Is left right or is right left!!!
 

Hi Everyone,
When the plane is coming toward you, how do you overcome that instinctive reaction of turning the wrong way? I've been mentally fighting this for a some time now. and seriously thinking of a flight sim to help. I was almost a G2 man, now swaying towards Aerofly Pro. Either one I'm sure would help my dyslectic behavior at the field.
Thanks guys
Al

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

an instructor should really help you at your flying field to master this 101 basic rule!

My tip on how to fight this is: focus on the wings and always move the aileron radio stick in the direction in which the wing-tip drops.

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

A sim will sure help a lot but at the field a little trick when flying to you I used to sortof turn around or sort of sidways and look at the plane over your shoulder and it comes natural.

Dauntae

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

get an RC car and practice up and down the road, i also try and fly from sitting in the plane, it may sound a bit Zen but i try and fly the plane from the plane perspective, sort of BE the plane.

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

aileron to the low wing when the plane is coming toward you. practice by facing with the plane and looking over your shoulder then your controls will be right but if that is not possible for whatever reason then aileron to the low wing .

Highlander

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

A very simple learning device that works every time with out a lot of thought. Just always try to prop up the low wing with the stick.

John :)

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

I teach (and sometimes even use) the "look over the shoulder" technique.

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

I use a combination of Woodsy and MinnFlyer. Even turning 45º makes a huge difference in getting the mind and thumbs together. I also try to become the plane. It does sound a little farsical, but it's true. A fellow named Byron Furgeson wrote a book on instinctive archery shooting called "Become the Arrow" and a lot of the same principles apply to RC flight. You should be flying a little ahead of your plane anyway, anticipating instead of reacting.

Above all else: practice, practice, practice.

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

Thanks gents,once we get some decent flying weather around here I'll try your recommendations.
Cheers Al

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

My favorite method is to turn your body and point the antenna in the direction you want the plane to fly. It's kinda like turning around and looking over your shoulder but you don't have to turn as far.

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

I think this is one of the best things a simulator can help you with, even if its the Free version of FMS. You might look into one...


When it's coming towards you, you move the stick towards the wing you want to raise. If your flying and the airplane is banking left, with the left wing down... (facing the airplane) you move the stick towards the wing that is down or right.

Nothing beats practice and before long you won't even have to think about it... it'll come as natural as wanting to give that guy the middle finger after he cuts you off on the interstate. :D

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

You guys have been a great help, thanks alot.
I really appreciate your support and the sharing of your ideas in all areas of this great hobby.
I better stop before I start to cry!!!
Cheers Al

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

"stick to the low wing" will become automatic

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

It really does come with a little practice. I used the "stick under the low wing" method to learn. I asked an experienced pilot once how it could ever become automatic. He asked me if I could drive my car with my hand on the bottom of the steering wheel. Of course I could, what a silly question. He pointed out that if your hand is on the bottom of the steering wheel, to turn right you have to move your hand to the left. We all do it everyday without thinking about it. Pretty soon, flying a plane becomes just as automatic. I promise!

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

Sorry, double post.

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

OOPS! Server was timing out on me, so I reposted a couple times. Third time was the charm, but they were all there!

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

I tend not to practice turning your back on the plane unless you just can't get the thing. It builds bad habbits. If you do that, don't do it long. Learn that when it is coming at you, move the stick to the low wing. It will be better in the long run for you. I had one guy that insisted on turning his back on the plane, and he never stopped.

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

As with any issue, there are many 'solutions'

I prefer to mentally place myself in the cockpit, this is the end result of the looking over the shoulder, pointing antenna technique MinnFLyer and others are aluding to.... eventually you lose the need to physically move.

IMHO, the 'prop the low wing' is a shortcut to a bad habit that you will have to overcome as your flying progresses. Eventually you'll be flying rolling circles etc, where shortcuts will get you in trouble. For example, what shortcut will you use for rudder while inverted? Coming at you? Going away? The 'elevator works backwards; shortcut to inverted is another shortcut that will bite you someday. :rolleyes:

As always... JMHO, YMMV :cool:

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim_McIntyre [B] As with any issue, there are many 'solutions'
I prefer to mentally place myself in the cockpit, this is the end result of the looking over the shoulder, pointing antenna technique MinnFLyer and others are aluding to....
IMHO, the 'prop the low wing' is a shortcut to a bad habit that you will have to overcome as your flying progresses. Will bite you someday. :rolleyes:


Indeed Jim, I to agree that virtually all learning devices can and will lead to 'bad habits' and will do just that if taken out of context to advanced manuvers such as the rolling circle you mention which is a manuver that my tired thumbs still do but also teach not only in aerobatic aircraft but trainers as well. However since this is the beginners forum and the context is the first few flights Learning devices are in fact a good thing. Both the back to the airplane as well as the stick to the low side or prop up the low side with the stick (this one does seem the simplest one to grasp for the intial flights) are far more effective than the rather vague and subjective 'visualize yourself in the cockpit'. The visualize thing is actually where all methods do arrive at however the initial 'devices' do arrive there just a bit sooner.

Learning devices have been very successfully used in all of aviation including full scale since the begining and indeed may not work when taken out of context.

All of the above is entirely 'just my opinion' of course.


John
Don,t forget now----Righty tighty*lefty loosey

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

I know this is somewhat off topic, and asked a million times before, but is what is the best bang for your buck, G2 or Aerofly?
Especially for someone like me just learning to fly.

Al

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

It's tough to think back that long ago but I haft to agree with all who use the method of moving the stick toward the down wing tip. This above all others help me during my first flights

:)

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

I'm a relative newbie too, and was told to push the low wing up with the right stick as well. That was usefull for about 8 flights, and then almost in an instant, I didn't have to think about which way to move the sticks. I don't know how to 'splain it, but the brain has a remarkable way of making some tasks instinctive if you practice enough. My instructor actually would start up a conversation about something totally out of left field while we were buddy-boxing. He said he was trying to get me to stop thinking about flying so that I could fly.

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

Stick towards the drooping wing

also:-

Keep moving the stick a little and watch what the plane does. That is, make it twitch very slightly. Then, when you need to make an adjustment, when, say, landing, it won't come as a surprise which way to move the stick.

Does that make any sense the way I wrote it?

Incidentally that method also works great if you are reversing a trailer hitched to a car, or an articulated truck.

David C.

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

Different philosophies... Having been taught many "learning devices" (especially for guitar) ... I wish I hadn't. :(

I've taught/teach many subjects (swimming, guitar, electronics, software design, flying), I comprehend that people learn in differnt ways and have different goals. I've developed the philosophy that the correct method is always preferrable to short cuts. It may take a little longer but, later progress is not hampered by the much more cumbersome 'un-learning' process, particularly where 'motor skills' are involved.

Not trying to be argumentative here, I just feel that students ought to be well informed of the true cost of short cuts so they can make their own decision.

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim_McIntyre
Different philosophies... Having been taught many "learning devices" (especially for guitar) ... I wish I hadn't. :(

I've taught/teach many subjects (swimming, guitar, electronics, software design, flying), I comprehend that people learn in differnt ways and have different goals. I've developed the philosophy that the correct method is always preferrable to short cuts. It may take a little longer but, later progress is not hampered by the much more cumbersome 'un-learning' process, particularly where 'motor skills' are involved.

Not trying to be argumentative here, I just feel that students ought to be well informed of the true cost of short cuts so they can make their own decision. [/QUOTE

I absolutely agree, which is why I reckon 'looking over your shoulder' to fly a model towards you might work, but is teaching the wrong thing and putting off the inevitable time when the orientation has got to be learned, and embedded in the reflexes.

Being a guitarist you will recognize 'finger memory', I'm sure.

When I try to form chord quickly without a guitar in my hands I find it difficult, (because I am thinking about it, I suppose) but when my fingers are on the guitar neck it happens without me thinking. (sometimes!!).

This reflex can only be learned with practice. The only way, in the end, to stop a model plummeting uncontrollably is to have corrected an undesirable movement (say, when a snap occurs without meaning to) before you realize it has happened.

The good news is that a simulator like G2 does teach the right things and is very effective at implanting these reflexes.

My 2c (p) worth!

David C.

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

I'm not sure I agree. Looking over the shoulder is embedding the 'cockpit pov' very much like teaching guitar and having the student look over your shoulder to get the notes correct. I've taught this for years and my students (the ones that stuck with the hobby) all fly with feet firmly planted and very little body english (except when the pucker factor rises :D ). The guitar students eventually learn to overcome the need to look over my shoulder as well. :D

To extend the analogy I think of it more like looking down at the fretboard... eventually you don't have to, and you don't have to "un-learn" looking at it. :cool:

Playing the short cut 'flat-fingered' bar chords or stretching/sliding to avoid using the pinky is analogous to the 'prop low the wing' shortcut and takes much work to "un-learn". :o

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

When I was learning to fly, I pushed the stick in the direction of the drooping wing. After a while, it became second nature, and I did it automatically. Also, instead of looking over my shoulder, I would pivot one of my feet in the direction the plane was heading. For instance, if the plane was heading from left to right, I would pivot my right foot to the right. This gave me a point of reference without feeling like I was playing Twister. Actually I only remember doing this for landings. When I was "three mistakes high", I was more relaxed and gradually learned to correct input mistakes without worrying about crashing. I quess I quit pivoting my foot as my hand muscle memory developed.

But, the best thing I ever did was download the FMS flight sim. It really accelerated my comfort level with the controls. Not long after, I was doing split S's, cubans, hammerheads, inverted flight, etc. I'm not tearing up the skies, but I'm having a lot more fun.

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

I found the 'think you are the arrow' suggestion in this thread very interesting.

I'm going to try that next time I fly.

-David C.

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

I fly by getting my brain in the airplane. It's the only way to go, the other things are just ways to help you get to where you are flying brain-in. Personally, I learned with the "stick to the low wing" method, and I tend to prefer that to the over-the-sholder method when teaching, and as long as you eventually start thinking as if you are in the plane, it doesn't matter. Guys who still look over their sholder after flying a few years are the ones I watch out for :p

One advantage to getting the brain in the plane is that you don't have to see it all the time, and you loose orientation a lot less. I've had moments where I couldn't tell which way a plane was going visually, but since I KNOW what the plane is doing, and nothing strange happened, I know what the orientation is, even if my eyes can't fill in all the details, the brain knows the rest.

it also helps dramaticaly when things go wrong and you have to go for a save. People who have been flying long enough start to fly by reflex and "feel" and that only comes with getting the brain in the aircraft, even if they don't think of it that way. It's that instictive knowledge of what way is left and right and up and down, no matter what the plane is doing.

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

I suggest a simulator. After a few hours on it you should be fine. I have found when I make mistakes it is when I am thinking about it. The sim help me not think about it. I become one with the plane as I fly and fly on instinct.

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

Flightspoiler,

Where are you flying? If you're looking for a place to fly, come say Hi some weekend.

www.wcrcaf.com

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

CP140
I fly out at fry's corner Cloverdale.
I checked your posted web site. I have heard excellent things of your club. Neat to know people in this hobby can reside so close and not even knowing who they are.
Thanks for the invite, if I'm out your way I'll stop in and say hello.
Cheers Al

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

I agree wholeheartedly about the sims helping. I know they did it for me.

To help keep my sense of left and right straight, I painted teh wingtips of my trainer red and green, respectively. Now I don't think about left and right, if I want to turn to the red side, I know that's left and vice versa for green just like on a boat or full scale plane.

Use the most brilliant flourescent colors you can find and you'll always have a visual cue as to which wing is which.


Ed

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

"Prop up the low wing with the stick" is what helped me through this. I downloaded a freeware flight simulator (http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html), and used it with a gamepad. It is not good enough to really learn how to fly, but for practicing the orientation issue it was great.

To me, this was the hardest thing to learn bar none. My advice is NOT to turn sideways, etc. Learn to deal with this so that it becomes instinctive. Contorting your body, which I tried, just added another thing to do. When the plane's on the other side of the field, in some trouble perhaps, and maybe even in some bad light, you need to be able to just "fly" the plane. I have a friend who has to fly this way, and he ends up breaking the zero-line rule alot, and cannot fly a right-hand pattern to save his life.

It is very frustrating, and hard to get, but the good news is that one day (after weeks of trying) the switch seemed to flip and I "had it."

Good Luck.

Is left right or is right left!!!
 

Good advice thanks