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RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
Rust in an engine is almost totally an RC related problem because it's vitually unknown in CL flying for two reasons. First, they (we :)) nearly all use castor, either straight or a blend. Second, the engine always runs out of fuel at full speed because it's the only way to land :D.
There's a lesson to be learned there somewhere. |
RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
Yep, run it dry, then keep trying to start with glow driver and starter until it is TOTALLY dead; the prop should spin as if the plane were sitting on your shelf for days, no extra help. I close my throttle to the idle position afterwards, and fill the carb with after run. Then I spin the prop which sucks in the oil, and turn the prop about 7 times to coat everything in there.
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RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
ORIGINAL: PipeMajor ORIGINAL: Rodney it is the nirto component in the fuel and oxygen that will do most of the corrosion problems so coat the bearings with after run oil to displace the nitro laden fuel residue. |
RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
Regarding getting gunk in your fuel that you then pump back into your fuel container when emptying your tank, I put a fuel filter between my muffler pressure fitting and my fuel tank. That way the gunk produced by the emissions doesn't get into the tank.
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RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
I just read an engine clinic article in one of the mags that suggested using as much as a teaspoon of afterun oil.
The same author also stated the claims made by synthetic blend fuel manufacturers that after run oil isn't needed when running thier product is over stated and optimum maintenance does include afterrun oil. After watching this debate for years, I realize there are many opinions and many claims. Ulitmately the consumer must decide wether the data from the afterrun oil company, the data from the synthetic blend company, or your own experience in the field is the most valid. With a fleet of airplanes to choose from, and an erratic schedule that might inadvertantly cause an engine to sit unrun for weeks or even months, I choose to error on the side of caution and follow the advise of the magazine article. However, someone with only one airplane, and with a schedule that virtually assures the engine will run again very soon , can certainly get by with a lower level of maintenance. I don't believe there is one absolute answer that is correct for everyone. In fact, in years past, I ran synthetic blends, flew almost daily, and never ran and engine dry or used afterrun oil. I had no problems. That same regiment, in my opinion, no longer fits my situation. |
RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
I've changed my thinking after having so many deadstick landings recently and thinking it contaminated re-pumped fuel could have been a contributor. I tend to fly short flights, and usually have a lot of fuel left in the tank at the end of the day and have been pumping it back to the jug afterwards. I still have my initial gallon of fuel so I haven't been flying that long but out of about ten solo flights, the majority of them have ended in deadstick landings after the engine quits. We've pulled the carb, cleaned the inside parts off, made adjustments to the low and high speed needles and changed the tank and all the fuel lines. None of that worked. Today, I had two flights without a deadstick after removing the baffle in the muffler and switching back to my old tank and lines plus adjusting the high speed needle so I'm running a little on the lean side. So far so good. I think the re-pumped fuel is adding moisture from the pressurized tank and that wasn't helping the problem.
My thinking now is to leave whatever fuel is left in the tank at the end of the day, and to just try and fly the airplane close to empty on the last flight of the day. Then, after disconnecting the fuel lines from the carb and muffler, run any remaining fuel in the engine out by starting the engine and running it until it dies. Last, afterwards, squirt some after run oil in the carb, and turn the engine over several times by hand to lubricate the engine thoroughly. That's going to be my routine from now on. |
RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
ORIGINAL: cappaj1 I've changed my thinking after having so many deadstick landings recently and thinking it contaminated re-pumped fuel could have been a contributor. I tend to fly short flights, and usually have a lot of fuel left in the tank at the end of the day and have been pumping it back to the jug afterwards. I still have my initial gallon of fuel so I haven't been flying that long but out of about ten solo flights, the majority of them have ended in deadstick landings after the engine quits. We've pulled the carb, cleaned the inside parts off, made adjustments to the low and high speed needles and changed the tank and all the fuel lines. None of that worked. Today, I had two flights without a deadstick after removing the baffle in the muffler and switching back to my old tank and lines plus adjusting the high speed needle so I'm running a little on the lean side. So far so good. I think the re-pumped fuel is adding moisture from the pressurized tank and that wasn't helping the problem. My thinking now is to leave whatever fuel is left in the tank at the end of the day, and to just try and fly the airplane close to empty on the last flight of the day. I have always pumped the remaining fuel back into the jug. I have not had any deadsticks (knock on wood). I also fly short flights. Does it quit when you are running, say half throttle or only when you idle back? Then, after disconnecting the fuel lines from the carb and muffler, run any remaining fuel in the engine out by starting the engine and running it until it dies. Last, afterwards, squirt some after run oil in the carb, and turn the engine over several times by hand to lubricate the engine thoroughly. That's going to be my routine from now on. |
RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
Hummm think I did the quote thing wrong. Look next to last paragraph on your quote for my reply
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RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
I'm not saying that's what caused the problem but I do think it was contributing. When I removed the baffle from the muffler I noticed alot of ugly looking blackish fuel inside. That stuff is getting back into the tank when I pump it out each time. It can't be good. Morgan Fuel states 'The carburetor is sucking in humid air and after combustion the moisture laden air is entering into your tank via the tube from your muffler.'
I'm just going to not pump it back from now on as a precautionary measure and to feel a little better. Probably not causing the problem but you never know.:) |
RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
ORIGINAL: cappaj1 ~SNIP~ Probably not causing the problem but you never know.:) I do however religeously use after run oil even though my fuel says I dont need to.. I suspect your dead sticks are caused by something else, tuning, air in the fuel line or other.. I had a stream of them, no more than 5. I had a veteran flier help me retune and they went away. |
RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
When does the motor quit?
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RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
when does the engine quit
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RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
I've pumped back fuel plenty of times and reused fuel as well. I've never put in After run oil, I did add some Castor to my Omega mix for some extra protection but have recently started using coolpower with no castor at all and I still don't add after run oil. But I fly every weekend and sometimes on weekdays.
I've never had a dead stick landing and i've run about 3 gallons through this engine. I was running rich, really rich on the Low speed needle side of things. Since I've adjust that, The engine found another life. The pickup from idle is excellent, I can let it idle for as long as I want and it picks up rpms right away when I increase throttle. I no longer have the varnish on my parts I used to get by running rich with castor fuel either.... Just tune it right, I get the feeling it's the tuning. |
RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
ORIGINAL: goirish when does the engine quit |
RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
That baffle may have caused some foaming with the extra pressure. Hope it stays running for you. 'Good luck
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RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
Thank you!
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RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
It shouldn't affect the cost. I'm not going to discard any un-used fuel, just keep it in the tank of the airplane between flights.
What I am saying is I'm not going to contaminate the new $20 plus dollar a gallon fuel with the gunk from the muffler anymore, just as a precautionary measure. It's just not worth taking the chance in my opinion. |
RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
While I doubt that moisture contaminated fuel from the plane's tank back to the bottle is actually causing your trouble (I fly in one of the most humid environments in North America, return my unused fuel and never deadstick), don't leave it in the plane's tank. That tank is vented and it will accumulate more moisture and you will have moisture related problems. Instead, consider keeping a second fuel jug on hand to pump it into, one that can be properly sealed. The fuel left in the tank can also cause corrosion of the brass fittings inside (ever notice that green residue that forms inside old tanks, near the clunk?). If I were you, and felt it necessary to segregate the used fuel, I'd carry a small pop bottle or something to keep the unused portion in between flying days. Coke bottles with their standard caps work quite well for storing fuel. Just rince'em out very well with either fuel or rubbing alcohol before first use to get the last vestiges of pop out.
J |
RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
I get the Heebeegeebee enough as it is transporting a 1/4 gallon of nitro in my trunk:)
Plus if you leave fuel in the tank, it'll leak through the muffuler from the variouse angle you'll handle the fuselage during transport and storage. well, if it makes it's way to the muffuler...the exhaust port is right thar.:) Just buy after run oil. it's only $2 and it'll last a while. |
RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
Are you allowing the overspill to exit the muffler. If so, what don't you take the pressure line off when you are filling and that way any fuel that is overflowed doesn't go through the muffler to get contaminated with the exhause residue. That is what I do. I have a pint jar that I soldered a brass fuel line on the lid and use that to catch the overflow. I then dump that back in the jug.
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RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
The fuel lines to my airplane are fairly easy to get to, so what I do is take the lines off of the carb and muffler and connect those lines together using a brass tube making it a closed system. I don't put old fuel back into the jug this way. Then I start my engine and run it dry. I don't put after run oil back in, but perhaps will start doing it now.
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RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
No, I just pump it back into the storage tank. There's a filter on my pump.
Yes I notice particle on the bottom of the jug sometimes. But the line of my pump dosn't reach that low anyway. I just pour it into a cup and let it settle. On some models i can connect the intake and muffuler line . On other models it's not that easy. I also replace or slice the line every so often becuase the tubbing expend and don't fit tightly around the barb from taking it off and on. |
RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
ORIGINAL: goirish Are you allowing the overspill to exit the muffler. If so, what don't you take the pressure line off when you are filling and that way any fuel that is overflowed doesn't go through the muffler to get contaminated with the exhause residue. That is what I do. I have a pint jar that I soldered a brass fuel line on the lid and use that to catch the overflow. I then dump that back in the jug. |
RE: Draining fuel and running the engine until it quits
Hi!
I have never in my 33 years flying pumped back fuel! Totally unnecessary!!! Over here in Europe many of us use 15% or less all synthetic oil like Motul "Micro" , Aerosynt 2 and 3 from Fuchs in Germany and many other oil companies and these oils contains rust inhibitors. As I'm responsible for our clubs 3 training airplanes, were we use 15% all synthetic oil and 5% nitro, I have never during the last 5 years never seen any rust in the engines what so ever. These engines are just fueled and flown and never do I pump back fuel after a flight. The planes are stored in a metal arms locker between flights and stands there,some for months between flights, and never any rust. Many times in the past when people ran Castor oil and hadn't used their engines for months or years the rust problem was severe in all engines, not to speak of the problem with Castor oil oxidizing, gumming up ball bearings. As I never use and "special" after run-oil. I do now and then oil in my engines using ATF oil or just the same all synthetic oil I mix in my fuel. And I pour it in! Don't be bashfull ! Pour in plenty of oil into the carb! A tea spoon is nothing! Synthetic glow fuel oil or ATF oil doesn't attack O-rings or silicon rings in the carb. |
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