SAITO FA65
 

who knows anything about this motor? what is factory on the needles? the manual gives different settings... it talks about 4 turns out on HSN and then at other point 3turns out... the LSN I know for sure is 2.5 turns out...

RE: SAITO FA65
 

no ,matter how well made these engines are everyone is different and the starting needle is simply a guild line, hence the variation in the literancher. I've never had the 65 but I Do have 2 91 2 100 a 1.5 and a 1.8, they all are about the same. Now assuming your engine is already broke in the High needle starts about 2.5-3 turns and lean it from there. LSN if not already factory set I start even with the barrel and turn in 1/2 turn and work with it from there.
Lean the high speed needle to 300-400 rpm rich of peak. PLay with the low end until idles well. at idle pinch the fuel line. if it speed up and dies its rich on the low end, if it just dies it's lean. When correct you should get a good low idle, the pinch should get about 3-5 second run and your transition should should not kill the motor or have any hesitation. reset the high end, reset the low end.

RE: SAITO FA65
 

I have now tried 3 turns out on HSN... will check tomorrow what its like... ran on 4turns today and it had no power in the air causing my motor to stall on both flights...

RE: SAITO FA65
 

sound like you need a tach, in order to get full power the high and low speed needles need to be set right. sound like your low end isn't set right, on a 4 stroke if your not familiar with them you can not set the hsn by ear. All turns are started from full closed, if you need 4 turns you need to pull the carb and clean it and change the glow plug for good measure. Set the needle by leaning until it peaks in RPM then richen it. Also just setting a needle based on the book is just dumb, sorry if that sound harsh but it's true, the book is a starting point, not a needle setting guild. Set the needle based on what the engine is doing.
Start sloppy rich, if that means 4 turn then do it. Then lean for peak rpm and back it off 3-400 rpm.

If propped right you should get a 2100-2300 rpm idle and 9000-10000 on the high end and a faint but visible smoke trail in the air.


The low end has to be set right as well. And it requires starting and stopping the motor a good 10 times and 15 min.

incidentally did you break the motor in right according to the instructions. They are serious about not exceeding that 4K RPM when first run, and I don't exceed 6K until the 3rd tank and don't fly until the 4th-5th tank.

Also it is cowled? if it is is the cowl vented properly?

What plug are you using

what prop should be around 13x7 12x8 14x6

what fuel, I like ys20/20 but you need at least 15% nitro and 20% oil

Is the tank set up right. 2 line system, with the nipple on the same lvl as the carb barrel. no restrictions in the line, if you have a fueler valve try running without it, you might be getting an air bleed.

How old is the engine, how much run time, when is the last time the vavles were set, I need to do mine it seems every 6-7 gallons

RE: SAITO FA65
 

13x6 prop... motor was broken in when I bought it... and 3 flights after break in... I have a TACH... I leaned it to 9500 RPM but still in the air it was useless... sounded like it was gobbling fuel with loads of smoke... I am now 3 turns out on HSN and 2.5 on LSN... hopefully it will be better tomorrow... OS F plug I am using currently...

RE: SAITO FA65
 

loads of smoke is a sign of a rich setting

RE: SAITO FA65
 

I know, thats why I have leaned it now to 3 turns out... will be able to see the diff tomorrow only... could start it up sounded good... but its strange, it gets up to 9500 RPM at ground level, doesn't that mean it will be ok in the air? cause it definably wasn't...

RE: SAITO FA65
 

im getting stuck on you just set it 3 turns out, you tune the hsn while the engine is running, are you tuning it while the engine is running at full throttle, mine end up around 2 turns, not sure of the count cause I don't count them. lean it a couple clicks at a time and watch the rpm rise. keep doing this until you see the rpms drop then richen the needle 5-6 clicks, verfy it's about 3-500 rpm less than the verified peak. Also most of us use an old allen wrench and secure it to the hsn with the set screw to make it easier to tune. if it goes much above 10000 then put a bigger prop on. The LSN you'll have to stop the motor to adjust it because you just can't get to it. Again if the lsn is not set right it will affect your high speed setting. it sound like your running it really rich

RE: SAITO FA65
 

its a real problem, cause I cant get my response right even though I am leaning the LSN once my peak is round 9500 RPM on High end side... I can get to my LSN without shutting motor down, got very long screw driver and made hole in cowl... you ever tune the LSN less than 2.5 out? like lean it more?... once I start leaning the response worsens... so I go back to rich then it bogs in the air...

RE: SAITO FA65
 

Is there someone experience that can help you set up the needles? Sounds like you might need some help.

RE: SAITO FA65
 

I just need to get it right once, then I will be good... at moment I just don't know... I am going to flyers club today, will ask someone there to help...

RE: SAITO FA65
 

I have a saito .65 and it runs great. I have it proped at 11x 7.5 and tach it to 10K. the 11x 7.5 is a very good prop for this motor. I might try a 12x6 or 12x7 some day, 13x7 might be alright not sure about that though.

I think I would prop it so that you can get above 10k with the tach, but don't go over 11k and then richen it back to 10k.

I don't count the turns unless I am starting over again and then I set it rich to start and use the tach to finish setting it at full RPM's. I have the plane secured very well when I do this.

I never lean any of my saito to a lean setting, I always use a tach and the right prop for the motor.

One other thing, not sure any one said this but the valves need to be set before, during and after break in. Once the engine is broke in, they very seldom need the valves set. I went and got the book on it and it says to set the valves between .002 and .004. (.03mm to .10 mm). Its important to have the valves set properly.

sticks

RE: SAITO FA65
 

You are talking about leaning it out by turning it out. I don't have that brand, but most lean by turning hsn and lsn in or clockwise.

RE: SAITO FA65
 

o yeah true... just had my wording wrong there...

RE: SAITO FA65
 

just remembered, I was told that if you want to swing a larger prop on a 4 cycle open the valve settings up a little.

I am not sure how much , but going to .004 or .005 inch's would be a big jump. I still think the 13x7 is a little big, but if you bump the valve gap up a little it might work.

sticks

RE: SAITO FA65
 

not gonna play with stuff I dont know about yet... even the 13x6 I think is limits for this motor... I am gonna get a 12x8 and see how it goes... my plan is also to get the RPM up to almost 11 on ground... got it to 10500 with 12x6 rich setting... wanna get prop that will give me closer to 11 with the same setting... I gained 500 all ready from going down from 13x6 to 12x6 with the same tune...

RE: SAITO FA65
 

it is not a good idea to go above 10K on the ground, you'll exceed 11k in the air, not good for the motor

RE: SAITO FA65
 

I just went and checked and I am running a 12x6 on my saito .65 and 11x7.5 on the saito .56.

12x6 does seem a little on the small size for the .65 if I can run a 11x7.5 on my .56's. I run a 12x4 on the saito .50's.

13x7 might be a very good prop for the .65.

I may bump the prop size up on the saito .65, and do a thrust check on it before I fly it. I just hook up a cheap fish scale on the tail of the plane and tie the other end to something and get a pound reading of the scale. It just give me a idea if one prop is pulling better than another at full 10K RPMs

sorry about the mix up on prop sizes

just thought about looking at the book on it.

The book for the saito .65 says "sport 12x6 12x8 13x8"
"scale 13x8 14x5 14x6"
"aerobatics 11x9 12x8 13x6"


sitcks

RE: SAITO FA65
 

i see 12x8 and 13x8 are popular... I just don't want to run out of steam in the air... it sounded like it with the 13x6 so I don't know about the 13x8 which is faster prop so will it be better option than 12x8 which will be even faster I suppose?

RE: SAITO FA65
 

I ran a 13 X 6 APC on my 65 on a original Ugly Stick. Seemed pretty hot to me

RE: SAITO FA65
 

but I think the stick is smaller and lighter than my CAP... might have made the difference...

RE: SAITO FA65
 

yes it would

RE: SAITO FA65
 

I have to agree with the 10K RPM limit on the ground, as it will unload in the air and that will put it over the 11K RPM limit. Plus running a little rich will add to the life apan of the engine.

If your going for speed, go with the smaller dia. prop and the higher pitch. But keep the RPM, at 10K. I think that will give you a faster flying plane , if thats what you want. I am not sure how that works with the 4 cycle's and the limit on RPM's.

If you need more power or speed, it would be better to go to a larger engine.

sticks

RE: SAITO FA65
 

cool man... yeah i am gonna try a variety of props but run all at 9500 and see which one gives me more speed in the air...

RE: SAITO FA65
 

Needle settings are just a starting point. You have to tune the engine to your particular set of variables. A tach is a great tool for this.