oils ain't oils?
 

Gidday all, I'd like to mix my own fuel as I currently pay 9 aussie dollars a liter for pre mixed stuff here (5% n, 10%c, 10%s, 75%m). My question, is it necessary to use synthetic oil in the blend or could I just use all castor. I have an OS 46 FX that's well run in. I'm not after high performance so if that's the only benifit I could leave it out. However if it's crucial for engine life well I guess I'd need it. Please advise. Regards John.

oils ain't oils?
 

The engine will live longer with all castor than with all-synthetic, probably.
Not that all-synthetic is bad... a person who tunes their engine properly will get
just as long a life out of their engines on synthetic, if they never have lean runs,
and if they always use some sort of afterrun oil after each day's flying.
Castor is just more forgiving when it comes to storage, and lean runs, that's all.

Yes, you'll give up a few rpm's up top, and yes, castor makes the engines
look ugly over the years, with the brown stains... but there's definitely
nothing magical in synthetic oils that you really need for sport flying.

oils ain't oils?
 

Thanks for the info, my pocket appreciates this news.

oils ain't oils?
 

G'day John..castor is by far the best oil for our engines except it tends to carbon up a bit after quite some time. We're lucky here in Oz because we can get Castrol M, not that it's all that cheap, I think my last 5 litre can was about $80. But methanol is cheap and most Shell, BP or Ampol fuel depots have it in bulk or 20 litre drums. Shell has 3% acetone already added which can help with the idle if you don't use any nitro. The only fuel I use is straight 80/20 all castor and never had any kind of problem.

oils ain't oils?
 

Thanks Downunder, does the brew you use have the acetone in it? If the methanol I purchase has none in it, will the hardware shop variety be ok?

oils ain't oils?
 

I'm using a castor/synthetic mix. It's harder to clean off the plane, but careful attention to where the exhaust is positioned will help a lot in this regard.

Also, I've been using 16% oil, but I recently mixed a gallon of 30% nitro, 22% oil heli fuel with a gallon of Byron 15%. That gave me about 20% oil. I've noticed the following:

* Nice trail of smoke from the engine.
* Engine is much quieter
* Run times are slightly shorter, but not much

I'm thinking about sticking with higher oil content even though I never had any problems with less oil. I think the engine is happier and seeing that smoke trail makes me happy. :)

oils ain't oils?
 

Vintage as well as modern bushed engines do better on all Castor.

John

oils ain't oils?
 

John...I don't really bother with the acetone because I don't find any problems with the idle on any of my engines but hardware acetone would be fine. You only need 3% and one of the other benefits of it is it reduces the ability of methanol to suck water out of the air.

oils ain't oils?
 

Excelent input fella's. Downunder I think I'll go with the acetone considering I live in tropical North Queensland, lot's of humidity here. I worked the cost out to $3.60 a liter, much better then the $9 I've been paying.

oils ain't oils?
 

Here ya go.

20% castrol m or shell racing m oil.
5% nitromethane
75% methanol

should cost ya about 4-5 bucks a liter

oils ain't oils?
 

Well now you know that oils ain't oils Sol...remember the Castrol ads? :D

One think just occurred to me though. If you're using zero or very low nitro fuel then use a hot plug like an Enya #3, OS A3 or a Taipan Red. It's worth experimenting if you've got a tacho...the best plug is the one that gives the highest revs.

oils ain't oils?
 

"Yes Boss" :p

oils ain't oils?
 

Yep i should ahve mentioned i ru OS#3 in all my 2 stroke engines

Hey SOL ois aint oils

oils ain't oils?
 

Gidday again fellas, well I'm finally making my own fuel. A friend who no longer races sidecars gave me about 15 liters of BP meth (good mate aye). I purchased 5 liters of Castrol M for $66 and a 500 ml can of acetone for $ 6.90. I mix it to Downunder's recipe of 20% castor, 3% acetone and the remainder methanol (Downunder, does BP meth have acetone in it?) It might be just in me head but I reckon my engine runs and sounds better. I have another question now. What's the difference in the manufacturing process of methanol and ethanol? Thanks men for your great help so far. Regards, John.

oils ain't oils?
 

JF most of your questions have already been answered, but a couple of points need clarifying.

Methanols

Shell offer straight Methanol and a product called Shell A Racing Fuel which is also essentially methanol. I used the latter for years until they decided to price it absurdly. The straight methanol is aviation grade as they supply the airlines who still require methanol for a water meth injection mix. Shell A is essentially 96% methanol with 3% acetone and a purple dye added. The acetone doesn't alter methanol's hygroscopic property. It is there to accelerate flame combustion speed and reduce the tendency for pre-ignition with lean mixtures.

BP Methanol called BP Racing Fuel or some similar marketing euphemism is only 90% methanol according to BP's techical spec. sheet. God only knows what the other unspecified 10% content is now, although the drag racer rumour network mentions upper cylinder lubricants are now included in the BP brew. Note it is not marketed as "methanol". What's in a sausage?

Shell Aviation grade or Shell A is preferred unless you know you're getting unadulturated methanol.

Oils

Straight Castor (or Castrol M) is fine. In NQ you need protection against high temps and lean runs in summer. Castor will offer best protection against this, the downside being a dirtier model, more engine gumming and more rapid internal carbonisation. At $66 for 5 litres, that's pretty expensive for Castrol M. Shop around. You can buy Klotz or CoolPower when they're on promo (regularly) for about the same per litre inc shipping.

Acetone

You don't need to use it, but 2 or 3% does tend to make an engine run observably better, especially in hot humid climes where air density is typically low. Most 'home brewers' don't use it and few commercial model fuel mixes do either. Try without it as like nitro and synthetic oil, acetone is expensive and if you can get away without it all the better.

Nitro

The 46FX is designed for a nitro brew, and will run OK on 5% but best on between 10% & 20%. For sport flying, 5% is fine and will offer easier starting, a more stable idle and easier tuning. You really only need more if you want to swing a bigger diameter prop optimising vertical and engine performance in competition.

Given the price of Castrol M these days, there's little economic benefit gained by using a castor blend over a pure synthetic brew. The FX is a new generation engine and doesn't require a high viscosity oil like castor. Synthetics are less tolerent of an excessively lean run being the downside, their cleanliness and superior lubrication properties when used correctly being the upside. The essential factor is to run sufficient oil no matter what your preferred 'poison'.

Either way mixing your own brew is the way to go from an economic viewpoint in this country. Just remember not to ignore basic health and safety guidelines when mixing. Methanol and nitro are pretty noxious (carcinogenic) and chronic dermal ingestion a serious issue.

Hope all the above assists. Cheers.

oils ain't oils?
 

Thanks for the extra info Sigrun, I'll keep all you said in mind next time I'm to purchase the ingredients for a homebrew.

oils ain't oils?
 

See if your local hobby shop can get the stuff required from pro glow in West Aus.
from my local hobby shop i pay $22 for a 20 litre of Meth, $30 for a 5 litre of castor, $25 for a litre of Nitro
i run OS#3 plugs i all my 2 strokes with a 20/10/70 fuel

heres the link to the suplier, they also make a good 5ch RX for about $75
http://www.lionelectronics.com

oils ain't oils?
 

Thanks for the info Woodsy, I will pass it on to my LHS, perhaps they might be interested. I'm sure it would'nt be worth me ordering fuel supplys from your LHS. The frieght charges from WA. to NQLD would surely counter any savings to be had. That RX appears to be a good buy though. Thanks again. Regards, John.

oils ain't oils?
 

For those of us here in the US, are these ingredients easily available to mix our own fuel? $15/gal. seems like overpriced hydrocarbons.

oils ain't oils?
 

John, these are prices i pay in Victoria but i'm not sure of the freight component, there is a list of dealers on the web site.

oils ain't oils?
 

Why not consider Lion Electrics "ProGLow Synthetic Mix?" (Lion are in Perth guys)

It's a Castor/Synthetic blend and when mixed at a ratio of 20% oil, (And whatever nitro/methanol mix you chose) actually gives a 15% Synthetic--5 % Castor ratio.

I switched to it when Castrol M prices shot up to what I considered to be an unreasonable level for 1st pressing Castor.

You get the best of both worlds as far as the high temp protection of Castor and the internal cleanliness of Synthetic, as well as the anti rust protection of the latter for the engine bearings.

I am also enjoying not having to teardown my 2 stroke engines for cleaning so often, especially my ringed 2 strokes which were forever getting gunked rings which would then freeze. (More time for flying and saving $ on new rings)

I haven't had any problems as far as overheating in summer goes and my engines are cleaner inside and out.

Even a couple of Fox engines I have (Fox recommend 22% Castor in their engines, 'cause they run hotter than most other 2 strokes)
run on blended synthetic without any trouble.

Your LHS should be able to get 5 litres in for you.

Oh, as for 4 strokes, don't even conside using Castor in a 4 stroke unless you want to spend most of your spare time reassembling valve gear and timing the whole works.

Castor, including the much vaunted Castrol M, really messes up the insides of 4 strokes and does so very quickly.

As for Methanol, any of the major oil companies Methanol is ok.

As a former Oil Refinery worker (20 plus years) for one of the majors, I can tell you none of them have a methanol production plant in Oz.

They all buy it in from elsewhere and repackage it under their own names.

oils ain't oils?
 

Why not consider Lion Electrics "ProGLow Synthetic Mix?" (Lion are in Perth guys)

As I recall Lion are the 'crew' that started importing that alternative first pressing castor to Castrol M about 6 or 7 years ago. However as you mention, they are in Perth which presents a problem of economic viability to those of us on the East Coast. Castor qualifies as a fuel, and as such ships as dangerous goods with disproportionate shipping costs in preferred 5 or 10 litre quantities. May as well buy Castrol M locally at its usurious pricing. If only running 3-5% castor, its current pricing presents a good case for eliminating castor altogether.

As for buying pre-mixed value added pre-blended McFuel , no thanks. Sadly the couple of conveniently located model shops on this side of the river now only offer overpriced pre-mixed brews, either their own or a zero handling value added pre-package targeted at the newbies and McFliers priced at top dollar.

I switched to it when Castrol M prices shot up

Having recently returned to R/C after a couple of years hiatus, I'm still in 'sticker shock' at Castrol M's current pricing. Mind you, to place it in perspective, Shell's Methanol has risen from AUD$27 to AUD$45 per 20 litre drum in 3 years, and Shell A even worse. It used to be comparable with a refill from your local club's 220, with the couple of dollars difference worthwhile the difference for the convenience. Not so now.

Oh, as for 4 strokes, don't even conside using Castor in a 4 stroke unless you want to spend most of your spare time reassembling valve gear and timing the whole works.

I personally know a fellow who runs his OS 52S exclusively on a 4:1 castor brew, or did so last we spoke when it was half the price of synthetic. He flies 5 days a week and that engine gets an average 2hrs running (training) at low to medium power settings each day. Runs flawlessly. However, his engine does get stripped regularly for a decoking, and inarguably would require less frequent stripping were straight synthetic used. There's a lot of mythology bandied about being my point. There's less devil in the actual detail.

As a former Oil Refinery worker (20 plus years) for one of the majors, I can tell you none of them have a methanol production plant in Oz. They all buy it in from elsewhere and repackage it under their own names.

No disrespect intended woody, but I think you need to bring yourself up to date. Since Oklahoma and 9/11, the rules on methanol have changed. As it is a component in explosives, like nitromethane the purity of product available to the public has since been altered. In conjunction with an increase in price of not only aviation grade methanol in the past couple of years (then check out Shell A and let your jaw hit the floor) , the same marketing and value adding mechanisms appear to have been recently applied to methanol product from alternative distributors to the retail market. eg: BP. Go and search their website and read their technical spec sheet on the only methanol product they offer retail in a 20 litre drum. They won't/don't tell us what the other 10% constituent now is. Can you?

Sourcing fuel components locally in convenient quantities is becoming increasingly difficult and expensive, but its still a lot more economically viable than paying throught the nose for 'pre-blended' if flying any sort of significant hours per annum.

oils ain't oils?
 

Have a look at my post #17 of this thread re lion and VICTORIAN pricing

oils ain't oils?
 

Yer, saw it and noted it at the time of initial reading. That's a good local price for methanol you're getting, and a stunner for castor. As mentioned previously, both of the surviving LHS are only flogging (the term most apt) pre-blended fuel. Last enquiry I made for supply of castor or methanol from either LHS was met with 'sincere' disinterest.

An hours drive away on the other side of the river, I can pick up methanol (BYO 20 litre drum) for $29-. Local club source is of course another abeit less convenient if favourably economic alternative. Not enamoured with quality control of the exchange drum 'system' though. I have a preferable source of methanol, but availability of supply is more erratic. Club sourced nitro is priced slightly better locally. Haven't bothered chasing down an alternative castor to castrol M, as I use a predominently synthetic brew these days and have enough Castrol M and Lion castor left to do me for quite some time at my current 3% volumetric mix.

oils ain't oils?
 

all synthetic is good for 4 strokes becaue of the reduced heat, but synthetic oils have a habbit of decomposing at high tempuratures. for a 46 fx, you want either a mix of the two, or pure castor. the problem with pure castor is you will find that after time, there will be a soft varnish building up on the top of your piston. a lot of rc enthusiests consider caster oil a nuissance because that soft varnish needs to be removed from time to time. i would use a blend of the two if i were you.