How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

Hi everyone, just a quick rant about my own stupidity.

I decided to hang up my trusty 4 Star, sell my OS 52 4 stroke engine and buy an electric plane (seems to be what a lot of people are doing so there must be something to it!)
Well, a few phone calls convinced me that the start up costs were pretty steep especially if you went to the .40 sized planes I am used to flying. No problem - just go smaller.
I bought a Mini Ultra Stik (I love stiks), charger, Lipo batteries, eflite 480 motor, 40 amp speed control and the smaller servos I needed. Expensive but I was committed.

First lesson. These small planes don't like wind. Even the stik. Had to watch my club mates flying for a few days until it calmed down some.
Second lesson. Small planes are twitchy. Okay, no problem. A bit of expo and a few flights to get used to it and all is good. The MUS flies very well.

Now comes the sheer stupidity on my part. The aerial was really long for this plane so I wrapped it once around the landing gear and then out back to the tail skid. [:@] Worked until I was a little further out and then i lost signal. RIP my stik. These small, light planes sure fly into an awful lot of pieces when they hit the ground... No repairing it like I easily do with my kit built 4*.

Undaunted, I ordered a Mini Katana from PA. Wow. Great aircraft! Beautiful, high quality with lost of carbon fiber everywhere. Drew admiring glances from all at my club. I switched over my gear from the dead mini stik and with no wind had an awesome maiden. This plane flies like a dream. Inverted flight is so easy and she tracks really well. Until I did a nice, even, big loop and...

Some more sheer stupidity [:@] My battery wouldn't fit in with velcro stuck to it so I thought a velcro strap would hold it nice and tight. WRONG. Battery moved into the nose of the plane in the loop throwing my CG completely out of wack. Plane landed but nosed over and broke the engine mount and cowl.
I fixed the cowl and the mount with some CA and was back in business. Wrong again. The weakened mount failed in flight and I had to land the plane with the motor hanging out by the ESC cables. More damage to everything.
Sold my electric gear. Bought a Big Stik 40 with a noisy, messy, .46 up front and I am happy again.

Not bashing anything. All of this was due to my own stupidity! But I will wait until I can afford to power a bigger plane electrically before I give up my beloved glow engines.

Ray

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

I feel your pain, I stalled my E star when
it was flying away from me on the base leg.
With No muffler for an airspeed indicator, it
tip stalled and gave it's all. So now i'm setting
up a 40 size GP stik with a Saito 82. Hopefully
I will here this engine vs an electric motor.

Bob

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

You are going to love that combo Bob.
My old Big Stik was probably my favourite plane (that's why I have ordered another ;)) and I had a Saito 82 on my Showtime. That is one impressive engine.

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

If you really watch carefully you will see a high percentage of those experianced glow flyers who suddenly just up and decide to switch 100% to electric especially based in part to those evangelical electric types who untill everyone does exactly as they do will never be happy, at some point will be right back to their first love.

This is most certainly not a rant aginst electric and I have been flying some RC electrics as far back as the eighties and Electric free flight in the late fifties, have alway keep some on hand but to just abandon glow for someone who has flown glow for any length of time is nonsense. At least that is certainly the way it is with me.

The entire sport/hobby has a very wide range of venues and the real joy is in exploring everything possible. The sport/hobby seems to be populated to a greater degree with those who truly enjoy this exploration and not those with tunnel vision that cannot see beyond just one power source.



John

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

I recently bought a Parkzone T-28 Trojan for some after work park flying. I like the plane, but it is no replacement to glow. Basically, I bought it so I would not get out of practice because I do not have much time to get out to the field to fly my glow plane.

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

I did a combination of all of the above. I have glow, but there was so much electric hype going on that I had to see what it was all about. Nope, I didn't get rid of any of my glows. I just spent a lot on these new electrics.. just not worth it, in my opinion.

I have 5 or 6 electrics, all sitting in my back room. The last one I flew was my Little Something Extra glow-to-electric conversion. I had an expensive Brio (read.. had) and a few others.. one that after I put it together, I found that the way they economized on weight was the way they mounted the wings. Well, after I put it together and let it 'set' to cure the epoxy, I found that the wings are crooked and that's permanant. So, that's a wasted bunch of money.

I also have about 15 or so LiPo's of various sizes and cell count, a bunch of ESC's, motors, small servos, and none of them are doing anything but gathering dust.

The main reason is that I was totally disillusioned by the electric model flying. They don't last very long (in the air and if you happen to make a mistake) and lose power very quickly as the battery drains down. I found that when I flew some of the lighter ones, if the wind picked up, I played the game of trying to conserve battery power while fighting the wind, and the plane would go further and further away while trying to get it back. No enjoyment there, no lazy loops, no aileron rolls, nope.. just fighting a depleting battery as I try to fly it back against the wind. Even a light wind can be a pain in the butt. Where can you fly, outdoors, and not have wind?

I do like to fly my little 'Bug', mainly because it will fly just about anywhere, and because of it's construction, it bounces when it 'crashes' and I just pick it up and continue flying until, of course, the battery drains out, then I'm done for the day.

I really like to fly more than one or two flights a day, so I keep going back to my glow birds and enjoy them.

Again, not a bash against electrics, but I just feel that they are to expensive for what I got out of them, and just not worth the effort and gasoline used to go out to the flying field with them for one or two flights.

CGr.

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

Hi John,

I didn't decide to switch 100% electric, still kept my 4 star and my son flies a Kadet LT 25, but I had to sell my glow motor (from the 4 star) to be able to buy all the electric gizmos. It was a mistake as I still couldn't afford to buy the equipment of a size I would like. It was a mistake. Perhaps I will try electric again one day when my finance manager (read my wife!) allows it.
For now I am back to glow where I belong. Cheap, easy, reliable and fun.

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

I agree completely.
My short and expensive electric stint has disillusioned me.
It seems you either fly very small, fragile and wind sensitive aircraft or be prepared to shell out a lot of money for the privilege.

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00inz9ExfcM

Problem solved....



If you have about 1000 dollars! =(

I have my feet in both worlds and apreciate each form for different reasons. Put simply, it's nice to have a little 30oz bugger you feel comfortable screaming around a park with and it's also nice to fly something heavier at times.

My Hangar 9 .60 Texan just looks a lot better flying by than my 30oz Trojan getting knocked about by people breathing to hard. ;)

But they all have there place no doubt. If I had 1000 bones lying around, I'd probably sink it into something like that Stuka, which has to be electric lest you bury that beautiful sampled radial engine noise.

Dave

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

a sound system in a plane?!

thats awesome!

group buy so we can get the price down?

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

I don't know, maybe it's my good fortune, but I have one electric (it's a trainer and it's my first plane) and one glow (the second plane). If I set the two side by side along with all the support equipment for each, I have less initial investment into the electric than I do the glow, and the basic airframe of the electric cost me more! I guess considering that I upgraded to a better tx when I bought the glow, some of the cost increase could be contributed to that.

Since I just maidened the glow yesterday evening, I'm not sure just want kind of duration the glow will end up giving against the electric. I know it should be more flight time with the glow, but I'm getting 10 or 11 minutes out of the electric and most of the time I'm ready to come back to earh by then anyway. There wasn't but a puff of wind yesterday when I flew the glow, but my electric is about 6.5 pounds and it handles wind fairly well. Of course I'm not flying it in a 20 direct cross unless it blows up while I'm already in the air! I hate that! Also, the lower db level from the electric is welcome by the field's neighbors.

Long and short of it, at least in my opinion, is that I enjoy the electric and had a really good start with the glow. Call it diversity but I don't plan on getting away from either.

Anway, since I don't tell my wife what I spend on this, I've no worries!

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

So far, my electric experience has been completely positive. I have been a glow guy for many years but I bought my first electric ( 3D Hobby Shop 55" Extra) about 10 months ago and it's been a great, trouble free airplane. Since then, I've also added a CST Katana and a Sebart Angel 50 to the fleet, and love them as well. I've been paying for all of this by selling some my glow engines on Ebay and some of my glow planes at the LHS, so the transition has not been too painful. I'm not saying I will never fly glow again, but I do really like the electrics and a 2 meter pattern plane with electric power may be my next project.....But, I"ll need to sell a lot more stuff first......... RS

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

Well I'm taking the opposite course of action to those of you glow pilots that are trying out electrics. I started on an electric (Easy Star) and have been flying it for a bit over a year now. It's a great plane to fly but doesn't handle the wind very well. It is a great trainer though and it's an excellent carrier for onboard video.

That said, I have ordered the new Alpha 40 RTF from Horizon Hobbies which I hope will be here in early September. I belong to a new club that's less than 20 minutes from my door so access isn't a real problem. I'll still fly electrics and I'm about to maiden my first kit-built electric this Sunday, but I'm really looking forward to flying nitro. I want to get into larger planes 40, 60, etc. and the economics just don't work for electrics.

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

Good luck with the kit built maiden. I have built 2 kits (4 star and LT25) and maidening them is more harrowing than with an ARF!
You will enjoy your glow plane, my friend has an Alpha 40 and it is a great flying aircraft.
The size thing is also my problem with electric planes. I just cant afford to fly the size electric i would like.

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

Thanks. I actually did the maiden flight today. It went very well, better than expected. The COG was perfect and it flew without any trimming required! Right after I finished this kit I swore I would never build from a kit again, but now I'm thinking..........:)!

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

I have to agree. The electric conversion can be very, very costly. I do enjoy glow power over electric, but it is also nice to have a "trunk" plane that I can fly at lunch or on the way home without worrying about fuel, RX pack, etc. Looking for a cheap way to have an electric in the closet led to look for the best deals.

HobbyCity at www.hobbycity.com offers the best possible prices on batteries, ESCs, and motors than anywhere else. I use them to outfit my electric stuff. I recently bought a .15 equivalent electric motor for $29, and a 40A ESC for $11 from them and they have been flying my 44" profile through all the 3D moves. I have also bought outrunners that are equal to EFlite 370 and 400 motors for $8 each. An interesting note is that the no label 40A ESC I paid $10 for can be programmed with the ThunderTiger programming card. The two ESCs are very similar in size, but there is a $40 price difference.

Then again, I wouldn't trade my 4*40 (with .46AX) for anything.

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

Some of the cheapest and smallest ready to go sound systems start at around 250.00 dollars. Suitable for smaller electrics that you can keep close. That Stuka probably has the deluxe package, bigger amp, bigger speakers. So all that on top of a pretty heafty battery and motor. It's just not really realistic for the average flyer. What amazing eye and ear candy though eh?

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

You should try one of the SIG kits, especially the lazer cut ones. They go together so well it almost feels like cheating :D
I would also not get rid of my 4 star 40 with .46 for anything!

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

I fly electric powered gliders, but other than that all my other aircraft are glow/gas.

The reason is that my flying sessions tend to be quite intensive, on the average 8 flights for a typical evening session. With a glow or gas engine this is not a problem, it is only a question of flying, refuelling and flying again. In order to be able to fly in a similar manner with electrics I have found that I need 3 LiPo batteries and two chargers.

My aerobatic aircraft are about 80" wingspan (not very big by today's standards) and in order to power these I would need 10-12S, >5000 mAh batteries. Charging these batteries 5 times at the field (which is needed if I want to fly eight times) requires more than 75 Ah at 12V, which means that I have to bring an extra car battery to the field as a source of energy (I have an ordinary car, and do not consider a gas powered generator an option).

For me, what it adds up to is that glow/gas propulsion is a more practical and less expensive alternative to electric propulsion at least for the time being.

A question to those with a lot of electric propulsion experience: How many cycles do you get from your LiPo batteries? In theory a battery should be good for several hundred cycles, but my flying buddies seem to be very happy if their typical LiPo battery lasts for more than 100 cycles.

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

I also dabbled in electrics and didn't stick. All my electrics were "park flyers" that basically flew like paper airplanes, they were built so light that it made it too sensitive to wind. Flying my electrics was like piloting a stricken boat in a hurricane. In all fairness, the glow to electrics would probably be better so I'm headed in that direction but not until I can reduce my horde of glow planes and accessories! When I moved, it was 30% furniture, clothing and miscellaneous and 70% planes. I have a 200 sq.ft. space stacked 5ft high of planes. I'm newly married so the wife forbids me to maintain such a lavish hobby. Our compromise? 4 planes max. How will I live? :D

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

I have been keeping a log book on my electric and all three of the 4500mah 6s batteries now have 100 cycles on them. They are still going strong. A lot depends on your definition of worn out I guess. I'm a sport flyer and my batteries may be too tired for someone who competes in pattern. F3A competitors often compete with their newest batteries and use the old ones to practice with.
Also, I never fly to the point of low voltage cut off.

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

The learning process of flying electric becomes a factor, I'm sure. Learning, for instance, when to judge that the battery is about to go into that point of voltage cutoff and dealing with it at that point. I've not reached that point. I seem to fly them until they quit.. however, I'm still used to having the same power curve as my glows do, and having the same available power to the prop as the glows do, which just isn't going to happen with electrics. That's the learning part, especially if a person wants to stick with electric.

I have fun with them, however infrequent, mainly because I love flying my glows.

The pattern guys, at least the ones at our field, seem to spend an awful lot of money on battery and chargers for thier 2 meter pattern planes... they usually have the state-of-the-art equipment. Then again, at least one is sponsored by JR and Horizon, so you KNOW he gets the latest and the best.

CGr.

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

I enjoy the challenge that electrics bring. I have an E-flight Extra 260 that tracks like it's on rails in a 15mph wind and a Kyosho Illusion that is a freekin' rocket:D Sure electrics get tossed around from time to time in the wind but, that's one small con of going "budget" electric - most are very light weight. One thing I can say for certain about electrics that you can't do with glows - get in the air in less than 3 minutes and pack up in less then 3 minutes. Electrics are fantastic for the 'Road Warrior Pilot' who wants to get out, fly, and be back in a short amount of time (which we all have to do from time to time).

HOWEVER

Once I get above, say a .25, for size/power, I switch to glow. Electrics haven't proven enough to me yet above that size (that's just me and me alone). The only large electric I've seen that has rocked me has been the [link=http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=6163]Electra Jet[/link]. This thing is AWESOME! Now here's an area where I'll be willing to push some $$ out the door - Electric Ducted Fans. Don't like the quiet of the electric prop driven, but love the high scream of a EDF. And since I can't afford a $3200 jet engine (probably ever) a good compromise is the EDFs.

my 2 cents.

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

Great thread ! I've had very similar experiences. Smaller electrics and larger glow. They are both good for certain things. I was considering going bigger with electrics but think not. How i would miss that beautiful, intoxicating small of burned nitro fuel:D:D:D. I couldn't do without it.

What really cracks me up now are the rc magazines that do endless number of reviews for big electric arfs that use huge motors and batteries. They seem to be very non-chalant about the cost of such things to the average flier. We're talking thousands of dollars for one project (read $2000 to $4000). WOW. Who can afford to throw together several of these things likes its nothing?

I use electrics for convenience and glow when I want to fly alot and have fun at the club for a whole afternoon.

RE: How NOT to get started in electric planes.
 

The first big electric will cost you that much, the second, third, fourth, etc will be like adding another glow plane. You don't have to buy another power panel, fuel pump, field box, starter etc when you buy a second glow plane, do you? You also don't have to re-buy another set of batteries, chargers etc when you buy a second e-plane if you stick with the same size. Sometimes, you can even use multiple battery packs that work in small planes to run the big plane.