Another Newbie!
 

There is a lot to be said for having what other members of the club have. On the other hand, someone had to be first and why not you.

A lot depends on how willing you are to go it alone. How willing are you to dig into the manual and learn how to do things yourself.

There is no substitute for understanding the principals of flight and mixing and such. The members of your club are your best advisors. However, figuring out how to do it on your own might be a lot of fun. In addition it gives you the chance to be the leader in this one area, if you like to take that leadership position.

In the end, most 4 channel radios should be able to fly most 4 channel planes. And enough pilot skill can handle coordination of turns and such. What the computer radio does is take the load off the pilot during the flight and shifts it to the planning before the flight.

Another Newbie!
 

The BIG reason to find out what the instructors are using is trainer cord compatibilty.

JR and Futaba trainer cords do NOT talk to each other. I have no idea about Airtronics. I've heard that Hitech talks to Futaba most of the time. (maybe some issues with which one is the instrutor and which is the student box, but I'm not sure).

Another Newbie!
 

kirk in the case of Hitec and Futaba buddy boxing they will work fine 'if' only the hitec directional cord is used. Either Tx can be used as master it only matters that the Master end of the cord is plugged into the master tx. I have used quite a few of these various combinations.

John :)

Another Newbie!
 

Had not thought of the buddy box since I am self taught. Have never used a buddy box. :cool:

Another Newbie!
 

A decision AEAJR that at some point in time you may come to regret a bit as you move up that ladder in aircraft complexity from the simple park flyers you are flying now.

John

Another Newbie!
 

Thanks Montague, that was the point I was getting at :)

Another Newbie!
 

Interesting insight. Could you elaborate? How is being self taught and having never used a buddy box going to hurt me in the future.

I fly with complete confidence now, make smooth landings and approach each new flight with complete confidence. I can bring the plane down dead stick from 200 feet with no problem. Actually dead stick is my standard way of landing.

So how will I be hurt in the future.

I am not offended, I am totally curious. :confused:

Another Newbie!
 

OK fair enough, You have taught yourself to fly a simple airplane that flys at perhaps fifteen miles per hour, is controlled around two axis plus a throttle and flown very close in.

It is a huge step from there to a conventional trainer that is going to fly at least three times as fast at least three times further away because of that speed with the need for considerably refined orientation skills. This aircraft is going to need to be controlled around all three axis and there will be a change in the various levers that provide that control depending on your radio.

Now I commend you for success with your first steps However when someone brags about 'having been 'self taught' at that level on these forums and in somes cases implying you are better off going it alone, then this is doing a real disservice to us all. There was even one increditable thread recently when a gentleman went for it alone and of course crashed in under thirty seconds then went on to imply everybody should do it on their own!!

I fly at a municipal field of a small town and there are no clubs involved to speak of. Anybody can fly and on an almost daily basis folks show up with either entirely inappropriate airplanes or may have an adaquate trainer but refuse all help which is always offered in a pleasant way. When this happens all we can do is take cover. These folks are usually lost to the sport forever. This is a probable result of the influence you can have when you bragg about being 'self taught'.

So is it impossible to teach yourself? No of course not, Many of us have done just that simply because there was no other way and not only that we had to do it all over agine many times as technology changed entirely the way we flew our airplanes.

Is it a good idea it imply that its better to teach yourself? Absolutly not and it will do an awfull lot of folks a real disservice.

All of the above is just my opinion however I do stand by it.

John

Another Newbie!
 

Hi.
Get ARF and go to the field :)
Once u get into building u won't find the time for flying:)
I was busy building my 2nd plane, my Royal Corsair is almost done and i still dont have any idea how to fly my trainer :( Ive never been out with it :).
I guess i have to find some1 to make that maiden flight....

Good luck:)

Another Newbie!
 

Thanks for your clarification.

I am not bragging I am self taught. That was simply a statement of fact so that my skill, or lack there of, is not based on the guiding hand of an instructor. By no means do I suggest that this is the best route. It just happened to my my path.

Crash? Oh boy did I crash. Unsafe? Well if I were flying in a small busy field, learning on my own might have been a very bad idea as it would have represented a safety issue for those around. But that is not my situation at all.

Our field is an 1800 by 900 open grass field. Most of my "training time" was spent on the field alone. Here is a shot of the field:
http://www.lisf.org/Pictures/29070035.jpg

Today my Aerobird spends most of its time at about 200-300 feet up and it is not unusual for me to have the plane 1,500+ feet out. The transmitter range is about 2,500 feet, so I am still within safe distance for the transmitter.

I did set up a low speed pylon course a few weeks ago to see how I could handle it. It was fun and quite challenging. I would not consider myself a pylon racer, but as long as the wind stayed under 7 MPH, I could stay on the course OK.

My flights are smooth and even and I spend most of my time at about half throttle as it gives me solid 12 minute flights. Today I fly in 10-15 MPH winds without a problem.

My loops are still a little uneven and I am working on tail slides and chantell turns.

This particular 3 channel plane is extreamly easy to fly. We have 2 pilots in our club who have had little to no success flying either through trianing or on their own. They are both successfully flying this plane. It is just a real easy to fly 3 channel electric that can stand up to a lot of punnishment. One guy has been trying for 8 years and has never had a successful flight of more than a minute. Today, with a little guidance from myself and others, he is doing loops.

I will point out that we have no runway, so most of our launches are hand toss. Landings are slides into the grass and with a field that big, you can land pretty much anywhere so we have not had to master runway skills. Some probably never will unless we go out of our way to do so, which I plan to do.

I think buddy boxes are great and applaud those who take the time to train others. I hope to do that myself some day and if I do, a buddy box will be a great aid.

My next plane is the Electrajet which is a delta wing type elevon plane. Again I will work on that on my own. I have hand launched and landed other electric planes without trouble.

After the Electrajet, I go to a pure glider.

So, while being self taught is not for everyone, and certainly can not be accomplished at just any field, it can be done.

If I were to come to your field, which sounds like a small crowded runway based place, I would want to go on a buddy box for my first few flights, so that I did not represent a safety issue to others.

With the right plane, and some patience and common sense, you can be successful on your own. But I would definately recommend instruction to anyone who has it available.

Another Newbie!
 

JohnBuckner,

That was one of the best replies to the "self" taught school of thought that keep cropping up. Your post should be included in a sticky note at the top of this forum.

Getting people to understand the the differences between a park/slow flyer and a "traditional" glow powered plane can be difficult at times.

AJEAR,

Landing "on the runway" is one of the most important skills that one needs to develop. It sounds like you are already well on your way to learning "bad" habits by simply landing anywhere on the field. If you don't have a "runway" at your field try putting out some cones and practice spot landing the plane. Being able to consistantly land your plane on a spot of your own choosing is extrememly important.

Another Newbie!
 

I would agree that landing on the runway is a very important skill, if you have a runway to land on. You will get no argument from me. No question about it. But it is only one of many important skills.

Actually the cone idea is similar to what I have been doing. I appreciate your confirmation of my approach.

A large number of the pilots in our club are glider pilots who compete based on time in the air and how close they can land the plane to a specific target. So, while there is no runway to lane on, there is definitely a precision landing element to what we do on this field. We are simply not restricted by space the way most fields are.

As for glo planes, not interested. Pretty presumptuous of you to think that I would ever be looking to fly a glo based plane. Why bother? Electrics are clean, quiet, reliable, virtually maintenance free and do not suffer deterioration based on fuel leakage. The idea that all pilots must fly glo is long past. I can fly electrics that can break 100 MPH, perform full 3D routines, execute all the patterns in the book, or run pylons all day long. Why go to glo? My flight control electronics don't have to be padded and I can mount them anywhere they best fit and balance the plane.

The flying principals are exactly the same. And while weight and power are different, they simply give the glo pilot the ability to power through the air and wind that the pilot of a lighter plane can not do. I have had at least two glo pilots tell me that my plane could not be flown in more than 5 MPH winds. Of course what they ment was that they would not have the skill to do it. However I do.

Flying a 16 ounce, lightly powered plane in 15 MPH winds is more challenging and requires a much finer precision than a bigger, more powerful plane would require. If you look at power to weight ratios, I think you will see that parkflyers are probably closer to full scale planes than your average glo plane. But that is irrelevant as this is a hobby, not a recreation of flying full scale planes.

There is a lot of learning around glo that is simply not needed when flying electrics. We focus on flying rather than fuel and tuning engines. We fly on the wing, not on the prop.

Electrics are where the hobby is going and, from what I have seen, they are easier to fly. Perhaps that is why electrics are the fastest growing segment of RC flying. We don't have to spend hours tuning the engine and dealing with engine stalls in the air. This allows us to focus our attention on flying rather than engine care.

Glo will always be there, but it will be a diminishing part of the sport. Over time the noise and smell will push the glo planes further into the boonies. The electrics will continue to grow and the ease with which they can be flown will become the standard.

It is funny, the glider pilots have the same attitude. If you aren't stick building gliders then you are not really flying. How ridiculous.

Enjoy your glo planes. Instruct your students and be proud of what you do. You should be.

But stop looking down your nose at people who have taken a different path and who can be successful doing it. We are not a threat to you. And, should I wish to fly at a field that has a runway and tight airspace, I will definitely seek an instructor. In fact there is one near by that I plan to seek certification on just to say I did it. I will help me develop and fine tune another set of skills.

Of course I will want an instructor, for safety reasons. At least until I have demonstrated that I have the ability to take-off and land on the runway safely and consistantly. I will work on the rest till then.

This thread started out about flying and had turned into a turf war about training methods. I don't understand why. There are many paths to success. Alot depends on the student.

Thanks for the tips on skills and training. I will try to put them to good use.

Another Newbie!
 

AEAJR,

You are 100% correct I should have been more precise and included High performance electrics in addition to glow power. However my comparison was between parkflyers/slow flyers and more traditional planes. Learning to fly these may not provide the skills to transition to higher performance planes (glow or electric) and getting people to understand that is what I was referring to. You seem to be a case in point. Have you tried a plane that can fly 3 times as fast or as far as your Aerobird?
I'm not looking down my nose at your nor am I threatened by your accomplishments. I simply am of the opinion that while one can learn on there own in most cases its unnecessary and can even be counter productive.

I've done a lot of reading on ezone in regards to parkflyers and own some myself. While I do not consider myself to be an authority my experience since I fly both types is that being able to fly a Aerobird Tiger Moth or other small plane even in a 15 MPH wind Does NOT necessarily mean one has acquired the skills necessary to fly a higher performance plane in no wind.

As far as your statement about the future of electrics.... Well your guess is as good as mine.


If you're flying 3D then you are flying on the prop not the wing
:D ;)

Simple definition of 3D. Maneuvers performed with wing in a stalled condition.

Another Newbie!
 

About 65 miles SW of Albany

Another Newbie!
 

Crashem

Finally you and I are in 100% agreement. Glad we go to this point. Flying a park flyer at 20 MPH does not prepare you for a high power glo or gas plane doing 80-100 mph. Just as driving a car at 55 doesn't prepare you for the indy 500. But you could get behind the wheel of an indy car and probably get it around the track safely and eventually get it over 150 MPH.

However, you would never be competitive without formal training. Of course that assumes that you ever wanted to do that.

And yes, 3D, regardless of the power is on the prop. You got me good! I salute your reply, really. I like it.

In any case, I am not working toward high speed planes because I have no interest in high speed glo or electric. My Aerobird is probably a 20 -25 mph plane. The electrojet will probably be similar, perhaps 30 MPH. More aerobatic, but still pretty tame. I am working on pilot skills, not speed runs. That's fine with me.

As I said, my next plane after that will be an unpowered sailplane. Now, that is real flying! No power at all, just pilot skill, thermals, the breeze and strategy.

I can't wait.

Crashem, and everyone else, this has been a fun exchange! Let's do it again in some other thread!

Another Newbie!
 

HA!! I just got Real Flight G2 running. It was the virus checker running in the background causing problems.

G2 rocks!! I was having a ball. I can take off OK. My flight skills are medium, most of the time, until I lose my cool! No landings yet. Im flying the PT-40. The sounds are very nice too. Depth preception is tough!

Got about 2-3 weeks to practice. It might get adicting!! :)

Just made a deal to get my first plane. A Hobbico Superstar!!

A OS .46 FX engine will be mailed to me tomorrow.

I will join AMA this week and try that RC club again.

Things are a rollin

Clear Skies

Swager

Another Newbie!
 

Best of luck with your new plane and your new SIM

Another Newbie!
 

Well lets see, where am I? I got my AMA card. Talked to the R/C Club near here and was invited out to fly one of their trainers once I got my AMA card. Believe I will go there this Thursday.

Got a OS .46FX enginea week ago and my Superstar (with OS .40 engine and Futaba SkySport) came in the mail last Friday. I got two glow plug starters, a 4-way wrench, manual fuel pump and a Hobbico Field Kit with a battery and power panel.

Buying some accessories this week: Extra Glow plugs (OS#8), an extra prop (11x4) , putting on 3" foam wheels to replace the 2.5" wheels, get fuel (10% nitro, 20% lube), some extra wheel collars, a fuel filter, and misc tools.

Hopefully I be ready. Im taking my plane over to the field so the guys there can look it over and make sure it is OK. IM getting there slowly but surely!

Well now back to flying RF G2. :)

Clear skies

Another Newbie!
 

Ok. New update.

Been flying every Thursday during the club's "Training Night"

So far, I have had the Superstar up about 16 times. My last lesson I took off about 5 times. The week before that my take offs were, to say the least, TERRIBLE!! :)

I have gotten alot better. My takeoffs now are satisfactory, but still need to improve. I am starting to make slow approaches from 1 mistake high for landing. Maybe touch-and-goes soon.

My engine has some problems last weeks but the guys got together and cleared out a clog in the carb. After that it ran like a tiger.

Still alot to learn, but having fun!

Clear skies

Another Newbie!
 

Performed some touch and goes last night. Some of them, all I had to do was not increase throttle and it would of been a great landing. Also working on the entire landing approach.

Got in 3 more take-offs. The last one was straight down the runway combined with a almost perfect climb rate. My best one yet!!

Things are coming together.

My goal is to solo by August 2008!!

Clear Skies

Another Newbie!
 

Great posts! I feel like I am there with you learning to fly. Keep the updates coming. They are very interesting. For new flyers they may be very helpful to understand what the progression is of your lessons.

If you feel up to it, perhaps you can outline what your lessons consist of.

Another Newbie!
 

Well the first thing I remember is making myself go to a club and just talk to someone. I had already set myself to the fact I was finally going to do this. I have always wanted to fly R/C but never had the chance to just settle down and do it.

I stopped inthe field on a Thrusday night, which is the clubs training night. There were planes in the air and I watched for awhile when i finally got the nerve to ask for the guy in charge of training. They pointed me to him and he noticed and came right over and started talking to me. He gave me the details of what to expect. He asked me if I had a plane yet, did I join AMA, do I have any prior experience. I still have not received my AMA card yet, or my plane for that matter. So he told me to come back next week and they would do a plane and radio check for me. I watched for about another hour, talking to various people and left with a bunch of information in newsletters, about the club. more things to expect.

The following week I take my plane in. I tell them I need my plane inspected. In about 1 minute, three guys were looking it over. Three problems, they fixed two but the other required some epoxy repair. After that they talked to me about radio safety, flight line safety, radio checks and some various club policies.

The following week my plane is inspected again and given the OK nod. Then my plane got an engine check. They had to adjust the throttle linkage. During that time that showed the various points of starting an engine and the safety concerns. I got my radio and put it into the inpound. Where all radios without a frequency pin must stay while you are at the field.

The engine guys looked at me and said, "OK lets get her up!"

What? Wait, wait, Im not mentally ready to do this! What should I do now? Run? Make up some excuse, due to the fact I am scared. Was I scared? You darn right I was!! Instead, I stupidly stood ther and said, OK.

I got my radio and traded my AMA card for frequency pin #36. Attached the pin onto my antenna. OK, we have to do a range check. Trnasmitter on first, then receiver. Transmitter, on first, off last!! Keep your antenna in and go about 50 feet away. Move your sticks and ensure they move the controls the right way.
Ensure no reversed servos. Everything looks good!

It a weird feeling knowing your plane is gong up for the first time. Man, you are going to be on the flight line. Will your plane fly? Will it crash? Will it be so hard to fly due to building mistakes that no instructor wants to touch it. Will the radio die? Did I charge the batteries enough?

I had to sign in with the flight boss. He is resbonsible for trainer sign in on the flight line. He will ask you your name, phone number and frequency channel. He informed me I was up next in station 2. He informed me to get my plane started. I helped start it. Which was nerve racking in it's own. I carried my plane out to the line and set it on the ground with that engine at idle. The main instructor took my plane up for it's virgin flight.

The instrucor called "TAXI" and gunned the engine and the plane made it way onto the field. The instructor was talking the entire time in a calm tone, but I'll be damned if I can remember what he said. Always taxi in a "block" or "box" pattern. Never taxi straight out to the take off point or never taxi straight in to the stations from a landing point. He turned it into the wind and called "Taking Off" and away it went. It happend so fast my plane was in the air, and the instructor was trimming it out. We did not use a buddy box. I have yet to see one used at the field I fly at.

He got my plane to "3-mistakes high" where I could fly around. At first he kept his fingers on the sticks and let me get used to the motion. I flew around in figure 8s and he wanted me not only to get the feel of the airplane but also the feel of the field. Basically keeping my bearings straight. Where's the field, Where's the pits, where's the road. This is more difficult than it sounds. Orientation while flyings is something to get use to.

After the flight boss called "10 minutes" ( it seemed like 4 or 5) The instructor took over total controls and landed this plane so smooth it was sickening. Perfect landing!

The instructor looked at me and said "Fuel her up!" I went over and was all thumbs. Take the fuel line off the carb, no, no, wait off the filter. Which way does the fuel flow? Pop off the fuel line going to the muffler. Insert the fuel supply line in the tank line. Which one is that? OK move your pump handle. After 4 turns, whooops! Wrong way! Go the other way.

The second flight was the same as the first, except the instructor just handed me the transmitter, "Here ya go!"

WHAT? "Are you kidding??" Talk about all thumbs! I finally got my bearing right and actually flew the plane. The Real Flight G2 really did pay off!

That was basically my first week of flying a R/C plane. Mentally brutal!!

I go every week. I get there early. I am hooked. I learn something new every day. I get my plane ready and start it without a second thought. I still take extra care when that prop is spinning. But I am more sure of myself now. I feel good about beign on the flight line. It is a privliage to be there. and I hope I never give the others a reason not to trust me.

I know this was long, but these are the thoughts going through teh head of a new R/C pilot. For those of you who do not feel alittle panic or fear everytime that engine starts then you are braver than I. And more calm.

This past Thursday I did an almost perfect take-off and climb out and I was just tickled. It, so far, was my finest hour!

Clear skies!!

Another Newbie!
 

Wow! Your posts are outstanding. Keep 'em coming. I feel like I am reading an adventure story. I can't wait for the next chapter.

Another Newbie!
 

Im gald you enjoy me ramblings. I hope more people can relate to where I am coming from.

You will learn may things while being taught how to fly. If you remember one thing, let it be one of the most basic lessons. Please do not forget about transmitter check-in. One of the most important things you can perform is CHECK IN THE TRANSMITTER!

People get nervous with rouge transmitter running around. It is easy, as soon as you get to the field, take that transmitter and put it in imbound until you are ready to use it.

A student can take gradual steps in flying a R/C airplane or they can take pretty large jumps. Remember, you will have different flight instructors during the different times you fly. At my field it is very rarely you will get the same instructor 2 or 3 times in a row. I've had 6 different flight instructors already, so basically you have to tell them your progress. Where are you at? You are fooling and cheating yourself if you tell one instructor you are further along than you are.

Take things one step at a time. Get comfortable with what you are doing before you move on to the next phase. Next phase?

There many different phases at the field I fly at:

Club policies and rules
Airframe and engine checkout
Range checks
Engine start-up and safety
Proper operations in the pits
Proper operation on the flight line
Basic flight manuevers (Basic Figure 8 and Box pattern)
Advanced flight maneuvers (Flying with orientation)
Meduim level runway passes
Low level runway passes
Taxing
Take-Offs and climb out
Landing approaches
Touch-and-Go's
Landing
Emergency Procedures
Solo

You can fly an R/C airplane, but there is alot to know to be a safe R/C pilot. Being able to taxi take-off and land doesn't mean you can fly. Flying safely takes place on the groung also. Flying safely and performing a true solo requires the trust and understanding of your fellow R/C pilots. How do they feel about you? Do they trust you? Do they know you enough to trust you? Have they seen you fly over and over again and know you can be trusted?

I have had 18 flights with my Superstar. I feel more and more confident when I take her up. I do range checks, start her, get a feel for her engine, carry her, taxi her, take-off with her, fly her around, make good landing approaches, taxi her back, and shut her down. I also put her to bed after the day's flying is done. Clean her with Windex, drain the fuel and run it out, and lube her with after run oil. I wipe her down so she is clean. How well she flys is totally dependent upon me. It is my responsibility.

I doubt if I will solo before the end of the flying season. I got into it late this season. Do not be in a hurry. You may hear of R/C pilots soloing after a few lessons, or ones who solo right after picking up a transmitter. This is very unique. Learning to fly R/C takes time and effort. Do not campare your self with anyone else. Start and continue at your own pace.

Remember, learing to fly properly starts on the ground!!

Clear skies!!

Swager

"No matter how much you know, there is always more you can learn. The pilot who thinks he knows it all, is the most dangerous!"

RE: Another Newbie!
 

Well the end of the flying year is here for Training. In my last two sessions the instructor took the Xmitter from me by my request for a check of trim. Other than that, only I touched the Xmitter. I performed all start-ups, take-offs, taxing, touch and goes, and landings. Most of them were pretty good.

Did not get to solo, but that is OK. It was a great first flying year. I learned so much and that was my main goal. I do not believe I am a danger to anyone when my plane is under my control.

I ordered and received my second plane. So hopefully I can get her built this winter.

To all those in RCU that have helped me and showed an intrest in reading my experiences, thank you!

Clear Skies!

Swag