Orientation question
 

I have soloed some time ago. I always had somebody experienced standing next to me when I flew my plane...
I was able to take off and land while still keeping my Sig Kadet LT-40 in good shape - usable for the next flight :)
Last Monday, I went with my son to fly after work. I took off with no problems, let me son fly via the buddy box and then I decided to land. At that time, there was nobody else at the field.
I approached once, lowered my altitude and air speed and decided to make another approach for a final landing.
On the second approach, the plane was low, it was coming to the center of the field (at least so I thought) and I was sure it was going to be another successful landing. However, all of a sudden, the plane went out of sight... when I tried to figure out what happened I heard a laud hitting sound... I hit a tree that was right on the far side of the field across from where we stood, in a distance of about 900 feet away to my left... :eek:
When I went to get the plane from that place, I was surprised to see that it was just sitting on the ground, almost intact. The only problem was the front wheel that was bent a bit.
I took the plane back to the pits, fixed the front wheel , tested all controls, ensured everything was in place, re-checked all servo connection and did an on ground radio test. When it all looked OK, I decided to try again.
I took off again, and decided to practice my landing. I approached to land, from the same direction. I asked my son, who stood next to me, to let me know if he thought that I was off the field (in an effort to avoid the mistake I made in the previous approach). When we both though that this time everything was OK, and that this time we are going to land fine, I hit the exact same tree...
I cannot explain it, but I'm sure there is something wrong with my ability to estimate the distance. What I wanted to ask you guys, is how do you handle that? What can I do to overcome that problem?

BTW: The plane got tangled at the tree top and I had to get the telescope pole from the club's shed to get it down. The plane had no damage until it fell to the ground and the rudder was broken...
Saturday, I'll try again...

Thank you for any advice,
OG.

Orientation question
 

OG,

What you are experiencing is a VERY common problem for new pilots. You are focusing so hard on your plane that you are not watching where you are at on your decent.

Something you might try is get into the habit of repeating a small mental checklist on your final approach. It would be something like this.

1. Keep the wings level

2. Check my sink rate

3. Where is the plane relative to the runway


Keep looping this over and over in your head until you touchdown. When you check your position relative to the runway just cut your eyes quickly down to the runway and then back to the plane. This will help you to mentally judge where you are at relative to the runway.

Good luck and hope this helps!

Orientation question
 

Your only real gauge of distance is the size of the plane. It takes practice to know how far away it is.

I suggest you fly a smaller pattern around the runway. Don't make the final turn so far out and keep the plane up above the tree line. Make some practice approaches without landing until you can more accurately judge you position and altitude.

I think it is good for begineers to practice lots of approaches without landing. A good landing is easy to make if the approach is good.

Tom

Orientation question
 

I've had a few students with this problem. I had them watch for the shadow of their plane on approach, that seemed to help them with both their orientation and flare.

HTH, Jim.

Orientation question
 

Chain saw.

Just kidding.

The suggestions above are all good ones. The tree does sound far enough away that you shouldn't have too much trouble turning inside it. It's hard to explain how the brain does depth preception beyond the point where the seperation of the eyes doesn't help any more (not far, though I forget the number). Anyway, I can tell you for sure that depth perception with the models is a learned skill, and yours will get better with practice.

Orientation question
 

As you fly more you'll be less glued to your plane and what's it's doing and more aware of the general area around it and what you want it to do. It just takes time.

Initially, I always find a distant object that lines up with the center of the runway and guide my plane to turn "at" that object for my final. If you just use the plane as a guide and try to figure out where it is in reference to the runway, you'll probably miss a lot.

In lieu of any distant objects to line up with you can use yourself.

You're standing back a little from the runway, but you're close, so bring it to you. Guide it toward yourself. When it gets in a little closer you'll know just where it is and can make minor adjustments to line up with the runway.

Think references. Good luck!

Orientation question
 

I don't know if this would help or not, but if it is a depth perception thing, walk the plane out to where you should be on a straight line for landing with nothing in between. Go back to where you fly from and look at the size. Maybe have your son hold it in the air at different angles to get the size in your mind. (Oh make sure no one else is flying at the time or the field is empty.) I don't know if this would help, but it would give you a perspective from where you fly from to what size the plane appears to be on approach.

Orientation question
 

I this I have that same problem but mine is due to the fact that I have only one good eye. I have to fly towards myself then use the rudder to adjust. That is also why I alway take the flightbox at the end of the field in which I will land. It may not be the best way to do it, but it has worked great since I started it.

Orientation question
 

Its extremely common to think a plane is closer than it actually is.

I don't know why, unless it's because there is nothing else in your line of sight and that makes you believe its closer as you concentrate on it.

It especially becomes a problem if you change to a bigger aircraft.

I like the suggestion of placing the plane on the landing strip and walking to where you will be standing when you are landing and trying to remember its size, which is all you have to go on to judge distance.

As with other things related to landing, practice helps.

-David C.

Orientation question
 

Thank you all for those tips.
I'll let you know how I did when I'll come back from the field on Saturday...

Thanks again,
OG.

Orientation question
 

While your son is holding the plane up, have him shriek some engine noises and run around while holding the plane.....you stand a better chance of getting it back intact (unless he trips).

I agree with all the threads. There's nothing that helps landing well more than landing LOTS. Boring holes in the sky is fun, of course, but a good greased-on landing is a thing of beauty. If you're alone at the field, just keep landing!

Nice practice is:
Touch down
Gas it and take off again.
climb straight out to a couple hundred feet
Hammerhead turn (or whatever they call it - go vertical and before the plane stops, kick in full rudder, do a 180 and head back down vertically)
If you did it correctly, you'll still be in line with the runway.
Land
Go back to step one.

This gives you practice with lining up, landing, throttle control, rudder control and all kinds of stuff.

I never had a plane with too much power. I mean that literally - I'm not a speed freak. When you take off, leave the throttle on (I rarely used full throttle on take off). Climb away, then still with throttle on, go vertical. My planes would run out of poop and begin to stop. The propwash, when you throw in full rudder, will turn the plane quickly. Then chop the throttle and get ready to land.

*grin* have fun. Maybe put some light colored trim on the leading edge of the wing also, to provide contrast and depth when the plane is below the tree line.......

Orientation question
 

When training students, I make them fly a square pattern. On our field it is along the edge of the trees on the far side, in front of the trees on the left, then across the runway. Right side trees are a long way away, so have them make rectangle symmetrical.

What this does is let them get familiar with the size of the field (besides it is a good size pattern.) They will get familiar with judging distance as far as the field limits. Also, it forces then to "fly the plane where we want" and not where it happens to go.

Two suggestions:

1. Fly over the "problem area" in a normal pattern. Have someone with more experience tell you if you are too far or too close.
2. Have someone else with a similar plane fly over the area. Or have them fly your plane over the area.

It is best to fly 2-3x the height of the trees. Too high is more difficult to judge distance. Work on your judgement while flying, not later on the approach.

My students ralrely get confused on landing. I drill them on "Flying the pattern" I know they get bored with it, but it needs to become automatic.

Landings are just the same pattern but cut power at end of downwind leg. Then they fly just the same and finish the pattern to the runway. Most of my students first landings are surprises. I have them fly the pattern and cut throttle and do an approach. Go around until they always come in where we want. Then I'll tell them, "OK, don't go around, just keep it level and LAND."

Almost all of my students do near perfect first landings. Suprises them: "I thought landings were hard". No, landings are easy when you put the plane where you want. Hardest part is me holding that stupid trainer button for hours while they "Do the pattern."

Orientation question
 

Rob,
Not that your advice is bad but OG, DO NOT try this if the wind is blowing. Landing downwind is hard enough when you have some experience, but for a new pilot it could cost a plane.

Downwind landings aren't recommended unless you have to, like a bad position on a dead stick. It requires keeping a lot more speed and decent thumbs.

Now performing the take-off into a stall turn as Rob suggested is good practice. But I'd suggest that from there, you do a low flyby over the runway into another stall turn, then land (upwind). ;)
Dennis-

Orientation question
 

Sorry, DB (and newbies) - that advice was meant for a totally flat-calm day. I didn't think when I posted. My favorite memory of this kind of playtime was a Sunday morning, flying with a buddy (ex-WWII Corsair pilot - really) with a low cloud ceiling. Go up, 'touch' the clouds, return, touch'n'go and do it at the other side of the field. With 2 of us doing it, it was a ball.....

Re: downwind landings - we were flying off a frozen lake with probably 10 mph wind........yeesh. Downwind takeoffs were at probably a zillion miles-per-hour or so and landings resulted in a 1/4 mile rollout. Don't try this at home!!!!!

Orientation question
 

Just got back from the field.
I tried to do my best and with help from my instructor I did a whole lot better. :)
We practiced approaches - and I tried to implement some of the good ideas you guys have been posting here. I gained some confidence at time went on.
I landed successfully about 8 times ending up with one broken prop - not too bad IMO. :rolleyes:
My instructor also noticed that my front whell gear is too low so the prop touches the grass. I'll need to get a new front landing gear for the next time.
Overall - as many of you pointed out - I'll need to practice more and more. I can definitely feel the difference. I do hope to do better next time.

Thanks again,
OG.

Orientation question
 

What I personnaly do at a new field is to practice low and slow landings and see if I can track down the runway. If I cannot, I call
Pilot on the Runway
then go out and aim for my head to land! :D

Orientation question
 

The way we used when I was learning to land was to make the turn to final slightly past the runway. Our field doesn't have any trees, so its not a problem for us to do that. Eventually, you won't need to do it anymore and then you learn exactly where the plane needs to be for a centerline touchdown.

Orientation question
 

LoboFlyer, I will try that next time but my fear is that I will not line up correctly and hurt someone up stream.

Orientation question
 

I forget who said it (in this thread?) I also like the 'square' approach pattern. I would chop the throttle while on 'long' final (parallel to the runway, but heading for my turns onto 'short' final). Gauge the rate of sink, one 90 degree turn, then another one when I judged I was lined up with the runway. Then it's a matter of just waiting for the plane to settle onto the runway prettily, exactly where you want it - hopefully.