not a must starting with a trainer?
 

Hi folks... It was talked about in the previous thread but.. has any of you learned on a low wing plane? I just dont like the looks of trainers with those rubber bands around them..and it will cost money time and energy to just buy another later.. for example I like the goldberg tiger 2 ...is it possible to learn on that if you find someone who is willing to spend the time and with patience?
what do you think? :cool:

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

hell no, you dont HAVE to start with a trainer.
you might actuly learn faster on a low wing sport plane that has good manners, i just had a student go solo and he was using a President funfly all the way.
not a self stabling plane, but its stable and prectibale.
best bit is, you can move on to aerobatics sooner :)
things like Magics also can make good trainers, but teach bad use of throttle if you let it, you need sommit a bit heavier.
the Wot 4 is a good one if you can get one, too late now to check your location.

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

GOOOOD to see an optimistic view, thank you..I had seen too many conservatives and nay sayers.. I am not gonna try to take off or land for a first several times and by the time i finaly do I will have a good enough feeling of the controls and the plane.....it all comes to the individual anyways.... I would get bored with a trainer before the first week and I have seen guys flying trainers hundred times...

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

you wont get bored, you'll be too busy trying to fly it! :D
one thing in a recent thread, a guy was so used to his trainer, he couldnt land his next plane coz it was diffrent, at least this way you have a plane to learn on, learn aeros and you wont have to relearn how to land.
i didnt notice my student improve any slower than the kid i taught with a propper trainer, they both learn to fly their planes.
if you wanna talk real life, kids are taught in brand new cars now, hardly a trainer, they just learn how to drive it.

stick with something easy, nice big wing, no tapered wing stuff, no pattern ships, no scale, just a nice sport plane. if i had a US mag i'd tell you a short list.

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

I learned on the Sky Tiger, guess you would say it was the Tiger 1. The Tiger 2 or even better yet, the Tiger 60 would be great for a first model. I know I would have no problems teaching someone on it. Then once you get comfortable, power up, give it more controll throw, and have fun flying aerobatics.

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

i forgot to give the President Funflys details, its 36 size, a failry think low wing, large chord and span ( this means it flys slow and is forgiving ).
a high wing trainer will fly unaided failry stable, a low wing if not set straight will turn off to one side, or stay in the climb/dive it was lft in, this just means you have to FLY it more, which when starting might not be easy because of the concentration needed. once you get past these first stages the rest will come no slower than high wing training.
heres my student with his funfly, infact, they have a Hi boy trainer, but did better with this.

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

i'll tell you a wee story....

i first started RC flying with a 2Ch glider, i knew how planes flew, i just had to teach my thumbs. a friend sold me a beat up old President Hi-fly glider, i fitted a 1400mah pack from a RC buggy, 4 cell!! i crashed a few seconds after the throw coz i was too keen and 25mph and hi-flys don't mix. one day i got two hours solid, that solved my concentration problem.

then at our club display a glider designer came with all his wares, i'd fancied this sleek little glider for ages and went to buy, he said nooooo, you want this, showing my some rudder elevator polyhedral thing, YUCK! nononno i said i want this one, pointing to a 1m V-tail aerobatic fun glider, it scored 7 on his 1-8 scale of pilot skill :D
after a while he gave up trying to sell me his trainer, even the small one, but said if i MUST have this, then get the standard tail coz it wont tip stall so easy, well i agreeed and i got it.

in my haste i built it wrong, putting the PACKING! foam between the ribs making it a bit heavy, i also covered the fuz in SolarTex thinking it'd take the rough landing site better.
well, what luck, i did crash a few times, it was quick, even on low rates, but the foam wing was solid! and the SolarTex held the fuz together :D
this glider taught me how to fly, when i got better i turned the rates up and flew faster, i then sealed my hinge gaps and now i had a mad fun plane. i've since built a new wing, fitted mini servos to fly in light winds... umm 20mph is the lightest so far, 45 the most!
this glider has given me 7 years great service, i still enjoy flying it, im not bored, far from it, i LOVE! flying it.

So dont let the nay sayers hold you back, be well aware of a steeper learning curve, but trainers arnt the only way


http://www.philsrcworld.fsnet.co.uk/...grant_2002.jpg

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

Sure go for it. Be prepaired to spend several hundred bucks and then several hundred buck and then, and then. There is nothing wrong with that. It stimulates the economy and helps those poor little kids in the Sweet Shops building more model airplanes. Also great for the LHS's and there families.

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

see another postive comment for the reason not to get a trainer $$$ then a learner low wing $$$ then a $$$ ect ;)

just be smart and get sommit nice and simple

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

Trainer cord and plastic bag, Some can learn on other than trainer some can't, Some instructor can recover a plane others can not. If you learn with out crashing a half dozen time more power to you.Then the next few times won't matter. I learned on a low wing, learned to do the basics first.

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

I've flown trainers and the Tiger 2, and I think you could learn on the Tiger. It's a trike, and it handles very predictably. BUT... The Tiger is a beautiful plane. The chances are you are going to damage some planes before you are totally competent. Why damage the beautiful plane? The rubber bands serve a purpose, preventing damage.

I'm a little nervous about your comment about time and energy to get the next plane. Little do you know! I'm only a year or two past my trainer, and I already have 7 planes (I think, there may be one or two more up in the attic), 4 engines, 2 transmitters, 3 receivers and piles of servos, and most of the guys in this hobby would say that's nothing! The problem for most of us is not enough planes, it's too many!

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

you would think you would get bored with a trainer, but they are really a lot of fun. they allow you to learn the basics of how a plane responds at different attitudes, how to touch and fgfo and so on without having to worry yourself with trying to stabilize the plane the whole time. when you are new at the sport, it is an incredible advantage to have a plane that won't crash because your thumb twitched or something incredibly stupid like that. for instance, my cap 232 (the one you see in my avatar) is really picky, had some habits, and so forth that were too much for me to handle even after 2 years of flying. i would reccomend a high wing trainer also becasue, they are a lot more forgiving with landings, if you bounce you don't put an ugly scrape in your beautiful plane, and you won't believe what you can do with a trainer. I have seen guys with fuel injected engines, onboard video cameras, retracts, shock absorbers, and even parachutes all on the same plane, which happened to be a trainer. your first couple of landings will take quite a beating on a pretty boy plane, better a trainer

Trainer?
 

Do you have an instructor? If you find one you like and feel can do the job go with his recommendations, period. You are using his time at the field and just so you know, I will not waste my time with a student who feels he knows more than me and most importantly will not listen. There is a lot to be said about those high flat bottomed wings. Go 4 channel or more (at least )so you don't have to relearn anything.

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

Who? Me or the other guys?

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

>>>>>>>>>
...is it possible to learn on that if you find someone who is willing to spend the time and with patience?
what do you think?
<<<<<<<<<<

You could learn on a turbine if you have "....someone who is willing..."

That is the question. Are you willing to PAY Yankee dollars? Enough of those green papers with "In God we trust" written on them will even make the atheists patient.

Oh I forget you were concerned about the money later for another machine. Guess you aren't up to the pay thing.
I certainly don't have the patience for the likes of you, so guess you have to be patient to find that patient instructor.

Seems to me the lack of patience looks back at you when you look into the mirror.

OTOH go for it. Your LHS needs the business.

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

As Hossfly says you can learn on anything given enough time, effort and money, the question is SHOULD you learn on a more sporty plane and will it realy save you money in the long run.

if you decide to go with the more sporty plane as an option buy 2 wings, build 1 as per plans and 1 with a heap of dihedral.

Also dial in some expo on the TX to help with the learner jitters and overcorections.

Good luck, but i'm glad it's your $$ not mine.

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

I had a couple flights on a high wing trainer, then went to a Sig Mid-Star and actually liked flying it better and learned quicker. If you have a good instructor and maybe some time on the sim I don't see why you couldn't learn on a Tiger 2.

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

Hossfly...

Boy you are way too seroius :stupid:
no.. nothing ugly looks back at me from the mirror :D
But... it is all about having fun isnt it.. like the guy who went with that glider he loved and was successful...hence you dont have patience for guys like me lemme tell ya all you need is love :p
I tried to order the tiger 2..out of stock eveywhere...maybe will go with tiger 60....

thank you all for sharing your experiences with me and wondeful suggestions.

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

I've started people on Tigers (Sky, II, and 60's) Doghouse (modified to extreame), and even went so far as to letting someone who had never flown fly my Zen 50.
The key here is make the plane fly relativly slow, and keep the throws on low, even lower than the recomended lows for the snappy planes. If you don't have the time and patience to teach someone on a well built Tiger, then most likely you are not a good teacher. A Tige that is well built will fly easy enough to let a 5 year old take the controls ( I've seen it).
I understand the "know it all" attitude is very frustrating and I don't like dealing with it either. I usually don't, but wanting to learn with something other than those ugly trainers is not a "know it all" attitude. It's ambitous, and confident.
You can tell the first day out if they can handle it. If they can't let them know.
By all means lets not turn away someone just because they come out with a non-standard trainer.

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

Nicely said CHassan.
lucky you are not here in seattle..maybe i could crash your Zen 50
:)

trainer?
 

Dont like the looks of the trainers huh well how bout the
g.p. big stick slow an easy when you want it and fast an furious
like the add says set the sky on fire or something like that!
Just my two cents worth
Mike :rolleyes:

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

ere's a thought. pick out a good plane at the field, and ask the owner if he would take you up on a buddy box on that plane, because you are "looking into purchasing it." if he says yes, and you do go fly it, keep in mind that "accidental snap roll" won't go away with time as easy as you might think, and in fact, it may save you a great deal of money in the long run, because trainers are harder to crash than ultimate bipes. what you want can probably be done, but out of your interrest, stick with a high wing trainer. if nothing else, here is the step up that will be tolorable. The great planes easy sport .40. it is a bit sportier than the average trainer, but it is very stable, still self corrects, glides really well, and has a low wing loading. i still would reccomend a trainer, but i suppose you could fly the easy sport, just make sure to program in dual rates, because that plane can. i once gave a friend of mine a flight on it, and he kinda got the hang of it. once again, easy sport .40. that is the sportiest first plane i would ever reccomend. i would take a look at it though. by the way, that thing can be shot at with a shot gun and still fly. i have had everything from weeds to mufflers go through that plane. http://www.greatplanes.com/airplanes/gpma0150.html

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

My thinking is, if it is hooked up to a buddy box, who's fault would it be if it crashed??? MINE

Now if it is not my plane and I'm helping someone, then lets say the wing breaks in 2 because he didn't glue the ply wing joiner in. That's not my fault, cannot check that in a pre flight inspection.

Anything that goes wrong and can be checked easily, thats my fault.
90% of the time a new pilot will not blame the instructor anyway, but I'm not afraid to take the blame. If it is my fault I will deal with it.
Since you are posting on this forum, you have more knowledge than the guy that flew my Zen. He said I could fly from his property IF I let him give it ago. So I let him........ It was abit more plane than he was ready for but he enjoyed it and bought himself a Tiger. (that I helped him build and even let him use my old 4 channel radio). He learned to fly that and now has one of the Tiger 60s also. (come to think of it the jerk still has my radio :eek: )

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

thanks spaceclam I like the looks of the gratplane 40 I will either buy that one or a tiger..

not a must starting with a trainer?
 

alright. i have never flown a tiger, but the easy sport is titled an aerobatic trainer, but on low rates it is as docile as a trainer.