Takeoffs
 

I just started in RC and I am way ahead of the other new guys at my club I can almost solo and I can land fine by myself. I always hear people saying landings are hard but I think they are easy my problem is takeoff. Every time I take off the plane goes up in the air and starts to wobble and tilt in different directions. It sometimes goes to the right or left right after it clears the ground do you guys have any tips? By the way the airplane is a Hobbico Superstar.

Takeoffs
 

First you have to learn the basics before you can learn fly. It's like a baby learning to walk you have to crawl first. It seems from what you are telling us is that your instructor didn't take much time in teaching you how to fly properly because if he did then you would know that you are just making a straight normal climb out.

There is really no big secret to taking off. You advance the throttle to get the model moving the advance the throttle smoothly until you have reached full power. By that time you probably have more than enough speed to take off so just add elevator pressure just enough to raise the nose. The plane will probably leap off the ground as you will have excessive ?Zoom Speed" Then just hold that little bit of elevator pressure until you reach a safe altitude before making your turn 75' - 100'.

Takeoffs
 

Yeah well I know how to fly I can even do loops and roll's and mix them together. And the only thing he told me to do is get straight on and the runway and give it full throttle. He didn't tell me to do it slowly or anything just give it full power thats all.

Takeoffs
 

Sounds like your climb outs are too steep for the speed and its almost stalling, try a long roll and feed in the elevator GENTLY just like a real plane.
your only getting away with the take offs because of the relativly high power to weight of a trainer and youve learnt a bad habit.

Takeoffs
 

I agree, that's a bad habit to get into.

Most trainers will actually take off on their own (from paved runways) if they are trimmed right. I always recommend trimming for level flight with 1/2 to 3/4 throttle (more throttle = climb, less throttle = descent).

Here's an interesting exercise to try. After trimming your plane for level flight with 1/2 to 3/4 throttle land and re-fuel. Now take-off without using the right stick (unless something goes wrong). Follow it up by flying a couple ovals using only the rudder to turn, and throttle to control altitude, then land, still without use of the right stick except when things go wrong. This is an excellent way to get used to using the rudder, since it is indispensible during landing when you're flying to slow for ailerons to work.

Takeoffs
 

Are you taking off too steep? If so your plane may want to act as a sail (grabbing all the wind) which would mean you're having to compensate more until you level out.

Another thing... I had someone "adjust my radio" prior to my taking solo control just to be on the safe side. The settings entered either didn't save properly or the person had (like me) no idea what they were doing. Prior to a "proper" dial-in my take-offs were white knuckle rides until I was 30' in the air.

Takeoffs
 

You've got good, solid advise from these knowledgeable guys. I'm going to say the same thing, but just a little differently.

We have a paved 400' runway. Even with a trainer, I take 300-350' of it to take off.

I take off at only a 15 degree angle...very shallow. As others have said, you may be hammering the elevator too quickly and you're close to stall when you're airborne.

Full power and gently, slightly pull back on the elevator. Maybe only 1/4-1/2" from it's resting position. After it is 1/2 to 3/4 down the runway. Don't apply elevator too soon!

One of the above posts said that a properly-trimmed trainer will take off by itself. And it will! Wait until the last 50' and if it hasn't taken-off, apply a little elevator. A little!

Patience, gentle, gradual, smooth are the words you want to learn for take-offs.

They'll become your favorites. Promise! :)

Takeoffs
 

I agree with the previous posts. Sounds like you're trying to get too high too soon.

Takeoffs
 

What's up MinnFlyer - no graphic? I thought you had a cute drawing for every occasion. :D

Takeoffs
 

As the 182 taxied out to take off, the Pilot asked Murphy if he'd like to do the take off. "Sure!" said Murphy grabbing the throttle and yoke. Now Murphy had never flown a full size plane, only RC models, and takeoffs to him meant blasting off full bore and going vertical!

By habit, and ignorance, Murphy shoved the 182's throttle to full causing it to rear up on its Mains, roar forward, veer left and run off the runway onto the grass! The pilot pulled the throttle keeping the 182 under control before anything serious occured.

Lining up on the runway again, the Pilot said to Murphy in a patient and calm voice, "Try it again, but this time come up slowly on the power and let the plane takeoff by itself." Doing as he was told, a subdued Murphy made a nice takeoff.

Sitting in an full size aircraft under "his" takeoff procedure was an eye opener for Murphy, and he never slammed a throttle to full on takeoff again. Fact is Murphy became known for the most realistic takeoffs in the club. True story.

Takeoffs
 

Sorry didn't mean to offend you. :disappoin

Lets look at what is happening when you take off.

If you juice the throttle then a whole bunch of things are going to happen all at ounce. Torque, P-Factor, the blast of the prop wind hitting the left side of the rudder ( this side of the pond) and several other things happen very quickly. Normally, the plane will want to turn left so you give it right rudder. It's natural to correct this and more than likely it will be over corrected and now the plane is heading to the right very fast. Most people panic and over correct with left and then your really getting into a bad situation. Next up elevator is attempted just to get the plane in the air and again probably over controlled. Now your more than likely flying very slow approaching a stall ( loss of heading elevator control going south and ailerons loosing effectiveness. BAD!

Try this:

First make sure the plane will roll straight down the runway. Next make sure that your steering will only allow you to turn in about a fifteen foot circle if smaller you have to much control on the nose wheel and you should adjust it.

OK, Taking off easy right!

Taxi out to the center of the runway and if possible stand behind the model ( slow day at the field or early before the troops show up) with the model on the center line add power until it starts to move. Right away you will see what direction the model is going to pull - left or right. Correct to stay on the center line holding the rudder input and gradually add full power. You should be able to see the model kind of bounce along the ground and that is when you add only enough elevator to raise the nose. I like to point the nose at the horizon or a landmark like a small hill to climb out. Continue using the rudder to maintain heading toward the point you have picked out as your takeoff reference.

You shouldn't have to make more than 2 corrections and if you have to make more then cut the throttle taxi back and start over again.

You can really impress your fellow club members with a natural takeoff such as this.

Above all play it safe and have fun.

Takeoffs
 

One thing I haven't seen anyone mention yet is that taking off directly into the wind is always smoother and easier than coping with a cross-wind.

Takeoffs
 

perjar,
That's a classic too much elevator, not enough airspeed take-off. It's amazing how many "experienced" guys do this every time they take off.

As it was very well said above, just let the plane roll a big longer and get going a bit faster, and don't pull up nearly as quickly and use a much more gradual climbout, and you'll be fine. It's a matter of fine adjustment, not radical changes to what you are doing.

I loved that story about the guy in the 182. Classic.

Even with my acrobatic planes, I like to go tearing down the runway, lift off real slow, so it's hard to tell just when the wheels leave the ground, then zoom down the runway about a foot up, slowly climb to a few feet. Then, once I've done that, I can pull vertical, or roll, or do a hard bank around the field or whatever show off things I want with out worrying about stalling. :) Makes you look good, but is really just being safe :)

Takeoffs
 

Yeah at my house I have a airplane a 2 seater not mine but Ive flown it. LOL I'm only 13 and he let me take off it went up slowly for a while then higher and higher. I even got to fly it in the air doing really sharp turns and he stalled it and taught me how to unstall it. It was really fun see I live on 200 acres and we have a really long and smooth grass runway. He also did a loop with the airplane. When we were lined up with the runway but still far away he shuts of the engine completely and lets it glide down really slowly. So ill try what you guys said let it get good speed and not put much elevator at all just a little to make the nose rise.

Takeoffs
 

The only thing I can mention is you can REALLY notice the differance on a tail dragger. The ROTATION they sometimes call it when the tail is off the ground and the front wheels are still on the ground is a transition phase on the take off and pulling up too quickly can lead to a crash quite quickly. If you learn to fly a tail dragger a little bit you will understand the importance of a goot roll out during take off.

Takeoffs
 

Yikes! Don't let the FAA know about that! :eek:

Takeoffs
 

Oh lol ok. Oops I didn't know they weren't supposed to do that.

Takeoffs
 

My best takeoffs are accomplished the following way:

Line airplane up down center of runway.

Close eyes will simultaneously advancing throttle to full;

Count to 3 and pull pack on the stick to rotate.

Open eyes...fly

Disclaimer
Not recommended if you are flying with other people in the area. Risk of personal injury may occur.

:-)

Takeoffs
 

Does't any one know what the left stick is for , Punch it and go won't work if you can not control the tail.

Takeoffs
 

I really don't think so as many instructors and students want an "instant gratification" of model control. The rudder plays only a small part of what there learning as you don't need a rudder to turn a model trainer. Most instructors don't teach it as they never learned to use the rudder. I have a student like this that I am getting ready to pass off. It seems that these people have a mind set that they can do anything if they are just allowed to take control and fly for a few minutes and can keep the model in the air just by boring holes in the sky. In my case the gentleman is 23 years old and gets paid to fly the model. No interest in why the model flies other than he is getting paid to fly it. It's really to bad as the guy has some talent and could be a top notch pilot in the program and if ventured out in the contest circuit, could really give some people a run for there money

Takeoffs
 

Perjar, I have the same plane as you, and I had (and occasionally have) the same problem. It is too much elevator as people have stated.

Woodsy, I defer to your expertise, but I can't see the "high power-to weight" ratio you mentioned. I fly off grass (sometimes cut short, usually not). The OS 40 LA barely has enough power. It takes so long to generate speed, that you must devote much attention to rudder control to keep the plane straight. By that time, you just want to get the thing off the grass and into the air, and so there is a tendency to yank back on the elevator.

I'm looking forward to my UltraStick 120 with Zenoah G23, so I can just go straight vertical if desired.

Takeoffs
 

there's a big diferance to yanking on the elevator at a take off speed barely above stall and yanking back when your well above fling speed.

i fly off grass as well (when were not in a 7 year drought) and when i first started i had a tendancy to pull on the elevator ASAP to get it in the air, this often ended in the plane sort of mushing it's way skyward with my instructor yelling "less elevator" in my ear. Now i have better ground handeling skills i love leaving it on the ground untill i get up a heap of speed (well fast for a 40FP) then yank back and go straight up, it makes the balsa a guys squirm when they think of the damage they would do if the engine cut out, with my SPAD DPS i'm not so worried

Takeoffs
 

Just jumping in with my two cents...

Generally, I teach my students to take off only after they have mastered landings. It sounds like the original poster is doing landings, that part is covered.

Takeoffs are all about attitude. You want to use the rudder to keep the plane lined up on the center of the runway, the ailerons to keep the wings level, and the elevator is used not to control *climb*, but to control *pitch*. You don't care about speed at all. As you slowly advance the throttle, you are trying to hold the nose about 15 degrees high. When the plane is ready, it will lift off.

I use a different technique for tricycle gears than I do for taildraggers. With a taildragger, I taxi with full up elevator. At the start of the takeoff roll, I neutralize the elevator and wait for the tail to come up. When the pitch reaches the desired attitude for climbing, use whatever input is necessary to maintain that pitch. For a tricycle gear, I start the takeoff roll with full up elevator (I fly on a grass field, and I like to "unload" the nose gear as soon as possible). As the nose starts to come up, I release the up elevator until it's steady at the desired pitch. In either case, the airplane will gently start flying once it's got sufficient airspeed. Remember, you want to *slowly* advance the throttle so that these things don't happen too fast.

This technique works with *any* airplane, and in any weather conditions. Remember what each control is doing: Rudder to track straight down the runway, aileron to keep wings level, elevator to control pitch. Your inputs to the sticks may vary with different cross winds, but the technique does not.

Forget about P-Factor, torque, spriralling airflow, etc. These are all real phemonon, but they're just an explanation for *why* something happens. When you are at the sticks, you should really care about *what* to do, not so much why to do it. It really doesn't matter if you have to add right rudder because of P-Factor or because the airplane is badly out of trim. You just need to develop an instinct for doing it.

I've never understood why people do the race-down-the-runway-and-then-rotate-when-you-think-you-have-enough-speed technique. The reason that you see full scale planes doing this, is that many full scale planes are multi engine, and if one of the engines quits, you need to have enough airspeed for the rudder to compensate for the resulting asymmetrical thrust. This just doesn't apply to the vast majority of model airplanes, and it gets people into trouble because you're just guessing at the things. If you just concern yourself with attitude, then the airplane will tell you when it's ready to fly.

Hmmm. I guess that was probably more than two cents...

-Wade

Takeoffs
 

Just a thought, but do you think he might be over stearing on the ground? Then when he gets airborn, he is still over using the rudder.

Takeoffs
 

Well....not exactly. Single engine aircraft and multi-engine aircraft both take of at approximately 1.3 times the stalling speed in the takeoff configuration. We do this because we don't want to stall in the event of an engine failure or wind shear.

The technique that you advocate is what is known as the soft field takeoff. Getting the nose off the ground and accelerating until liftoff. That technique calls for you to lower the nose immediately after the mains come off and accelerate in ground effect to the normal rotation speed, and then climb out.

Takeoffs
 

Hi mjd3,

Thanks for the clarification. I am not a full scale pilot, so I defer to your knowledge.

I grew up in a family of pilots. One of them is a very experienced, old-school, stick and rudder guy (with about 8,000+ hours of time instructing in everything from Stearmen to King Airs) taught me the above technique as something universal. Another of them - who it happens, was taught by the first - was a very experienced (35,000+ hours, mostly in commercial airliners), made sure that I understood the ramifications of losing an engine, on both single and multi engine planes.

As it turns out, I never pursued full scale flying (too busy with work), so I am not the one to listen to for full-scale flying advice. I have found that everything that they taught me applies amazingly well to R/C, though :)

-Wade

Takeoffs
 

--same principles, just smaller. ;) You might want to try the level off and acceleration during your soft field take-off technique because without it, you're climbing out just above stall speed. If the engine quits like that, the nose will drop before you can react. It could save your model in the event of engine failure during the climb, plus, it looks cool. :cool:

-Michael

Takeoffs
 

Yeah but my instructor never taught me to use the rudder and I never had enough room to pick up enough speed.

Takeoffs
 

Hi Perjar,

The rudder is a pretty important control. If you are not comfortable with it, that could be a big part of why takeoffs are hard. You'll also find that the rudder is essential to do landings in a stiff cross wind.

If you are still working with an instructor, I would highly recommend that you see if they will work with you on use of the rudder.

If you have progressed beyond working with an instructor, then I can make some suggestions for learning about the rudder.

*** Note that you should use caution whenever you try something new in the air. If you are not absolutely confident in your ability to recover and land the airplane from unusual attitudes, please don't go out and try any of this. Also, consider finding an experienced pilot to go out and buddy box with you and work on the skill of recovering from unusual attitudes. ***

Now, if you are comfortable flying your plane, then it would be a good idea to go out and play with the rudder. Always go at least 3 mistakes high or more when you try these things. At first, just move the rudder left and right. Don't be shy (you've got lots of altitude, right). Move it all the way to one side and then the other. Don't jerk it, just move it smoothly and somewhat slowly back and forth. Watch the plane. You should make to big observations: One, you'll notice that the rudder has far more authority than the ailerons for turning the airplane. Two, depending on your plane, you may notice that the nose drops far more abruptly than it does when you use the ailerons.

After you've wiggled the rudder a few times, you should try anticipating the nose drop and using just the right amount of elevator to prevent it. This takes some practice. When you get it right, the nose won't drop or pitch up when you feed in the rudder.

Once you've got that part down, you should try doing a turn using just the rudder - no ailerons. The first thing you may notice that the rudder works "correctly" for doing a turn. By that, I mean that you'll feed in rudder to start the turn, hold the rudder all through the turn, and release the rudder when you want to end the turn. This is quite different than what you do with ailerons. With an aileron-only turn, you probably feed in aileron to start the turn, and then release it most or all of the way through the turn, and then feed in opposite aileron when you want to stop turning. The other thing to notice here, depending on how your plane is set up, is that you'll only need a little bit of rudder to do the turn. If you crank the rudder all the way and then hold it, you might find out that the rudder overpowers the other controls. If this happens, the wing on the inside of the turn might drop excessively and the elevator cannot hold the nose up. If this happens, the plane will spiral down. This is no big deal, since you're 3 mistakes high. Just release the rudder and fly out of it. (Note that, if this happens with a trainer, it is very likely not a spin - most trainers I've flown really don't like to spin, and you need to use power at just the right time to "kick" them into a spin).

With a little bit of practice, you should be able to fly circuits around the field just fine using only rudder and elevator. Once you're comfortable with that, it's time to bring ailerons back into the equation. Try using both rudder and elevator to enter the turn. You will find that the plane is *very* responsive. As you are doing this, remember that you want to use rudder to control the rate of the turn, and ailerons to control the bank. You may also find that using a bit of aileron to level the wings when you are done turning makes things look nice and crisp. When you get this right, you will doing "coordinated turns" (when you use just ailerons, you are "slipping" through the turn, and when you use just rudder, you are probably "skidding" through the turns. If you could ride in your airplane, you would find that both rudder-only and just aileron-only turns are pretty uncomfortable to passengers. It takes both controls together to turn properly.)

Finally, once you've gotten the hang of coordinated turns, I would strongly recommend that you learn slow flight. By slow flight, I mean *really* slow. With a nice breeze, you should be able to turn into the wind and match its speed and just float in one spot (I call it "kite flying" because the airplane looks just like a kite with no string when you do this.)

To learn slow flying, get even higher than 3 mistakes. Fly straight and level for a bit and then reduce the power to idle. After reducing power, use the elevator to maintain alitiude. Be very gentle on the stick. You don't want to pitch up and climb; you want to gently feed in just enough elevator to maintain altitude. As the airplane slows down, you will find that you are slowly pulling the elevator further and further back, and the airplane is getting slower and slower.

Eventually, one of two things will happen. Either you'll run out of elevator, or the plane will stall. Niether of these conditions is a big deal (your more than 3 mistakes high, right?) In either case, if you keep the nose straight with the rudder, the plane will start floating down slowly.

*** Ok, I have a caveat here...I'm talking about a trainer. If you try this with a highly wing loaded plane, like a warbird, it could come down in a hurry and if you aren't right on with the rudder, it could spin. If you believe that you've entered a spin, apply rudder opposite the direction of rotation and release the elevator. When the rotation stops keep the nose down until you've picked up a fair bit of airspeed, and then return to straight and level flight. This is just a caveat here - I don't want to panic you. I've *never* seen an R/C trainer enter a spin from this exercise. ***

Ok, back to slowly floating down... While the airplane is floating down, try moving the ailerons side to side. You'll probably see that they have very little effect. You may even see, depending on how the wing might be stalled, that the wing banks opposite of the direction you moved the stick. Now try the rudder. You should find that the rudder still has considerable authority, and never moves opposite the direction you expect. Before the airplane gets too low, you should recover it. To do this, just release the elevator (which you've had all the way back while the plane is floating down) to drop the nose and add some power. (If the engine quit, drop the nose down enough to gain a good amount airspeed and then land.)

The final stop in mastering slow flight is to apply some power just when the plane begins to float down. The trick is to give it just enough so that the plane stops descending, but doesn't climb, and doesn't accelerate (if it does speed up, it's probably because you released some of the back pressure on the elevator stick.) With a bit of practice, you should be able fly all around the pattern right on the edge of a stall - probably a not much more than a jogging pace. Remember that this is *slow flight*, not 3D, so we're talking about a small amount of power. You definitely want to fly "on the wing", and not "on the engine." Practice up high, and do all of the things that your instructor taught you do to at cruising speed. You should be able to do left and right turns, descending turns (I discourage climbing turns on the edge of a stall unless you are high enough to recover from an accidental spiral or spin), 360 degree turns, and figure eights.

Once you've mastered slow flight, and know how the airplane responds "on the edge", you should find that your landings improve dramatically. Part of this is that you'll have more confidence, and part of it is that - if you're like most new R/C pilots - you're probably landing too hot. Slowing things down really helps (especially if you have a short field, which it sounds like you do.)

If you get this far, I hope that this is helpful - or at least interesting reading. I've found over the years of doing this, that there are lots of "right" ways to do things, and that my suggestions are only one way. Even after teaching R/C flying for 8 years for our club, I find that I still learn new things myself almost every week.

Thanks,
-Wade

Takeoffs
 

WadeH, good idea, your suggestions about learning "slow flying." It a good confidence builder and also helps students learn more about his/her plane and get comfortable with it. Lots of them move to a more advanced plane too soon after learning to take off, fly around the pattern, do a few loops and land. I try to get them to stick with their planes a while longer, some do, some don't. If we can get them to observe the 3 Mistake High rule when they want to be "creative" then we've accomplished something at least.

You also mentioned "Parking It." I like flying in a good stiff breeze, but with an airplane I know well. It's a lot of fun to run through a series of aerobatics then swing around into the wind, chop the throttle, feed in up elevator and using all the controls keep it "parked." Sometimes it will backup, depending on the wind. It's a good exercise for hand and eye too! We used to call it "hovering" until 3D came along.

I once saw a (full size) Pitts pilot at an airshow, take off and go vertical. Then at about 500 feet he reduced throttle and hovered. We had a good stiff wind that day, and he rotated the Pitts putting the full wing area into the wind. When the wind hit all that surface it carried him hovering, back along over the runway. Just past Airshow Center, he went to full power climbing out to continued with the rest of his routine. It brought everyone to their feet! A fantastic and impressive effort. That is knowing your airplane. One of these days I'll duplicate his manuever, but at 3 Mistakes High!