Simulators?
 

I'm looking to get into RC flying, and people have recommended using a simulator to help train.

Would it really be a good idea? Are the physics in a good simulator really similar to RC aircraft?

I guess overall my question is how effective are they when used in addition to real life practice. I probably wont have the luxury of training with a person who already knows how to fly, so keep that in mind.

Also, what simulator should I get? My PC is beefy enough from a processor and RAM standpoint but my graphics card isnt exactly gaming class.

RE: Simulators?
 

it will help to a degree but it would be best to get with a club and get help.there are alot of clubs in ca and alot of us drive 15-30 minutes or more to get to a flying field.

RE: Simulators?
 

you dont need graming speed. the real flight is the most use but i think the one by hanger 9 maybe alittle more real. i have the real flight 3.5 it just fine. also a sim is going to help you with the left is right thing. with rf you can down load new plane for free at knifeedge.com

RE: Simulators?
 

I think using sims are a good idea, especially if your going alone. I have Aerofly Pro deluxe and it is great. I used it to learn how to fly heli's and it worked like a charm. I already flew planes and I love practicing 3D on the sim as well.

Good-luck and God Bless,

Jay

RE: Simulators?
 

Thats true, I guess at the very least it'll give me the experience of flying from the ground and dealing with control reversal and stuff.

downloaded a demo of realflight g3, crashed bout 50 times before I landed, and even then it wasnt anywhere near the runway :P

RE: Simulators?
 

I love the simulator. I use it to practice manouvers before attempting it on my real planes. Some, not all, downsides to the sim as I see it are:

1) Wind in the sim is not realistic. Real wind will have a buffeting effect on your real plane creating pitch, yaw and roll variences that you must learn to counteract. In the sim it just pushes you plane some depending how strong you set it in the sim.

2) It seems that in the sim the planes relitive speed is slower. I can fly a jet plane at 200 mph in the sim and land it, I seriously doubt I could in reality.

3) Without practical aplication, real training from a real person, you will develop habits that work in the simulator that do not work in reality. ie. Most planes in the simulator will allow you to simply chop the throttle to an idle and glide in for a landing. Try that with a warbird, and some sport planes, and you will be bringing home plane parts instead of a plane.

4) The plane in the sim is perfectly tuned and trimed for flight. If you expect that in reality, you will be soarly disapointed.

These are just some downsides. I'm sure there are more. I am in no way saying do not get a sim. Contrarilly, I say get one. Just try to get an instructor too.

RE: Simulators?
 

a simm is great for orientation with a radio and for someone that has never operated one.

RE: Simulators?
 

I can see what you mean about how you can develop habits that wont really translate into real flying, as well as the tuning thing but I guess a lot of that is made easier if I get an electric trainer instead of a nitro. Nitro is a pain enough in my cars, and cars dont die if the engine stalls.

RE: Simulators?
 

first off if you are wanting to learn with instruction then here is our club http://flypcc.org/index.shtml we are in Half moon bay about 40 min drive away from you,there's also a couple of other clubs near where you live.
we have meetings once a month by SFO you will find plenty of help with flying a plane.

on sims I have a Realflight G3.5 and am really happy with the results I have gotten, between actual flying, and the sim practice, I had alot more improvement in my skills than just flying at the field alone, it takes practice,the nice thing with the Realflight is the controler its passive so it doesn't require any batterys to use it,unlike when using your radio,
as for the simmalarities to the real thing, I think there pretty close,as well as having many planes that can be uploaded from the www.knifeedge.com website that other users design that are nicely done and very close to there real life counterparts, as well as the ones provided on the disks with the sim.

RE: Simulators?
 

Niether do planes if you are properly trained.;)

RE: Simulators?
 

Good point

But cars have brakes you slam on :)

Anyway, I went ahead and ordered the RealFlight G4 simulator w/ controller, seems not only useful but quite fun.


One thing though, as I've been messing around with the demo, I find as if its EASIER to use the ailerons and hardly ever touch the rudder, while most people say that training wise you start with using rudder only first.

RE: Simulators?
 

In the "old days" a four channel set up was... the cats meow so to speek. that translates to "the bomb" in the most modern terms I know, at least 3 years old now. Thus many learned on rudder and elevator only. They even had constant engine speed untill it ran out of fuel and you had to glide in for a landing every time. Well just as popular phrases change so does R/C. Now it is more common for someone to learn on a "full house" trainer. This means it has Throttle, Aileron, Elevator and Rudder. It is however very common for new pilots to disreguard the rudder and "bank and yank" around there turns. Nothing wrong with this in my opinion. You will use the rudder on take off and landing... In reality. This is another bad habit you may form with simulator use that can bite your "six" when you start flying for real.

Planes have brakes to. You learn to use them with practice. Altering your angle of attack and adjusting throttle is one of them. Some planes have flaps, speed brakes (spoilers), Flapperons or Spoilerons. You must see now that here is a lot your assuming. Get some help from an instructor and this whole world will change. You will sell all your cars to buy more planes.

RE: Simulators?
 

One thing though, as I've been messing around with the demo, I find as if its EASIER to use the ailerons and hardly ever touch the rudder, while most people say that training wise you start with using rudder only first.
[/quote]

there is also some who think the earth is flat but it doesn't make em right.
weather you start with a nitro(my prefered power source) or electric your best bet is to learn on a 4channel plane with full controls,throttle,ailerons.elevator,and rudder,this is the basic set up for full scale planes,and should be learned from the start of your RC training.

RE: Simulators?
 

Thanks for the advice guys

and as far as "the cats meow", I still use it from time to time :P

RE: Simulators?
 

Also, im looking at getting a Hobbico SuperStar EP RTF trainer to start with (in addition to a sim).

Assuming I want to train on electric, is that a good choice?

Also, for the same price, it comes anywhere from 36" to 50" in length. Should I just get the largest one? would that handle easiest?

Thanks for all the help guys!

RE: Simulators?
 

a good rule of thumb with planes is, the larger they are the easyer they are to handle,more stable in the wind,as well as being larger in the sky for the visibility.
in general I fly 60 size planes,65-70" wingspan size warbirds and sport planes and they get small fast,when your learning you want to see your plane well so your not loosing orientation.
there are many who like the smaller planes your going to get many opinions.
as for power I do like glow/gas engines,just fuel and fly,but there's some good electric engines these days,its the batterys that really end up costing a bunch.

I would do a search here on RCU for a review on the plane,alot of times you need to change engines out on some of the electric planes for them to fly well, adding to the cost,I started with the Nextar ready to fly nitro trainer and it was a good plane to return to RC with,if the Superstar fly's as well then it should be a good start.

RE: Simulators?
 

Yeah, the thing with electric (even with cars) is that run times are short and recharge times are long, but I already have so many good batteries and all the support equipment so I figure at least for my trainer I'll go electric.

Even with cars though, my real love is with gas :)

RE: Simulators?
 

if you love fuel cars you will love fuel planes! electric is gaining in popularity so much though! our club president is selling out of all his glow equipment to go all electric he calls all of us "slimers" if you have glow cars you understand how much harder they are to clean than your electrics, but go with what you like! electric can be a little less intimidating, therefore a little more dangerous because people become careless with them when they are just as powerful, plus when they hit something, most times they dont stop until the power is cut, where a smaller glow engine (40 size) most times will stop when they cut one finger off. you will be selling cars, so let your buds know so they can save up some money for when you get addicted to planes and sell out of cars! good luck!

RE: Simulators?
 

One thing that you can do with sims, is to crank up the physics "time" rate.

This gives you a faster than real life experience.

The military uses this technique with their sims to help eliminate the "everything happens so fast" feeling that people get during missions.

By cranking up the sim speed, a novice learns NOT to yank the stick as a reflexive move when something goes wrong, and lets them calmly deal with real life situations.

For helis this is a real boon too.

RE: Simulators?
 

Here is my take on simulation software as a flight instructor:

Is simulation software beneficial? A good piece of simulation software is only an asset if the pilot is willing to methodically learn technique and not constantly play it like a game. If the pilot uses it as the tool that it is, he/she will see clear improvement. How much depends on the person. Some that use it can solo in a month while others can take a season, but I clearly notice that students using the software to supplement training have much more precise control and advance faster than their non-simming peers as a whole. Notice I said 'supplement'. No program can replace a good instructor because there are major differences between flying on the computer and at the local field.

Get the sim, but also find a good instructor.

RE: Simulators?
 

I took several hours of flight instructions from a pro at a considerable cost. Although my intent was to convert an old Goldberg Falcon 56 to electric, I let the instructor talk me into using his Nitro powered trainer and gear. I finally completed a takeoff and landing but by then had done the electric conversion and installed a Spektrum DX 7 in my old Falcon. Learning with this plane was aided by my prior experience but I am sure I would have proceeded much faster had I started Electric.

Because of various events , I have not flown for 6 months and although I had a few flights with 3 different aircraft, I am going to purchase a Real Flight G4 before I attempt to "qualify" at a local club field.

Although all 3 of the planes I flew are "tail draggers" I had no trouble with takeoff and landing. However, I think a nose gear equipped trainer in the 56 to 72 inch size range would be best if you have to purchase a plane anyhow. Takeff/landing is a challenge on a grass field unless you have a pretty large plane with big wheels. I have had several recomendations for the Hobby Lobby Telemaster Electro ARF. I recomend brushless motors and LiPo batteries.

RE: Simulators?
 

I just spent half the day at the hobby shop trying to figure out what kind I myself am going to be getting. I am trained to fly and all that good stuff,but after playing with REALFLIGHTS G4 yesterday at a store,I realized my FMS just doesnt cut it! I want a good sim just becuase its fun and I can somewhat see how other planes I'm curious about fly. Some planes like the mustang and big stick I flew on G4 were actually VERY realistic to me. They flew just like my own!

I flew Realflight G3 and the Hanger 9 sim today alot. G3 was pretty good,but I'd rather have G4 because it has a more up to date transmitter. The hanger 9 sim was OK,but not as good as the Real flight.

The only problem with Real flight is that it takes a VERY powerful computer to play them. My computer is pretty good,and has a decent video card,but will STILL need upgraded even to play G3,let alone G4. Still not 100% sure I'll even be able to use G3.

Real Flight sure is cool though,and although an instructor is a MUST no matter what,I think the sim would help anyone ALOT.....even for experienced pilots to keep there skills honed.

RE: Simulators?
 

Alright, I went ahead and got RealFlight G4 and a Hobbico 50" RTF electric trainer.

In terms of the PC the G3 demo runs very smoothly, so I can just turn off some of the fancier graphical effects in G4 if it bogs down the system. I have an E6600 Core 2 Duo with 2 gigs of DDR2 and a 256mb Radeon HD 2400. The Radeon HD 2400 isnt really gaming class but its decent enough for this it seems.

RE: Simulators?
 

A Tmaxx costed me 2 arms and 3 legs.lol
I can take it apart and put it back together in my sleep. My savage too.

You can't tell by using the keyboard on the demo.
as long as it's working good on your pc without glitches it's all good.
The defualt zoom on the demo is set out too far in
the demo is in pholistic mode.
A lot of it has to do with camera position. The defualt setting is too close to the runway.
That's why your having a heck of a time. When the camera on a sort of overhead shot pivets...it screws it all up.
On any sim.

In a sim the model's shadow kind of gives you a sort of wierd depth or hieght perception.
In real R/C..i'm too busy watching the model's wing ...leading edge if it's coming to me on final approch.
It's easier to land the model when it's flying away from you as it flairs..and you get the ground buffing effects
that a sim dosen't have.

As you know the throttle respons is not instant on your nitro car. In a sim it's instant. No clear out required.lol

never the less a sim is nice to have.

it's just a equirectangular panoramic picture with object mapped in.

You can make your own...rhis is a scene from my local park. i use the FMS thou
FMS has wind and thermo effects. Very helpful for hover training a heli.
You can't buy this add on nowhere.lol

RE: Simulators?
 

I've never seen anybody (including myself) charge for training. I and others do it for the reward we get from watching somebody we're teaching improve and watching the hobby grow, not the reward of money. I would suggest finding an instructor who is not motivated by the prospect or expectation of personally gaining something as tangible as money from helping a fellow hobbyist.