My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

Hello,
haven’t been here for a while.

I’m tiered of loosing airplanes.

My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
How to get out of it or avoid it? something i do wrong.

Its happening during a tight turn or in a middle of straight flight influenced by winds, if im trying to correct it or give it direction it makes these sets of tight 15 feet in diameter loops and rolls.

im fighting to straighten it.
I did not intend these loops to happen. Its loosing air speed and the whole air frame is under stress, its heart stopping.
This is not fun.

Things I think contributed to this:
Wind gusts.
too much throw on control surfaces.
Big movements of the sticks.
upper end motors on airplanes.
Lack of experience.

I lost two airplanes this way, the last one was an ARF trainer i recovered with OS 46 AX,
there was a strong wind from the west, at our field its recommended not to fly when the wind is like this.
It was bad, the worst so far.
The wing was ok there, it was just too much poison ivy in the way to reach it.
It dove into the ground.
Sorry for the harsh picture.


When I ask an instructor at the field to take off, trim and land it, he doesn’t got into these loops but saying it’s a very good airplane with good flight characteristics.

i ordered a trainer with OS 46LA just to get flight time, yes lets blame it on the decision to fly that day against recommendations…

thanks
Alex

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

yes all of the able as you mentioned.

when flying into the wind..add more power and don't pull or make big stick movment.
The model will want to lift to begin with , but if you don't have enough power and increase the AOA
it'll stall the wing or go into a tip stall if you happen to be banking (what you term as tight manuvers)
and a gust of wind hits the model. You first instink is to pull..but that'll make it drop even faster.lol

Pretend you're driving on an enter state (freeway) when making lane changes or going around a turn.
You don't yank the steering wheel..the same as you're model.

You might be making you turns too tight without enough power or air speed.

To practice recoverying from a stall . i fly 3-4 mistake high. bascailly do a stall turn or a snap roll.
You will become more aware when the wing stops flying for a brift moment.
You allow the model to head towards the earth to gain air speed (not pull up) to generat lift for the wing
again. This happens brifely , but most important ,is to learn not to panic if the wing stalls for a moment.

Maybe get a Duraplane...something that will survive and won't break as easliy as wood to get you
to gain more experince or stick time. That's what trainers are suppost to be, a TOOL. A sturdy tool is what
some people neeed.

I got one after crashing 2-3 wood models at first :)
I crashed the duraplane at least 20times after that and it was still fly able

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

If your instructor took it up and said it was flying well and stable. Chances are it's your lack of experience that is the cause of the crash + thrown in wind.
I would get back to the trainer, get on the buddy system and start from scratch if I were you. So you don't lose another plane due to in-experience.

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

It sounds like you may be over controlling the airplane. This is a common, easy mistake to make. force yourself to make very gentle movement of the sticks. Also things like CG to far reward, too much control throw, etc. could be a problem. Winds will have an effect on the plane to be certain but it shouldn't be catastrophic unless you are flying in a tornado. Your damage picture looks pretty serious. To break the thing that bad, including the engine, I bet you were at full speed. Try flying at 1/2 throttle or so and give yourself more time to react.

I'd have the plane checked out by someone and have them give you some basic flight lessons. Sometimes, a few basic things can make a world of difference. This hobby can get a little frustrating but stick with it and it can be very fun.

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

oh sorry to not mentioning it, the one in the horror picture I did without instructor and against common sense, I insisted on flying that day.......
“what a trainer, I did it before”.

These kind of things like in the picture kicks me out of the hobby and don’t add confidence.

FlyX, n19htmare, im downgrading now my airplanes a bit.

Alex

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

Yes the crush picture was into concrete the wing detached while banking/maneuvering against the wind.
Its also bringing back only what has metal part for spare parts.

i also got a buddy box for next times not to risk my mid star 40 like this...

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

you mean to minimize throttle and let it fall to gain air speed?
most of the time i do recover from these manuevers, just most of the time....

Alex

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

If you're still running the 46ax, you'd be VERY surprised how much power it's got. Drop the throttle and let the plane fly slow and easy. Yeah, it's not gonna buzz and saw through the air but it will fly. A slow smooth flight will give you a lot time to make slight adjustments. Turning a corner in your car is a lot easier if you're driving slower. Somewhat of a same principle applies here. Cut back the throttle to where the plane is still flying (not stalling) and you can do slow smooth turns.

The way you described it, it seemed you were doing full throttle flying to fight the wind but remember when the plane is going WITH the wind at full throttle.... and you have maximum throws on your control surface, you can kiss that plane bye bye if you're a newbie. The plane will indeed be over stressed and can go out of control.

Take it slow, 46ax is a great engine that will fly nearly any 40 size plane at 1/2 or even 1/4 throttle.

Good luck on your next plane.

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

Thanks,
Oh sure the motor has power, it pulls what ever it attached to…
What I suspect is that over powering it within these loops doesn’t help.
I’ll go now on OS 46 LA for the same trainer, “well at least it was cheaper….”

Alex

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

The description of your "tight loops and circles" is called a spin. A spin is a stalled maneuver when one wing is stalled, either due to lack of air speed or a high angle of attack. When you enter a spin, any control surface input tends to deepen the stall, and make the spin worse. My guess is that its occurring because you are trying to fly slowly, and trying to hold the nose up with elevator, inducing the stall and subsequent spin.

The way to exit a spin is to let go of your sticks and push the throttle up. This will allow the nose to drop, and the plane will gain airspeed. Then gently apply up elevator and the plane will level out.

To avoid the spin, maintain your airspeed. Keep an eye out for the stall (normally causes a nose drop). If your starting a stall, LET GO OF THE ELEVATOR. This will allow the plane to drop the nose and regain airspeed.

I have students that either add the aileron too quickly or to far, and the plane will bank, and then dive into a roll. If you get into this situation and just try to hold up elevator, once again you risk entering a spin.

You're best bet is the buddy box. The instructor will be able to tell you exactly what's happening and why.

Brad

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

Thanks Brad, encoded that.
It doesn’t matter which direction the airplane is going in, just let go of the elevator with a full throttle and let it be leveled.
I’ll use 46 LA with 11x6 or 11x5 props.

Alex

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

I've crashed many models.
Sometimes it can be very fustrating, but don't give up.
That's why I recommended a duraplane. I was at that tipping piont once almost
giving up .

I've crashed a 4* 3 weeks in role...after making repairs.
So i stopped putting flame jobs on it...then the damn thing dosen't crash
However, i became a master at making repairs and my building skills are pretty good:)

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

Get an INSTRUCTOR and BUDDY BOX and DON"T FLY BY YOURSELF.

Cheers

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

I don't see this mentioned, so i will mention it. If you have a computer radio, set in some exponential. Start with 20% and go from there. That's negative expo, by the way. This will soften the controls for the small inputs and may help out. If you have a computer radio with a graphics display (like a Spektrum), then the screen should look something like the picture below.

CGr.

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

Although the plane may have some self leveling tendencies, you will have to use the elevator to bring the nose up. Just don't panic and pull full elevator. CG's advice about expo may help, depending on how much throw you have on the elevator and ailerons. Just get some airspeed before you add the elevator.

A good thing to practice for the new students is to get the plane up high and just let go of the sticks in different attitudes and see what happens. This can increase the students confidence in the plane to remain in the air. It also helps the students learn to evaluate the situation before putting in the wrong control input, and reduce the urge to panic to save the plane.

For a typical trainier, if its climbing and approaching a stall condition, letting go of the elevator should allow it to drop the nose, which will gain airspeed. Then you can pull it back to level if it doesn't do it on its own.

If its in a spin, releasing the controls should generally stop the spin. Adding throttle with the nose down condition should pull the plane out of the spin.

Never pull up elevator to prevent a stall (unless you happen to be inverted at the time).

The 11x5 is a good match for the 46LA. I've found the 11x6 tends to be overpropping an LA 46, but others might disagree.

Brad

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

Another thing to consider is; You need to adjust the trim as the fuel level changes or gets lower.
As you know the model gets more nibble as the CG moves back. Or the elevator becomes more sensitive.

Another tip that my instructor gave me was to trim slightly nose down for landing procedures.
And to also fly the model around a couple of times around before making attempting landing proceedures.
This way my brain can adjust to the slower speed. This will help to minimize over controling.

The samething happens when exiting the freeway on your automobile.

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

You might want to cut down on elevator throw a little bit, or use dual rates on the elevator until you get more experience. Sounds like you are overcontrolling the airplane, which every new pilot does.

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

Thanks Guys
Doing now what you suggested.
Reduced throw, 100% - high rate, 70% low rate, of what recommended in the manual.
And most important no panic, that’s what happen when you have 6 years gap in flying, you forget these things.

Thanks Brad coded that too.
Thanks CGr looking into this.

Alex

RE: My airplane gets into these tight on a dime uncontrolled maneuvers.
 

Futaba sets exponential with negative value. JR sets expo with positive.

Those values give the increased accuracy that comes from more precise control around neutral. And give the lessened sensitivity around neutral that make most airplanes easier to fly.