Kit Building
 

I don't know if this the place for this post, but here goes. I'm a beginner at rc flying. Many years ago I went to an airshow and saw the only civilian P-61 (Black Widow) flying. My goal is to build and fly a giant scale P-61, either Ziroli or Smith. I thought that I might build a plane while I learned to fly to the point that I can fly it. I'm sure that both will take years. I've been building plastic models since Eisenhower was president (you do the math) but I have never worked with wood. I would use a full would kit from a kit cutter. QUESTION: is there any book or other literature that would assist me in learning how to build such a kit. I know that I should get together with someone who is experienced, but the nearest club is about 30 miles away and my car gets 15 MPG. Again, you do the math. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Al

RE: Kit Building
 

My serious suggestion: Tower is selling off Lanier kits right now. Buy several, and take some time glueing, cutting, sanding and covering. Once done, outfit with radio and servos, engines and props. Fly the wings off them. They will give you invaluable training while having fun. Get some Top Flight kits, and work with them, read the Warbirds forums and talk with those guys. You will know when you are ready then. I am still working on a P-47 from last year. The last few months have been really slow as I have broken my foot, and can't make it to the shop to work on it.... doesn't stop me from making plans.
Good luck....

RE: Kit Building
 

The thing is you will need a couple of planes (steps if you will) before you will be ready to fly a plane like that.
Secondly, Plans like Zeroli for example, are ver sparse in instructions, these are ususally built buy experienced builders that have a good idea of what should go where.
You may have to bite the bullet and drive that 30 miles to get instruction and learn to fly for beginners.
You may find that some of the club members may just live around the corner from you and would be happy to help you with a build.
I would build a kit from one of the major manufacturers, they have good instructions and will give you some experience. SIG, Great Planes, Lanier, Midwest are a few of the good ones.

RE: Kit Building
 

if you aren’t experienced with building wooden models I think I would start with a trainer rather than a kit cutter type kit the instructions are scarce if none at all. get something with decent instructions and learn what you are going to need to build it then I would get into the more advanced kits after one or two of those.i enjoy building,if you are patient you will really enjoy the more elaborate kits.

RE: Kit Building
 

My club is 40 min away that doesn’t stop me

Also if you are thinking about a twin you need lots of training in a twin.

RE: Kit Building
 

Buy an ARF trainer.
Fit it out and start learning to fly, learn how ailerons function on the plane in flight, same with elevators, rudder, learn throttle management, stall recovery etc.

After getting the basic idea, then get yourself a laser cut kit from SIG, Great Planes etc and start building.
You will have more idea of how things function as a package from learning to fly, and then find it easier to 'see' how this would all go together by building a decent quality kit.

This is what I did and I found it so much easier to put my SSE kit together.
I have plans for a BT 109 sitting on the shelf and I'm about 12 months and 10 kits away from making a start on her.

It sure is good to see someone wanting to build.

RE: Kit Building
 

Ruthiesea, I also like the idea of you building, but as said above, you need to work up to a P61. What you might do is after getting your "wings", get something like a Ugly Stick and modify it by moving the engines to the wings and learn from there. While you're learning to fly a twin, build more planes and work your way up to the advanced kits so you will be able to build the Black Widow. I myself have plans for a 68" span Pitt's Model 12 as well as 70"+ spanned Edge, Katana, and Extra 300S sitting on the shelf waiting to be built. Since these four gassers are over my head as well, I'm just holding off TILL I CAN BUILD THEM PROPERLY before I start.

RE: Kit Building
 

Buy any trainer kit.
Kits such as the 4* builds pretty much like a trainer, actaully easier than the eagle II becuase you don't
have to build the rear stabelizer. Trace the wing ribs, formers..ect or keeping the rib's sheet is always good pratice.
These kits are still fairly boxie with minimal sheeting to form the deck. People bash the 4* all the time.
An SSE kit will give an idea of sheeting the wing.

You'll also notice or learn simple things as how the direction of the wood grain should be facing for certain parts.
Example..for the shear web the grain should be vertical..the same as the vertical stabilizer.
If the wood grain is horizontal on the vertical stabilizer..when model nose over during take off or landing, the
vertical stabilizer will break or form cracks horizontally.
If the grain is horizontal for the shear web..the spars will just pull it apart or comprass it to form cracks..making
the shearweb useless. Without shear web your model is not going to last too long during flight.

Geartplane kits such as extra300 caps232, are boxie constructions with sheeted wings and decks.

kits such as the sig cub will test your patient..it's stick build up not sheets sides.lol

Once you built the kit ..maybe you might trying cutting all of the parts yourself to have another kit.
You have the plans and parts that you can trace off of.


twins..oh yeah . There's plenty involve such as engine harmonics vibrations.

Way cheaper to purchase an arf than a kit...way cheaper to purchase a kit than to scratch build.

yeap...start off with an arf..lol if you crash it you didn't built it and it won't hurt so much.

I have a second .60 extra 300 and I'm about 10 kits away from putting her together too..have a nice OS 1.20 all ready for her too:D

RE: Kit Building
 

As others have mentioned , start off with something simple . Even the less complicated builds , take a long time from start to finish. A 4* .40 , kit built , without an engine or radio gear will run about $200 . It will cost 10 times that , or more to build a P.61 . I recommend practicing on something cheaper to began with.

There is a big difference between building plastic models ,and building an airframe that will stand up to the rigors of R.C flying. But your modeling skills will be an asset to you . By building an entry level plane , you will learn a lot ,in which glues to use , covering , fuel proofing , types of would , etc .

RE: Kit Building
 

There's a world of difference between interlocking plastic parts that need little modification to fit, and no matter if there's some misalignment or warp, and a wood "kit" that is more a box of sticks and sheet wood that has to have no warp or twist and each piece has to be played with to make fit. The best way to learn flying model building is to start simple and work up from there.

Starting off with that P-61 is like a rookie ball player thinking he'll knock it out of the park the first time at bat. There's the possibility, but a highly unlikely probability. Not trying to be a smart*****, but I and the others here want you to succeed, and have as much fun making balsa dust as we are.

Start off with a box-sided model with an uncomplicated wing, such as an LT-40 (Sig), and then build something like a Cub (fun to fly later anyway) , and then one of the Top Flite kits mentioned above. Get a feel for the techniques, and then walk the rope without a net by building from plans.

RE: Kit Building
 

Ruthiesea. First of all welcome to the wonder world of Flying and it's addictions (aka builiding kits). This is by far the best hobby in the world. I am only a year into the hobby and I would like to think that I started it off the right way. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge B-25 fan, I wanted to start flying the B-25 like yesterday however, that 25 minute drive to the Club with my 15 MPG SUV also was worth it. They helped me in sooooo many ways. I first learned how to fly while learning about the planes and all the great things that come with them. To now learning how to build my first plane. Trust me Ruthiesea...I want to buy and fly a B-25 so bad I can't stand it but I am taking baby steps if you will and getting the best knowledge I can first hand. I have friends that are willing to come over now to help with anything I would need help with on my planes. Like these guys have said build a trainer first for the experience and the knowledge of what a plane should look like. I have been flying a trainer for a year now and other planes but my first build is....yep a trainer. A Sig Kadet Mark II. I can't begin to tell you the questions it has answered already from my prior crashes that I could have fixed but have thrown away because of lack of knowledge. (just FYI... I only have 2 crashes... :D)

My theory to this great hobby simply is this. It is a hobby, however it can be a very frustrating hobby if you don't take your time with it. I have seen many many people already that take 2 days of training and think they can fly and tank their planes and then buy another and tank it. Then they quit. Take your time get yourself trained and get some knowledge then get ready to build the plane of your dreams. I promise it will be worth the drive. Good luck and again welcome to the best addiction in the world.

RE: Kit Building
 

You are asking about model building. One of the best way to learn is to build a "few" kits from the leading mfgs such as Sig or Great Planes. These kits are especially well designed and come with excellent step by step instructions. Working with these kits help to learn not only what to do but how to do it. A project like a Ziroli model is for highly experienced builders, meaning someone who has developed building techniques and skills to the point they no longer require step by step instructions, not a kit. As in most things, the way to get model airplane building experience and skills is to build model airplanes. Successfully. Start with something that will give you the best chance for success and whet your appetite for the "next one", which will be followed by the next one, which...................

Do get started building something, now! You will be glad you did.

RE: Kit Building
 

http://www.vqwarbirds.com/aircraft.html

I had to look, these guys have a P-61.

You will have a great time as long as you have some patience. I still haven't flown my first fighter, like I mentioned, I am still building it. I have started with a couple of trainers, learned to fly. Modified one of trainers (bashed), and gotten into several low wing sport planes. On my way to a P-47, P-40, and P-51, I had thought I would start with an AT-6 Texan. After all, it was a trainer. After I talked to a couple of people, I finally got an Alpha trainer. What they told me was if I took the time to build the Texan, once I crashed it, I would be severely dissapointed, and it would take a long time to repair it. A trainer is built more simply, and doesn't take nearly as long to repair. If I totally destroyed a wing, I could buy the wing kit and fix it within just a couple of days. When I took off the first time with the Alpha, and made it about 30 yds when I realized I needed assistance with the hands on portion of the training. In my head, I knew what all the controls were, and what they did, I have worked on aircraft for many years. What I didn't have was the physical link between the sticks and the controls. I found a club, it was more than an hour away to get there. I made arrangements for a couple of lessons, where I learned more than I thought I would. Before we got airborne the first time, we went over everything, the airframe, linkages, balance, batteries and charge, no problems. He got me to start the engine, and showed me a couple of helpful things about engines. Safety stuff - how to keep fingers out of props, etc. Anyway, after a couple of lessons, I finally got to solo, and I realized that I wouldn't just jump in at where I wanted to be. What I first felt was a distracting step from where I wanted to be, I now realize what I need to learn and accomplish to get there. Still need patience, but I know I have fun with every step I take.

RE: Kit Building
 

Well, here's a success story, similar to what you want to do. A colleague, former club president, decided he'd start in RC modeling with a Bob Smith B-17. Took him like 5 or 6 years to finish it, and at first he worked on the B-17 and concurrently built small kits and intermediate kits and twin kits, not much trainer stuff. He spent a lot of time repairing those which were re-kitted along the way, and taught himself a lot about building in the process. By the time he flew that (marvelously detailed) B-17, I saw him build & fly Four-Stars, Extras, a TF C-47, and a bunch of other items including a Zlin. I have now bought two planes from him, and had him frame up a Lanier Laser. He has at this point sold several very detailed warbirds to happy buyers in several nearby states.

He followed the path others have recommended, a lot of building planes, a lot of flying, and a lot of building & flying twin engine planes. You can find his posts here under username Memphisbelle.

You can, in fact, do it too. You will experience some setbacks, so I hope those setbacks occur with less expensive planes.

Best wishes,
Dave Olson

RE: Kit Building
 

There is a lot of good advice, but no one has mentioned cruising the kit builder forum, Q&A and tips forums. They have helped me out a lot on my first build.

I wish I had a club as close as you do. 30 miles is nothing if you are into the hobby. The nearest good hobby store is 214 miles and I still get there three times a year at least. The closest club is 120 miles.

I started with ARF’s, SPAD’s and I am just starting to cover my first kit build.

This is not a one airplane hobby

RE: Kit Building
 

It's a one hour drive to the field for me. So when I go, I either return with a empty fuel jug...or sooner with a "Bag-O-Balsa"! :D

Plastic display vs. R/C is like night and day, with both excellent in their own special way.

With your goal of the P61 always in mind, building, and eventually flying, a sport model from a kit will help you reach that goal, IMO.

Everything learned along the way during the sport RC model build, outfit, and fly...will be used for the P61. This will include the good, as well as the not-so-good.

When you are ready to make a move, take whatever time necessary in choosing the Radio. The correct radio will possess the features required to control the P61. Then, naturally, this radio will for sure have the requirements to operate a simpler sport model also.

Good Luck!

RE: Kit Building
 

ruthiesea, you have already received some great ideas. Although this isn't a P-61, check out Tom Pierce's SBD Dauntless build [link=http://www.tompierce.net/SBD/index.htm]here.[/link] You will see what it takes to re-create a warbird in spectacular fashion. If you're like me, you'll read this and get energized to get to the point where you can build and fly something so awe inspiring.

This is a great read - but be warned, the ending is not pretty. Also, be prepared to spend a few hours on Tom's site.

-MA