rudder & roll
 

I been practicing flying with a computer flight simulator I don’t use the rudder because it makes the planes roll badly and I need to use the airlines to recover from the roll or crash is this just the sim. Or does happen during real flying?

RE: rudder & roll
 

It happens with some planes more than others, mostly trainers with lots of dihedral but it can happen on others, too.

What I did with my Nexstar was to initiate the turn with ailerons, use the rudder to kick the tail around while simultaneously feeding in opposite aileron to correct for the coupling (what you are talking about is called coupling), and start to roll out of the turn. That plane had a ridiculous amount of dihedral. I don't think I've ever really needed 'opposite' aileron in a turn otherwise.

Flying a real cessna, there is a little coupling. Just requires less ailerons to make a turn.

Some people will mix ailerons to rudder to compensate, but I think it's best to learn how to handle a plane without mixes. Use mixes as tools, not crutches.

RE: rudder & roll
 

Get in the habit of using rudder.

Your problem may be too much rudder imput. When turning at a 'normal' bank angle, use both rudder and aileron in small amounts.

Not using rudder will result in an uncoordinated turn. IMO, it looks ridiculous to have a plane turn with a "lazy" tail not following through.

Practice on the sim with small amouts of rudder (with small amounts of aileron)... the plane will arc through a turn nicely. ;)

RE: rudder & roll
 

It happens during real flight, depending on the model; and it is not a bad thing, just another way to bank for turning.

That is the way many silplanes of two channels and some motorized models of three channels (throttle, elevator, rudder) turn.

Check this old thread:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_73...tm.htm#7307964

RE: rudder & roll
 

Hmmm interesting, I never use the rudder to turn, just ailerons and a little up elevator. Rudder for taxi, take off and landing. Guess I should learn to use it more.

RE: rudder & roll
 

Once I learned to use rudder in my turns it changed the way I look at planes in the air. I just got some video from AMA of people flying planes, and half of the guys didn't coordinate turns; looks strange watching a plane go around a corner with it's tail hanging down, especially the scale war birds. They don't let just anyone fly a plane in the military, and I would bet that the guys that do make it use rudder in their turns ;)

Practicing this on RC planes even set me up to fly a full-scale cessna. There's a little indicator that shows if your tail is in line with the plane, and it was second nature to use rudder and keep the tail up. You can really feel the difference - has much more of a tracking feel.

RE: rudder & roll
 

Joe,

I was one of those military pilots for 18 years. The use of rudder in a turn depends a great deal on the type of aircraft flown. If the airplane is a swept wing jet no rudder is generally used except on takeoff, landing, and aerial combat maneuvers. Flying an airplane like a C-130 rudder is certainly used to coordinate the turns. It all depends. :)

RE: rudder & roll
 

I was given a trainer some time ago that I was using to teach with, all you had to do was think about touching the rudder and the plane would go into a roll, most trainers are not that touchy but this one was. That was the only plane I had that was like that, I think it was a Tower Trainer but not sure, it was given to me and I never bothered to look to see what I had. Three students learned to fly with that old dog and they all know how to use a rudder very well today. Sometimes touchy can be a good thing!!

RE: rudder & roll
 

Sorry, I was just watching a video of some big old prop war birds, some twin engines, which is what I was thinking about. Hadn't thought what it would be like to fly a jet:eek:

RE: rudder & roll
 

I use rudder in my turns just because it looks more "neat" and the turn actually feels more controlled. I do admit that sometimes in flight I just get lazy and only use the aileron too turn. I guess this various from person too person which you prefer.

RE: rudder & roll
 

Hey wzak29. Here's about the best explaination I can give for controlled turns since you have a simulator program on your computer. Go into "Chase Mode" and observe the aircraft when doing turns at medium to low speed. Without the rudder input you'll notice how the aircraft will try to keep flying in a straight line but with a little rudder it will follow the curve nicely. A high wing trainer style will handle turns just fine with only rudder deflection. Three channel basic trainers have no ailerons. The rudder throw provides for course change. The roll this causes is because as the rudder is applied and the aircraft begins to turn in the direction of the rudder throw, the wing on the outside of the turn is having to travel through the air faster than the wing on the inside of the turn. The outside wing gains lift and the inside wing loses lift; therefore, the degree of roll is proportinal to the amount of rudder deflection. You may notice that on many sport planes and combat versions (i.e., the P-51) there is a smaller amount of rudder above the horizontal stabilizer than below it. This decreases the amount of roll induced by the rudder deflection. On your simulator, try using the rudder to make slow gentle turns and use the elevator to maintain your altitude. I'll bet you find that it flies more gracefully than it did when you were using just the ailerons. Later, try working the alierons into the turns. Best of flights to you. Gordon.

RE: rudder & roll
 

If I understand the OP's question, he is asking about a roll. When I take the trainer out for a lazy day and do a roll, I've found that my trainer does a nice slow roll if I start the roll with aileron and I give a little up elevator to begin the roll, then a little down elevator as I invert during the roll. I generally don't use rudder during the roll with my trainer. Rudder during a turn is helpful but not required.

RE: rudder & roll
 

For full scale planes this is a good explanation http://www.airbum.com/articles/ArticleRudder.html
That is full 3 axis control with a pilot inside. Because we stand outside for flying it is easier to mechanicly "fix" the plane so it can be easer to learn. We add more dihedral so we dont have to be chasing it as much while we learn. After we know what to do, it can be a hinderance. Also Big planes have required handling chariteristics that have to be met from the FAA or such to be certified. On a big plane in a cross wind landing, you dont want much roll when you yaw with rudder because you are cross controlled with the ailerons. Ailerons turn you into the wind while the rudder keeps you on course. If the rudder rolled too much you might run out of aileron control to counteract and stay in control. I like flying rudder/ elevator planes some times; easer for just flying around but more difficult to fly precisely; fun to do things differently.

RE: rudder & roll
 

Learning to coordinate rudder and aileron opens a whole 'nother world of control to you. It's a necessity for flying in the wind and will make far more of your landing approaches work out.