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JDMjdawg 02-06-2008 02:31 PM

Newbie here...need some help please
 
Alrighty, this is my first post on rcuniverse, hello all :D

So here's my situation. I have an old Futaba FP-T4NBF radio and receiver with a couple servos that came out of a plane me and my dad had built about 14 years ago.
I wanted to slowly get into flying without breaking the bank....I'm thinking about getting a GWS SlowStick or maybe something else someone can recommend.
I want to use the old Futaba FP-T4NBF for this setup and I'm assuming that the servos and receiver I have are too big and heavy for the SlowStick...is that possible or is the radio just too old to be compatible with newer and smaller receivers? I've done a little research and it looks like its possible to use the Futaba, just want to confirm. Also, is it worth buying a flight pack that includes the ESC, receiver, and servos or should I piece the flight pack together myself? Reason I ask is that I want to make sure I buy quality components, and I had also read that some of the parts that come with these flight packs arent all that great, such as the battery back weighing too much and the ESC being too low amperage. I hear that you can use a few different size servos with the SlowStick, I want to make sure I get servos that are compatible with other planes as well. Are these tiny receivers and servos only good for using in small airplanes or can I eventually swap them into something a little bigger than the SlowStick? Thanks for any light you guys can shed on this ;)

mclina 02-06-2008 02:50 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 
I can't answer all of your questions, but I'll try to answer some of them.

First, you are right that the full size Futaba servos and RX are too big for a Slow Stick. My slow stick uses the following components, and has the 400 size motor:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXHHA8&P=7

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXKBF3&P=7

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXHHR7&P=ML

And I use a 7 cell, 8.4 volt NiMh pack, like this, only cheaper:

http://secure.hobbyzone.com/catalog/...s/HBZ1013.html

I use the same TX as my glow planes, but none of these components would be suitable for a glow plane.


Edit: And I must say that outfitting a Slow Stick from scratch in this fashion will end up costing a bit more money than the flying experience may warrant. I happened to have the parts lying around from other planes, so it was worth it for me.

If you really want to get into the hobby in the most economical way possible, look for a RTF glow trainer package, like the one Bigedmustafa always recommends:

http://www.thundertiger4u.com/tiger-...o-p-13286.html

You could end up spending $150 putting together a Slow Stick, or just spend the $250 for the full experience.

Good luck.

Missileman 02-06-2008 03:02 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 
I will hit around.
You can use a Hitec Flight pack with your Slow Stick,
This flight pack only includes the receiver (compatable with Futaba) and 3 servos. You will need to purchase the ESC and Batteries seperately.(you will also need to buy a crystal to match your transmitters channel)
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXKYK5&P=7
These componants can be used in other "park Flyer" airplanes in the future, they are not suitable for larger electric or nitro models.

JDMjdawg 02-06-2008 04:14 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 
Thanks for all the wisdom guys, I have a better idea now of which route I take.
$250 isn't a bad deal at all to get into a gas plane, I never knew it could be that cheap...
I guess I'll try to pick up a 10A ESC and probably that HiTec Flight Package for now.
1 more quick question...Can't I just use the crystal that is in my current Futaba receiver on the
new smaller receiver? I noticed that the Futaba receiver has a small crystal with sticker already attached.


Thanks!

bruce88123 02-06-2008 05:05 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 
NOT a good idea to mix brands as far as crystals are concerned. 1- they may not fit physically. 2-Even though marked for the same channel they may actually oscillate at a different frequency. Depends on other "internal" components. They're relatively cheap compared to crashing a plane that is "almost" right.

JDMjdawg 02-06-2008 05:30 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 
I'm a bit confused here...If I buy a mini receiver and want to use it with my Futaba radio, I can't simply use the existing crystals since they are already a matching pair?
Is the crystal that goes in the mini receiver a different size than the one that is currently in my Futaba receiver? I have no problems buying a new set of crystals, but I was just curious if I could just get away with swapping my Futaba crystal into the new receiver.

Thanks :D

RCKen 02-06-2008 05:45 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 
You need to use crystals that are made by the same manufacturer as your receiver. If you receiver is not a Futaba then you should not use Futaba crystals in the receiver. Regardless of what crystal is in the transmitter the one in the receiver must be made by the manufacturer of the receiver.

Ken

bruce88123 02-06-2008 05:56 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 
Some RX's are single conversion and some are dual conversion. Their crystals ALSO will not interchange.

Please buy a RX crystal designed for YOUR RX.

JDMjdawg 02-06-2008 06:19 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 
Got it, thanks guys! Looks like I'll be buying a new set of crystals for the RX and TX. Is there a certain range of crystals that will work in my RX? I believe the RX is a 72mhz...Also, no one has really told me whether or not my Futaba RX will even work will all of these new parts. I figure it should work seeing as how it only transmits a signal, not much can change I'm assuming. Reason I'm curious is because I was telling someone at my LHS about my radio and he said that it's probably illegal since RX's nowadays are different. Maybe he doesnt know what he's talking about since he was just the RailRoad specialist and didnt really have any answers to my questions.

Thanks guys

Missileman 02-06-2008 06:22 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 
Bruce neat me too it. The micro receivers used in park flyers are single conversion, most full size receivers are dual conversion.
That said you should use a Hitec crystal in a Hitec receiver even though you are using a Futaba transmitter and crystal.

RCKen 02-06-2008 06:31 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 


ORIGINAL: JDMjdawg

Got it, thanks guys! Looks like I'll be buying a new set of crystals for the RX and TX.
I'm not trying to be difficult here, but you can't change the transmitter cyrstals yourself. In the US it is illegal for the end user to change the cyrstals in their transmitter unless they are licensed and can verify the output of the radio after the change. If you want to change the transmitter cyrstal you need to send it in to an authorized service center.

Ken

mclina 02-06-2008 06:59 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 
You do not need to change the crystal in your transmitter. Just buy a crystal for your new receiver that is on the same channel. Make sure you buy a receiver that matches the shift (positive or negative) of your transmitter.

JDMjdawg 02-06-2008 08:15 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 


ORIGINAL: mclina

You do not need to change the crystal in your transmitter. Just buy a crystal for your new receiver that is on the same channel. Make sure you buy a receiver that matches the shift (positive or negative) of your transmitter.

Thats exactly what I thought I could do...by what others say though, it isn't true :eek:

RCKen 02-06-2008 08:26 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 
If you are interested in the full text of the regulations concerning this matter they can be found at:

[link=http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_04/47cfr95_04.html]FCC Title 47, Part 95 - Personal Radio Services[/link]

Copied from Futaba's website

How do I change the frequency of my transmitter?
For a unit with crystals: We CANNOT recommend changing crystals to a different frequency. Changing the crystal on your transmitter is illegal unless you have the proper license. The FCC has established guidelines for the modeler's safety and for the safety of spectators. For safety and FCC reasons we must request that both TX and RX be sent to the service center to ensure proper crystal change and retuning to the new frequency. Crystal based radios cannot be converted to another band without parts replacement, and may not be able to be converted at all. Certain radios can be converted, for example, from 72 to 75MHz. Please contact the service center for any other conversions.
The applicable Federal Regulation is as follows:
TITLE 47—TELECOMMUNICATION COMMISSION (CONTINUED)
PART 95—PERSONAL RADIO SERVICES

Subpart E—Technical Regulations
Sec. 95.645 Control accessibility.
(a) No control, switch or other type of adjustment which, when
manipulated, can result in a violation of the rules shall be accessible
from the transmitter operating panel or from exterior of the transmitter
enclosure.
(b) An R/C transmitter which incorporates plug-in frequency
determining modules which are changed by the user must be certificated
with the modules. Each module must contain all of the frequency
determining circuitry including the oscillator. Plug-in crystals are not
considered modules and must not be accessible to the user.

Copied from FCC regulations concerning this issue


[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 47, Volume 5]
[Revised as of October 1, 2004]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 47CFR95.221]
[Page 539]
TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION (CONTINUED)
PART 95_PERSONAL RADIO SERVICES--Table of Contents
Subpart C_Radio Control (R/C) Radio Service
Sec. 95.221 (R/C Rule 21) How do I have my R/C transmitter serviced?
(a) You may adjust an antenna to your R/C transmitter and you may make radio checks. (A radio check means a one-way transmission for a short time in order to test the transmitter.)
(b) You are responsible for the proper operation of the station at all times and are expected to provide for observations, servicing and maintenance as often as may be necessary to ensure proper operation. Each internal repair and each internal adjustment to an FCC certificated R/C transmitter (see R/C Rule 9) must be made in accord with the Technical Regulations (see subpart E). The internal repairs or internal adjustments should be performed by or under the immediate supervision and responsibility of a person certified as technically qualified to perform transmitter maintenance and repair duties in the private land mobile services and fixed services by an organization or committee representative of users in those services.
(c) Except as provided in paragraph
(d) of this section, each internal repair and each internal adjustment of an R/C transmitter in which signals are transmitted must be made using a nonradiating (``dummy'') antenna. (d) Brief test signals (signals not longer than one minute during any five minute period) using a radiating antenna may be transmitted in order to:
(1) Adjust a transmitter to an antenna;
(2) Detect or measure radiation of energy other than the intended signal; or
(3) Tune a receiver to your R/C transmitter.

(Secs. 4(i) and 303(r), Communications Act of 1934, as amended, 47 U.S.C. 154(i) and 303(r), and sec. 553 of the Administrative Procedures Act, 5 U.S.C. 553) [48 FR 24890, June 3, 1983, as amended at 49 FR 20673, May 16, 1984; 63 FR 36610, July 7, 1998]


[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 47, Volume 5]
[Revised as of October 1, 2004]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 47CFR95.222]
[Page 539-540]
TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION
CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS
COMMISSION (CONTINUED)
PART 95_PERSONAL RADIO SERVICES--Table of Contents
Subpart C_Radio Control (R/C) Radio Service
Sec. 95.222 (R/C Rule 22) May I make any changes to my R/C station transmitter?

(a) You must not make or have anyone else make an internal modification to your R/C transmitter.
(b) Internal modification does not include:
(1) Repair or servicing of an R/C station transmitter (see R/C Rule 21, Sec. 95.221); or
(2) Changing plug-in modules which were certificated as part of your R/C transmitter.
(c) You must not operate an R/C transmitter which has been modified by anyone in any way, including modification to operate on unauthorized frequencies or with illegal power. (See R/C Rules 9 and 10, Sec. Sec. 95.209 and 95.210.)
[48 FR 24894, June 3, 1983, as amended at 63 FR 36610, July 7, 1998]


[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 47, Volume 5]
[Revised as of October 1, 2004]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 47CFR95.645]
[Page 561]
TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION
CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS
COMMISSION (CONTINUED)
PART 95_PERSONAL RADIO SERVICES--Table of Contents
Subpart E_Technical Regulations
Sec. 95.645 Control accessibility.
(a) No control, switch or other type of adjustment which, when manipulated, can result in a violation of the rules shall be accessible
from the transmitter operating panel or from exterior of the transmitter enclosure.
(b) An R/C transmitter which incorporates plug-in frequency determining modules which are changed by the user must be certificated
with the modules. Each module must contain all of the frequency determining circuitry including the oscillator. Plug-in crystals are not
considered modules and must not be accessible to the user.
[53 FR 36789, Sept. 22, 1988. Redesignated at 61 FR 28769, June 6, 1996, and further redesignated at 61 FR 46567, Sept. 4, 1996; 63 FR 36610, July 7, 1998]

Missileman 02-06-2008 10:22 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 


ORIGINAL: JDMjdawg



ORIGINAL: mclina

You do not need to change the crystal in your transmitter. Just buy a crystal for your new receiver that is on the same channel. Make sure you buy a receiver that matches the shift (positive or negative) of your transmitter.

Thats exactly what I thought I could do...by what others say though, it isn't true :eek:
No one has said that here.
IF transmitter is a 72Mhz FM transmitter you are golden. Don't touch the transmitter (TX) you can even use your existing receiver (RX)in a larger plane.
IF you want a small park flyer like the slow stick you mentioned you will need a small receiver (micro receiver)
whatever receiver you get it has to be compatable with your Futaba transmitter that you want to use. Receivers are divided between positive and negative shift. Futaba uses Negative shift, so your new reciever has to be Negative shift OR shift selectable OR auto shift.
The Hitec receiver in the flight pack I posted earlier is an auto shift receiver. You need a Hitec single conversion crystle for the receiver ONLY that is the same channel as the crystal that is currently in your transmitter.
Bottom line. You will have your Futaba Transmitter with your old Futaba crystal and your new Hitec receiver with your new Hitec crystal and as long as they are the same channel it will work.

bruce88123 02-06-2008 11:11 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 


ORIGINAL: Missileman



ORIGINAL: JDMjdawg



ORIGINAL: mclina

You do not need to change the crystal in your transmitter. Just buy a crystal for your new receiver that is on the same channel. Make sure you buy a receiver that matches the shift (positive or negative) of your transmitter.

Thats exactly what I thought I could do...by what others say though, it isn't true :eek:
No one has said that here.
IF transmitter is a 72Mhz FM transmitter you are golden. Don't touch the transmitter (TX) you can even use your existing receiver (RX)in a larger plane.
IF you want a small park flyer like the slow stick you mentioned you will need a small receiver (micro receiver)
whatever receiver you get it has to be compatable with your Futaba transmitter that you want to use. Receivers are divided between positive and negative shift. Futaba uses Negative shift, so your new reciever has to be Negative shift OR shift selectable OR auto shift.
The Hitec receiver in the flight pack I posted earlier is an auto shift receiver. You need a Hitec single conversion crystle for the receiver ONLY that is the same channel as the crystal that is currently in your transmitter.
Bottom line. You will have your Futaba Transmitter with your old Futaba crystal and your new Hitec receiver with your new Hitec crystal and as long as they are the same channel it will work.
mclina- your last post was the only one where YOU or ANYONE mentioned changing TX crystals. RCKen and Missileman are exactly correct.

JDMjdawg 02-07-2008 12:15 AM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 
Everything is "crystal" clear now...lol

Looks I just need to find a micro receiver that is Futaba compatible and then pair that up with my 72mhz Futaba TX and make sure to get the right channel crystal so everything is golden :D

Thanks for all the help fellas, it is much appreciated!

mclina 02-07-2008 06:48 AM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 



[/quote]
mclina- your last post was the only one where YOU or ANYONE mentioned changing TX crystals. RCKen and Missileman are exactly correct.
[/quote]


Huh? I wouldn't have mentioned it, except for the two posts directly above mine. The OP mentioned changing his TX crystal, and then Ken told him it was illegal. I was merely adding that, in addition to it being illegal, it was also unnecessary.

And of course Ken and Missleman are exactly correct. I've never seen them do otherwise ;).

And just to add one more thing that I hadn't seen mentioned. If the original poster is going to use his 14 year old Futaba TX and buy a compatible RX for it, he will want to buy a new battery pack for his Futaba. I doubt it is any good after 14 years.

bruce88123 02-07-2008 09:38 AM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 


ORIGINAL: mclina




mclina- your last post was the only one where YOU or ANYONE mentioned changing TX crystals. RCKen and Missileman are exactly correct.
[/quote]


Huh? I wouldn't have mentioned it, except for the two posts directly above mine. The OP mentioned changing his TX crystal, and then Ken told him it was illegal. I was merely adding that, in addition to it being illegal, it was also unnecessary.

And of course Ken and Missleman are exactly correct. I've never seen them do otherwise ;).

And just to add one more thing that I hadn't seen mentioned. If the original poster is going to use his 14 year old Futaba TX and buy a compatible RX for it, he will want to buy a new battery pack for his Futaba. I doubt it is any good after 14 years.
[/quote]
You're right, I directed my comment to the wrong person. Apologies:). Also agree the TX battreries are unlikely to be any good.

Missileman 02-07-2008 11:42 AM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 
I will third the transmitter battery, probably shot by now.

opjose 02-07-2008 12:08 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 
It is NOT illegal however if you have a TX that uses a transmission "module", which includes the crystal.

These are pre-tuned amps for the specific frequency and are user changable/swappable.

It's perfectly fine ( and legal ) to swap TX modules w/o violating any FCC rules.

Then there are the synth modules which permit you to change the frequency via a switch, etc.


bruce88123 02-07-2008 12:17 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 
That was covered above opjose and we were speaking to a guy with a Futaba FP-T4NBF in particular at this time. But always good to amplify a point.

JDMjdawg 02-07-2008 12:34 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 
got it...Do you guys think its worth buying a new battery, or should I look into buying a whole new radio?
If anyone can guide me in the right direction of building a battery pack, that would be great. I can solder, and heat shrink and all that good stuff. I looked on ebay and it seems a new battery pack is probably going to run me $30 =/

Missileman 02-07-2008 12:56 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 


ORIGINAL: JDMjdawg

got it...Do you guys think its worth buying a new battery, or should I look into buying a whole new radio?
If anyone can guide me in the right direction of building a battery pack, that would be great. I can solder, and heat shrink and all that good stuff. I looked on ebay and it seems a new battery pack is probably going to run me $30 =/
Not a bad idea to buy a new radio once you add up the cost of the flight pack and a new battery for your transmitter you can get a package deal for about the same price. The transmitter is almost free and your old transmitter will make a handy buddy box.
Look here:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LXNZB9**&P=7
And this transmitter will work with your old receiver and servos so you will be set when you want to move to a bigger plane (you will need a new crystal for your old receiver if it is a different channel, about $10)

bruce88123 02-07-2008 01:07 PM

RE: Newbie here...need some help please
 
You COULD make a point of ordering it already on the same channel if you wish.


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