Are all trainers trikes?
 

Is there a tail dragger that is suitable for a beginner?
Thanks, Laurence

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

One of the main reasons most (if not all) trainers are tricycle gear (nose wheel) type of aircraft is that they are easier to steer on the ground. Once the tail leaves the ground during take off roll on a tail dragger, ALL steering is rudder controlled and can vane into the wind if left unattended. This is why we are taught to hold a little up elevator during initial roll on take off, or at least I was taught that way. This is to aid in tail wheel effectiveness for the first few yards of roll-out on take off. Once this is released, the tail wheel immediately lifts up off the ground and the steering is totally rudder controlled.

Steering a trike is easier because once the nose wheel leaves the ground (and most... MOST) of the steering which was controlled by this wheel loses effectiveness, well, the plane is airborne and flying.

Now to answer your question, I don't know of any real trainers that are tail draggers. There may be some, but I am not aware of any. Perhaps some others have a better answer to that than I do.

CGr.

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

I am replying to my own post here. I had no sooner posted my message than I saw RCKen's list of "what's available". That should answer my question.
Kinda reminds me of "if all else fails read the directions".
Laurence

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

Most trainers are setup as tri gear. I am one of the few who feels like a properly set up tail wheel can be better than a tri gear setup for training, mostly because after the first rough landing the nose wheel warps and the plane never tracks staight again. But it does take a little technique to tame a tail dragger in a cross wind, especially on pavement.

Hangar 9 markets a Mustang they claim is a trainer, and it is a tail dragger, but many (myself included) will debate whether or not it is actually an ideal primary trainer.

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

It's more than the steering. The nose wheel also cuts down in the likelyhood of nosing forward and snapping the prop. Doing that often enough isn't good for the engine, either.

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

Sig's LT 25 is a tail drager trainer. But I can't think of a commonly used trainer these days that is not a trike.

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

Like most things, there are two schools of thought.

When you learn to drive a car, most people feel that it is better to learn on a car with an automatic transmission. You have a lot of new things to learn, so why complicate the situation with a stick-shift?

Others feel that you should learn on a stick so you have a better understanding of how cars work.

Personally, I would never tell a kid to learn to drive with a stick... Nor would I recommend a trainer with a tailwheel.

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

I think you should learn on what you want to fly as long as you have someone (A Good Instructor) to help. And yes the H9 PTS P51 is a good trainer plane if you have (A Good Instructor) to help.

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

More proof that I'm a contrarian, I learned to drive with a stick and learned to fly using a trainer with a tailwheel. :D

However, I do agree that automatics and trikes are much less complicated, and probably better for beginning.

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

One guy at my field, Doc, contends it's even better to learn on an electric. His argument: It takes the complications of figuring out your motor.

I can see that... And while RCKen will argue the point,:D there is a neat sound to the electric airplane flying by, and the "woosh" of air it makes...

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

Electric airplane.[X(][X(][X(][X(] What about the lack of noise factor, what about the lack of the smell of nitro factor, what about the lack of smoke factor. That is just UnAmerican.:D

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

Yup.. Electric...

Then again, when Doc puts his big stick in a power dive... Man what a sweet "scream" it makes. He'll pull it out at about 30 feet and take it up to a hover... Smoke is on.... Sweet, sweet, sweet.

When he flys... I just sit down and watch.

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

The reason conventional gear (taildragger) is slightly Less directionally stabile anytime the wheels are on the ground unlike tricycle gear is that by neccessity the aircrafts center of gravity is behind the last and first point of ground contact on takeoff and landing (the center of the main gear tires or footprint. The CG will try to swap ends with this contact point every time. Just as if you shoved a pole into the mud in the front of a raft drifting down stream, The raft will spin around every time.

The Center of gravity of a tricycle arraingement by neccessity is always forward of the main gear which hopefully is always the last and first point of ground contact. The CG in front is now happy and will want to keep going its merry way straight ahead.


Both types of landing gear have their applications in a variety of aircraft that goes way beyond just flight training or ego and macho.

Both types of gear can and are used in basic training but the key is as always working with a mentor/instructor. The Sig LT-25 in ARF or kit is a superb primary trainer with conventional gear intended for tentyfive sized engines is close to the size of many forty size trainers.

John

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

true but a well placed LG on a tail dragger has a more forward point of rotation and with a little up elev they taxi fine.
A landing gear metal or plastic as opposed to music wire is a more durable set up( with plastic mounting bolts) . Converts to skis or pontoons easily as well so ? MORE FUN?:D
My instructer had and club at the time recomended Carl Goldberg Eagle with Alum LGs. I was instructed to use a tail skid to learn rudder / throttle control right off the bat. We did a lot of float flying in those days as a lot of our members had lake houses. So rudder control on the water was required.
The club was the LORCS in Eldon, Mo. Guess who was my instructer .... HINT: he designed/flys very FLAT SQUARE CORO planes.;):) I would hate to guess how many RC pilots he has taught. There is two guys at my current club near springfield mo that were taught by him and we both teach new pilots as well.

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

I got ya beat here. I learned to drive on a '63 Chevy pickup that had a 3-speed on the column!!!! Talk about a work out while driving!!! :D:D


Ken

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

1963 Studebaker Lark. 6 banger & 3 on the tree also.

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

The World Models LA Flyer 40 ARF is a shoulder-wing primary trainer that is a tail-dragger design.

http://www.airborne-models.com/img/L...rangeLarge.jpg

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

Well because of our grass strip every tricycle type has trouble. the nose wheel gets canted off to one side or the other and it just wont track straight. center it and it wont be long till its all screwy again. so we all convert our planes to tail dragger designs. now the converted planes all can do touch and go's all day long and not a single problem with the steering.

Just hold up elevator till your up to speed, then give it a little down then when the tail is up give it a little up and you are in the air.:D You take it from there, just don't hit the trucks!! please!:):D

I really didn't find it much more difficult in practice, just a different technique involved. maybe have the new pilot ground taxi around to get the feel for there new plane be fore trying a take off?

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

I had one of those for a while. ;) Not sure of the year, but it was the same vintage. I remember that it didn't have power steering, so the wheel was supersized. The one I had needed engine work. Burned lots of oil. When someone decided to tailgate me I took great delight in stomping on the gas and watching the blue smoke pour out of the tailpipes. They quickly decided that tailgating was a bad idea. :D

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

Everyone knows real cars have manual transmissions and real planes are tail draggers. The rest are just... transportation.

Had a '67 Falcon with 3 on the tree and all my Stangs are gear jammers as well.

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

Ours had one purpose, and one purpose only. It was a farm truck. We used it mostly for cutting firewood. We would load down the bed with so much cut wood that the frame would be sitting on the axles, and then we would come up out of the woods were we would be cutting wood. That ole 6 banger would moan and groan, but she would always make it out with the load on it's back. I really miss that ole truck now. I know I sound like my dad (and grandpa) but they really don't make em like that any more!!!

Ken

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

Me, I learned to drive in a 1936 Dodge 1/2 ton pickup. 3 by the knee and armstrong power steering, footstrong power brakes. I learned to fly Radio Control with a Livewire Champ. It was a Taildragger. In fact, I don't remember ever flying an airplane (model or full scale) with training wheels. It just ain't natural. Sure does look easier though.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

1960 Ford Falcon. School had a fleet of them. Some automatic and some manual. The guys drove both and most of the girls just drove autos. Their choice.

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

What's the old saying?

"Nose wheels are for taxi drivers.":D

RE: Are all trainers trikes?
 

A 4* 60 is probably the closest tail dragger that could be called a trainer. If you start with that, you'll save yourself the price of the tricycle- highwing to begin with & you would probably be buying the 4* for your next plane anyway. The 4* is probably, no, it IS the most forgiving low-wing taildragger on the market.I would almost guarantee you if you started with a 4* you would learn more & faster than if you started with a high wing.. AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A GOOD INSTRUCTER !!! Good luck & good flying Remember try to always land with the wheels on the bottom!!