im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

Wow i was talking to a guy at the field yesterday and i asked how long it took to build his plane and he said 25 hours!!!!! I was like "it took my and hour 2 tops to build my superstar." Now is this guy a moron or does it really take that long?

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

was it an arf or a kit or a rtf? i'm building my kaos right now and have put in about 18 hours in it thats from a kit!!!! got 12 more hours or so coming too......my avistar arf took about 8 hours!

Re: im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

OK impulse, first off you did not build your RTF, instead you bolted a few major components together. Now the gentleman with the ARF did not build his ship either instead he assembled componets with more construction steps installed his own engine, tank and did his own radio installation from scratch. The only one who truly builds his airplane is from a kit or even without a kit which takes infinately more time than either one of you. Now does that make you or the other fellow a moron? Of course not.

Why on earth would anyone build from a kit then? It certainly can cost more to build from a kit. Well the kit builder is going to acquire a huge variety of skills gradually that will be used in good stead most of his life. This fellow will be able to repair or salvage totally wreaked airplanes something you will simply not be able to do without developing those skills. Perhaps he will go on to design his own aircraft to his desires, he will be able to build totally unique aircraft or bash something else into something entirely his own. Additionally building will carry a great deal of satisfying pride that is simply none existant with the ARF, ARC, RTF.

So is the ARF or RTF a bad thing and of course the answer is no, they do serve a purpose after all an RTF got you involved, something which may never have occured otherwise. Now is the time I would urge you to get a simple kit and take your time building it as you fly your RTF.

One last thought, When the learning stops in this sport/hobby is invarably when people drop out never to be seen agine. Its truly as shame when this happens as there is an endless variety of new horizons to strive for.

So you are most welcome to our world to enjoy and are you ready to learn?

John :)

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

^^^ i was just wondering if the guy was dumb and it would of taken some one else alot faster.

yes...
 

well spoken johnbuckner...

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

Only 25 hours??? Now that's not a lot of time to spend assembling an ARF. If you want to spend some time build a kit, now that's time consuming!!! In the early 70's I competed in scale and from a set of plans I built a F4-f wildcat and this was before super glue hit the market and before pre fab stuff was available, I did the complete cockpit and I kept a log of my time, just over 400 hours!

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

When I started to fly I bought an Avistar, I opened the box and assembled it in about 15 min. It was a great flyer and was very happy with it.

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

Frankly, some guys are faster builders than others. Some guys build certain styles fater than others.

I'm a slow builder, mostly because my building skills are rusty, and I've been learning a lot of new variations. I also tend to modifiy things a bit, and that always takes more time.

So, is he a moron? No, I don't think so. Did it take him longer than it might have someone else? Sure. Did he cover all the details that someone in a hurry might have blown over? I dunno, but it's quite possible.

For example, when you assembled your RTF, did you inspect the firewall to make sure the joints looked right? Did you triple check the servo tray? (I've seen 3 servo trays come loose in ARF and RTF trainers now). Did you balance the plane laterally? Did you seal the hinge gaps? Did you even check the hinge installation by tugging on the surfaces? The list goes on and on. These days, the ARF and RTF kits are remarkable in how well they are built and how consistant they are, you don't see mistakes that often. But they do happen.

btw, I do recommend you get yourself an "old fasion" wood kit to put together while you fly your ARFs. As others have mentioned, it will help you in the future with repairs and it will open up a broader range of options for future planes.

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

I built an Avistar ARF and it probably took me over 25 hours. I am not sure because I didn't actually set a timer. However, it was my first plane other than a CL plane I built 30 years ago. Sometimes I only have 30 minutes to work on a plane and sometimes I spend 4-5 hours. One thing is for sure though, I tend to read the instructions multiple times and even review them as I perform the steps. Stupid?....nope, careful....yes. Maybe I will speed up over time, but that isn't my goal anyway.

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

My Midwest Aero-Star trainer was build over the course of last winter. I started building in September, and finished in March (pretty much). Of course this was a kit, even if someone encouraged me to get an ARF instead of a kit. Seriously, I couldn't be bothered to build an ARF, I'd rather spend the time building a kit and making it MY plane. An ARF to me is like buying a used coloring book :)

I'm not bashing ARFs either, like someone else said, they serve their purpose. I suppose if I crashed my plane in the middle of the season and had no replacement, I might consider one while I built another kit, but for me, spending 100 hours building a plane is most of the fun involved in this hobby! I don't know exactly how many hours it took building my trainer (I worked on it mostly weekends), but I took my time and quite probably more time than I really needed. I enjoyed the moment; to me the moron is the one that rushes the plane into the air.

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

(post # 3) Well said.

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

impulse,
The first plane I put together was a Great Planes PT 40 ARF. It required stuff like constructing the pushrods out of wood dowels (which required drilling), thread, CA glue and music wire that I had to bend to fit. I only had to make two of these, the first probably took me an hour, the second one twenty minutes.

You also had to hinge the surfaces and mount the control horns, install a servo tray (after cutting it for your servos), drill the servo tray and mount all the servos (making sure the grommets were installed correctly.

Epoxy the wing halves together after assembling the 3 piece dihedral brace, while making sure to maintain the proper dihedral.

I had to drill the firewall and install blind nuts for the engine mount. Determine where the engine would be mounted on the mount and drill and tap the mounting holes. Cut fuel lines, assemble the pieces and put the fuel tank together, wrap it in foam, thread the fuel lines through the firewall, and mount the tank.

Fit the throttle linkage so the carb would be fully open in one direction, and would close to "kill" the engine when throttle trim was all the way down (but still allow it to idle properly when trim was up).

Drill the fuselage bottom to fit the landing gear mounts and mount the gear. Fit the front nose gear assembly, figure out the linkage so that the nose gear would steer without binding the servo, while still making sure the rudder had proper travel.

Cut the covering off the Fuse at the rear and mount the horizontal and vertical stabilizers, making sure they were perpendicular to the fuse and level, respectively.

Trial fit the wing and get IT level and true. Then drill the wing and the wing bolt blocks while keeping the wing true. Then install blind nuts in the wing block. And of course the aileron torque rods had to be installed and the hole cut in the wing for the servo. Then the ply plate assembled and mounted, followed by the aileron servo.

I think you're probably beginning to see where it might be possible to spend 25 (or more) hours assembling an ARF. ;) How much of this did you have to do?

Now, my first kit was a TopFlite Cessna 182, with an 81 inch wingspan. After putting 250 hours into it (I logged my time), I put it aside. Burned myself out on it, still haven't worked on it again, and probably have a couple hundred more hours to go. (Assembly of the ABS cowl, Wheel Strut covers, and cockpit kit, servo installation, and all the covering and painting to do.)

I've since put a lot of ARF's together, and built a lot of kits. Someday I'll finish the Cessna. :rolleyes:

Try a small kit sometime. Like a 4*40. (They're easy.) It'll give you a new appreciation for this hobby. :D
Dennis-

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

Newer call some one you dont know moron ! or for that matter anything else negative, it will only say something about you.

About construction time:
My dad had a huge plane !! he spend 1000 hrs assembling it in total ! he will NEWER fly it, he LOVES it too much to even scratch it, every time I visit him I look at this plane and feel a WOW inside me.

This hobby is so large ! I mean some fly, some construct, some invent, some try.. what ever you do, try to have fun and try to get friends.

Avistar in 15 minutes ?
 

To Post # 7............What's this a joke, not even Santa Claus with all his elves can't built an Avistar in 15 minutes. I've built an Avistar within the time the instruction said. Remember that the wing joiner requires a 30-minutes epoxy. Give me a break please.

This is not for post # 7, but for the person who called somebody a moron..............
And for that person who called somebody a moron, that was a very childish comment coming from a grown up. I'm assuming you are an adult. Most guys I meet at the field are intelligent people and most helpful.
Make friends and not enemies and you will accomplish respect.

Garthwood

15 minutes
 

He was having so much fun it just seemed like fifteen minutes :D

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

or he had the avistar rtf :p

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

Garthwood,
If I remember correctly, impulse is in his mid teens, so we need to cut him a LITTLE slack. We were all a bit "impulsive" at that age. ;)

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

Time to build/assemble is by no means an indicator of someone's abilities. In fact, the faster I put things together the more of a moron I look ;)

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

I am a kinda fast builder and seems to find myself building a kit plane in a week, but cover and radio gear takes me 3 - 4 more week in total I can get my kit ready in less that 6 weeks.

now, am I a moron??

come tell me and ............







if your a SPAD builder please ignore the above.. N/A

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

i think everey young pilot that flys r/c is on this site.......older guys dont go on the web as much......only 2 other guys from my club come to this site...... i'm 13 youngest member of my club.

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

Off topic but a touch on the younger gen comment. For all you younger pilots out there it makes us older guys very happy to have been part of your learning curve in this great hobby, and even more happier when you have passed the adolescent stage migrating into an adult managing to maintain your flying ability into progression.

Blackie

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

I would like to make this clear. Im not saying this plane is bad i was just saying im glad i didn't get it as a first time flier. Just because i started out and i don't want to build that much just fly.

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

impulse, I believe you are missing the point, its not the fact that you were commenting on the plane its the wording you used and the way you went about it. Calling someone else names was not a proper way of expressing your thoughts.

im glad i didn't get a avistar
 

The Avistar Select and the Superstar Select can both be ready to fly in 20 minutes.

They are both RTF - radio and engine are installed. Screw on the landing gear, bolt on the tail feathers and screw the wing together and they are ready to go. So yes, Santa Claus could get either plane in the air in 20 minutes. (I know the wings should be expoxied together but the instructions mention nothing about using epoxy to join the wings or tail sections) These planes are advertised as RTF in 20 minutes......

So if the original poster was obviously comparing a RTF to an ARF....thus, if it took the original poster an hour to assemble a RTF that should only take 20 minutes.....now back to who is calling whom names...???

Avistar in 15 minutes ?
 

Raptor #20.

I'm so happy to hear that at 13 you're-an-rcer.......keep it up kid, and don't let anything discourage you. If you give up this hobby now you'll be sorry in later life, I was. And by the way there are a lot of old guys on the net, please don't insult their intelligence.
Always listen to your eldest, they mean well. Never try to show off especially at the field, participate and help out the underdog and the insecure, and you'll be rewarded 100 X 10 to infinity.
Good luck with the hobby, built them and crush them, it's the only way to learn from this hobby. Get the full experience by building kits.............Arfs are for Arfs...........Arfs are well built nowadays and they're worth the money..........building cost more, but we all have to pay for enjoyment. There's a big difference when you built and see it fly, there's more excitement.
Good luck Kid
Garthwood