down trim to help
the plane lose altitude. On touch down just neutralize the
elevator.


Instead of trying to "flare", trying skimming along the
surface of the runway as long as possible, at idle.

RE: How to land?
 

what i was told then i was learning to fly was just try to hit myself. and when i would fly circles, fly over the runway. when you get close to the ground use very small adjustments on the ailerons. this is just what i was told when i was tought to land. but i also had alot of airplane comprehension which helped alot.

RE: How to land?
 

if you have a bean feild next to where you fly at that will also teach him how to land. i used one next to my house when i would fly by myself, i would set up just like i would if i was going to land normally and the beans would just catch the landing gear and plane would go into the beans. wont hurt the plane one bit. but when they start drying out, landing in them then is a bad idea. trust me i'm speaking from experience. you will get lots of monokoting experience.

RE: How to land?
 

Hey dirmagnet I can tell you from experience (Don't land in the bean field) It grabs the landing gear and slams the plane down. Seen it happen today and one was on a dead stick. The beans are so thick. I have not crashed my Cub (Goldberg) but I have put it in the bean field 2xs an both times needed repair--torn the landing gear off.

RE: How to land?
 

i'll be dang. i never messed my avistar up one time when i was learning. it could be because its a tricycle. i dont know. but that cub should land even slower than that avistar. i dont know maybe i was just lucky. well in that case then dont learn to land in a bean field. you just have to know how to crash like me. i'm so good, i make crashing look good :D

nah i'm just kiddin. well if it tears the planes then dont do that. maybe i was just lucky.

RE: How to land?
 

have him fly the plane directly towards him durring his final to the runway, when he is over the runway have him just turn a bit and set it down this worked verywell for me durring learing, Bill

RE: How to land?
 

Have him face slightly into the wind and look back over his shoulder. Makes it easier for beginners to use the controls as the rudder and ailerons are then intuitive (unlike when you are facing an incoming model).

RE: How to land?
 

I read as far as the first reply...now, I'll go back are read more after I post this:

'The best way that I know if is to have him do circuits, then make approaches at a certain altitude, say 50 feet. Then have him line up with the centerline and continue that and TELL HIM to go around, then do it again. Never lower than 50 or so feet. Then, once he is comfortable and lines up correctly, have him do it at, say 30 feet. Then continue that until he is again comfortable with that, then lower the altitude to 10 feet.... and continue this process until you don't tell him to go around at all, and he lands it. "

I haven't solored yet, but did made a couple of landins last weekend. My instructor told to do the same thing. I practiced circuits, lining up and cutting revs to simulate landing...all from 50-75 feet up, until he felt that I was getting the hang of it. Then, I started coming around lower and lining up on the runway (the hardest part for me), bringing almost to the ground, then putting on power and coming around again. When I felt that it was right, I set it down textbook perfect. Then on the next attempt, I over corrected when it started to bank just as it landed and forgot to flare it and it nosed over and broke a prop. But, I did get the hang of it and think this week, I'll do better.