Help With Engine Choice
 

I am getting the Tower Hobbies 40 ARF for my sons to start learning on and myself to relearn on. Which engine is the better choice, OS 46LA or TH 46BB, for reliability, longevity and user friendliness?

Thanks in advance...

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

Stick with ball bearing engines. They run stronger and won't develope air leaks at the bushings. ST.45, TH .46., TT.46 are all good values and will serve you a long time. There are other quality .45 size engine that will do just as well, these were just a few.

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

Thanks bdtsr

So much has changed since I last played with this hobby in the early 80's. Loved it then and hope to pass the passion on to the next generation. RCKen & MinnFlyer have a wonderful site up for the beginners with lots of great information. I was hoping to confirm that the TH 46BB was a good value.

Thanks again!

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

Saint,
I'll second the choice, go for the ball bearing engine.

Ken

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

I say go with the OS .46-LA. it is plenty for this airplane and it is extremely user friendly. The Tower Hobbies engines also run great and they are very powerful but I've seen more of them be problematic than I have the OS engines. Just my opinion.

No matter what engine you choose, you won't regret the airplane. It may not be the nicest looking pane out there or have the best covering but it sure flys great and is relatively rugged. It's a good value.

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

Thanks Ken and Chuck for the replies.

With the TH engines, are the problems based on one or two things, or just a 'nature of the beast' type deal? Maybe I need to look at the OS 46AX a little more seriously?

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

I'm teaching a guy right now that is using a Tower Trainer 40 with the TH 46 engine on it. I'm please with the way this engine is performing for him. It's easy to start and tune, and has been a very reliable powerplant for the plane.

Ken

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

Thanks Ken

That helps a lot.

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

Before you decide on your engine, do some reading in the engine forum to see what guys are saying there. OS has the reputation as being the best out there, but also the most expensive (minus Jett, Nelson, etc. which are high performance specialty engines). I have both the OS .46 AX and Thunder Tiger .46 Pro. The OS has a slight edge (very slight) in power, but the TT is easier to start - it'll flip start every time on the first or second flip.

Two more engines to consider are the Evolution .46 and Super Tiger GS-40. All my evolution engines are easy starters and very dependable as is my GS-40.

Hogflyer

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

Thanks Hogflyer

I remember years ago now, that a lot of the older guys flying had tigers and loved them. Hadn't considered them as of yet. Right now, easy is good with the twins. Help keep their interest and motivation level up.

Time to go visit over there and see what's what.

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

The OS .46AX is superior to both others on all accounts (including user friendlyness) However when you compare The LA series to the the tower engines the LA's while they are less powerful they are consistantly more user friendly to the final user. This user friendlyness is a direct result of less power and that is by design. In addition to different port timing if you will compare the venturi size between the Towers and the LA's of the same displacement you will see the LA is much smaller and a direct result of this is less power but more importantly superior fuel draw and delivery characteristics and this directly translates to better user 'friendlyness'.

John

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

Reading the question carefully, it says "for reliability, longevity and user friendliness". This is analogous to O.S. Engines. The LA series is supposed to be incredibly user friendly and reliable. It does not have ball bearings, but use a fuel with castor oil and this engine should last a long time on the trainer. Hopefully the trainer will do it's job and you will move past it LONG before there are any issues with the engine. And chances are you will do just that - leave the engine on the trainer and buy a new plane and engine down the road.

This is my first season in the hobby. I went with OS and am thankful (any situations that were less than optimal were either my fault or corrected by warranty within a week). I now am the proud owner of 3 O.S. engines, all the AX series.
If you are politically minded, OS engines are made in Japan and TH are made in China.

You can check user reviews of engines at the top of the page, and even compare engines. Unfortunately the 46LA is not an option to compare, and the 46LA 'blue' is a different engine. You can read reviews of the 40LA but remember the 46 has more power.

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

If I had to choose between the LA .46 and the Tower .46 for ease of operation in a trainer, I would pick the LA .46

If you do a search on Tower engines, (in the Glow Engines forum ) you'll find that while they are powerful, they are rather inconsistent in quality control...at least the .46's are. (air/fuel leaks around the front bearing...carb issues, etc. )

My recommendation would be to get a Thunder Tiger .46 Pro...it's more powerful than either the TH or LA .46's and the relability and quality is excellent. The price is not bad either.

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

reliability, longevity and user friendliness? is synonymous with O.S. Engines. LA series is supposed to be remarkably user friendly. I own 3 OS engines all in my first season. The bushings will last a very long time and this engine will end up on the trainer and not being used much down the road anyway. Go to the top of the page and research the TH engines and you will find not the best ratings.

Thunder Tiger has some really fantastic reviews, so that's a very good choice. If it were me, I'd go for saving the few dollars (really, with an OS?:D) - you won't even know about the power difference when you are learning on a trainer - you'll have plenty for what you are doing. I spent the extra money for the AX on my first plane and it would have lived on my trainer had I not crashed it. Then I moved up to a bigger size plane, so the 46AX isn't even being used (for sale actually). I'd have been just as well with the 46LA. All my OS engines start on the first flip, every day.

I wouldn't mess with a TH engine.

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

I would go with a TT .46 pro, or I have had good luck with Super Tiger .45 ABC. The LA series engine is gutless and I havent had any luck with TH engines. I will agree with the above with ball bering engines just not the TH engine, but you will hear both ways on this one

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

GaRCfield,
You're lack of experience in the hobby is speaking here. There is one MAJOR differences between the two engines, and this reason is why I will NEVER own an LA engine. Don't get me wrong, the majority of the engines that I own are OS engines, and I love them. But I wouldn't own a LA engine if it only cost me a dollar. The OS 46 LA engine has an air bleed low end adjustment, and the Tower 46 engine has a low end needle valve adjustment. There are people out there that will say there is nothing wrong with an air bleed low end and they can adjust it with no problems. And I'm not arguing with them because I know they are out there. But the experience needed to adjust one of these low ends is IMHO about the same skills it takes to tune a piano by ear. It's something that has to be learned and there is definitely a "touch" to it. Trust me, I've spent plenty of time adjusting low ends with an air bleed setup. A low end with a needle valve adjustment is much easier to tune and doesn't require as much as a "touch" as an air bleed. Trust me here, adjusting low ends is rough enough for newer pilots and they don't need the frustrations of an air bleed low end on top of what is already frustrating.

On engines with a needle valve the adjustments usually turn out to be about 1/8 of a turn, and this is pretty easy to accomplish. But because of the way an air bleed setup is made the adjustments turn out to be around 1/13-1/32 of a turn, and this is very difficult for even experienced users.

Trust me here, there is plenty of hands on experience with both types of engines (and both actual engines in fact). This fact alone was a huge part of my recommendation I gave above.

Ken

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

Thanks Ken. I didn't realize the difference in low end mechanics.

My vote is then for the Thunder Tiger .46 for only $5 more than the TH engine. People have really great things to say about the Thunder Tiger engines.

Of course, if money isn't the biggest issue I say the AX engines - I own 3 and am in my first season of flying - I am very happy with all of them.

Again, thanks for making that aware to me.

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

This isn't what the original question asked. He asked the choice between an OS 46 LA and the Tower Hobbies 46 engine. Recommending engines all the other brands of engines is taking the thread off topic and isn't helping the original poster answer his question. If he had asked WHICH engine to recommend, with no pre-defined choices, then to recommend other engines would be ok here.

Had both of his choices been bad then maybe we could warn him off about them and recommend an alternative, but once again that is not the situation here. Let's try to keep the thread on topic please.

Ken

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

Well, there's nothing wrong with mentioning those other engines. Maybe he was no aware of the TT or Evo and they are both very good options.

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

Thanks to all

I have been out of the hobby for way to long. I had not considered the other possibilities of the TT 46 or others much as of yet and grateful that that these options have been put out there for my consideration and the discussions about the differences in the tuning and other aspects of these power plants. The threads here can overload one with information and trying to get good, reliable information makes it a wonderful challenge. Thanks again to all who have responded.

Had I have not gotten an Airtronics RDS 8000 as a gift, I would have simply just bought the TH 40 RTF and gone forward with that, but since I have a wonderful setup as the RDS 8000, I am starting again with the AFR and also considering a kit to start forward on myself while my sons, who are 14, and I are getting up and running on the ARF.

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

Right out of the Tower sale flyer:
OS La 46 $80 bushing engine with air bleed carb
OS AX 46 $130 bearing engine with 2 needle carb
TH 46 $90 bearing engine with 2 needle carb
ST 45 $75 bearing engine with 2 needle carb
ST 51 $85 bearing engine with 2 needle carb
TT Pro 46 $86 bearing engine with 2 needle carb (other web site)
Evo 46 $100 bearing engine with 2 needle carb (Horizon site)
I'm not going to bash OS engines as they are great engines and I have many from .15s to 1.08s, but look at the $$$$$$. For about the same price you can get a much better engine and overall value. I have the following 46 size engines: OS 46fx, TT 46 Pro, Enya 45X, Enya 45CX, Como/ST 51, MDS 48 (junk). I also have an OS 40fp and OS 40max. The 40 max is a much better engine than the fp. As an instructor and having flown TRAINERS with the la series engines, I would not say they are a good choice in performance or value. Having that extra get out of trouble power is a nice thing.

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

I know that Ken has loads more experience than I, but I have to say that I have had great luck with my LA's. I have two .46LA's and a .25LA, and they are about the most reliable engines I own, and they are very fuel efficient. I have one .46LA on my most flown plane, and I never have to fiddle with it. I probably have 200 flights on this plane, and unless the outdoor temperature changes by 50 degrees, I don't touch the needle valve. I have never touched the air bleed, but that may be just luck.

You will certainly get more power out of the TH 46BB, and I have heard good things about them.

Good luck



edit: My LHS is still selling .46LA's for about $62. At the current pricing listed by Tower, I would not buy it. There are better values.

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

Just saw your post on your twins age. My son turns 14 in a couple of weeks. He really got into it this year big time. Had him flying an Astro Hog, 60 Stick, Tiger 60, and others before he actually soloed. Now he's flying sailplanes and other electrics. As soon as I get my Giant Stinger landing gear fixed (wheel came off), he'll be up on that. You'll be surprised how quickly they will progress and out grow the trainer. Have them sit in the house with the plane working the controls through each axis one at a time to practice moving only one control surface at a time. This gets them out of "Video Game" mode. VG controlers use swithes not linear controls so kids tend slam the the sticks like a switch instead of smooth movements.

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

bdtsr

I understand about video game mode. The boys love to tinker around too, so this will be a good way of challenging them. I am just trying to introduce them into the RC community so that down the road when they are on their own, hopefully they will have a love of RC planes and look towards this hobby and know that there are people out there that share the same interest everywhere they go. You don't know me from Adam, but have opened up to me due to our mutual interest in flying. This is what I want my sons to experience. There is good and bad in all, but in this hobby, the bad is weeded out much more quickly but those of us who love to work hard to fly. We put a lot of time and effort into the hobby. So much effort is needed to succeed that this effort alone will weed out those who don't really want to work for success.

mclina

Thanks for the other side of the coin. Sure glad to hear about your success with the LA's. Down the road I want to build something for the 25 size.

Thanks again everyone. All input is welcome.

RE: Help With Engine Choice
 

The one thing not yet mentioned in this thread is the weight of the engine. The Tower Trainer .40 Mk II ARF balances most easily with an engine in the 12 to 13 ounce range.

The Tower Hobbies .46 engine weighs in at just under 17 ounces and is too heavy to allow for balancing the plane properly without adding a bunch of weight to the tail. I don't know why Tower Hobbies uses this engine for their RTF package, but their own owner's manual shows where to put a big strip of extra weight onto the tail where it talks about balancing the CG (center of gravity).

The O.S. Max .46 LA, aside from being very user friendly and providing plenty of power for the Tower Trainer .40 Mk II ARF, also happens to weigh about 12.5 ounces with muffler, which is exactly the right weight for your airframe.

Is setting the low end on an air bleed carburator difficult? Maybe. If you buy a .46 LA for your trainer, however, odds are you can fly the thing for five years and not have to adjust the air bleed screw. We have students in our club who've been flying their Avistar and Superstar RTF trainers for years who don't even know there is a low speed adjustment on their O.S. Max LA series engines.

The .46 LA isn't the only perfect fit for your Tower Trainer .40 Mk II ARF. You would also do well to consider the Thunder Tiger GP-42, which is a bit more powerful and perhaps the easiest engine on the planet to tune.

If you would prefer a ball bearing 2-stroke, there are plenty of very nice choices in the .34 to .36 displacement range from Magnum, Super Tigre, O.S. Max, and Evolution that offer plenty of power for the Tower Trainer .40 Mk II and also fall into the ideal 12 to 13 ounce weight range.

A lot of people will tell you to just slap a .46 ball bearing 2-stroke on the nose and don't sweat the extra weight. The problem with that is you'd be adding an extra 12% or so to your wing loading and your plane's gliding and landing characteristics would be adversely affected. Your trainer would feel heavier in the air and would land faster carrying the extra weight.

Fly the .46 LA or GP-42 with prop in the 11x5 size range, or a ball-bearing .34~.36 engine with a 10x5 prop, and you'll be rewarded with a trainer with plenty of power that isn't nose heavy and has the proper glide and landing characteristics that a trainer should have.

Good luck and good shopping!