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New to flying
So I've always been interested in rc planes since I was young. I've watched a AMA member who is the head of the local rc plane club in my area fly. I used to do computer work for their office and he seemed like a rather cool guy. Later I found out about his plane hobby and decided to go watch him fly at a local field during our lunch breaks. This was quite a few years ago and for one reason or another I never had time/bothered/whatever to get into this back then. I've always wanted a plane and this brings us to the current. My girlfriend got me one for xmas this year. She got the Hobbico NexStar(gas) with AFS of which I'm not allowed to open until I get off for xmas. I went ahead and ordered some other things that I figured would be needed. It looks like basically I'll be all set come time to use it. Itook the time to also purchase RealFlight5.
I've played games since Atari when I was little and most of this flight stuff is second nature growing up with MS flightsim and what not on the computer. So I guess I'm not really doing that bad with realflight so far. I still run into the "plane is flying towards me but I do the wrong direction thing" ever so often. Flying away from me is pretty natural from the years of gaming. So far I've got about 5 hours in on it and I can land the NexStar without much issue. So basically I've got alot of questions and hope I can get alot of these answers I'm looking for. I also took the time to read gettingairborne.com. I already knew alot of this stuff from my years of being interested and doing some research. Some stuff like prop pitch and a few others were welcomed though and overall I plan to read it over when I before I open up my plane. So one of the problems I seem to have with RF5 is I can't judge the alignment of the plane when it's coming in or flying by the runway. I know it's basically "sorta" parallel to the runway or sorta aligned for a landing. But I can be off by probably as much as 20 degrees. Which to me seems pretty huge when you want to land IRL on say a road. Is this just a issue of computer games and should I expect to have a much better feel when flying the actual plane? I imagine I will, but really I have no experience at this. Most sims or games you are either the center focus in a 3rd person view or are behind the wheel so to say. Watching something move towards me in the air while the camera slowly rotates is a new experience. Overall how "close"? is RF5 going to be to actually flying this plane. I guess I should note that I've been flying it on advanced and also with AFS off on the NexStar. I subscribe to the sink or swim learning theory. So I started with it being on advanced as to not cheapen the learning experience since I've already been introduced to "flight" in computer games/sims. So in another monthI'm guessing I'll be pretty adept in flying quite a few planes in RF5. Is this the type of thing where if I can fly it well in RF5 I'll fly decent IRL, or are these basically apples and oranges. The thing I don't want to do is waste the time and money I'm putting in this hobbie. I was reading also about good habits and bad forming from RF5 and people treating it more as a game than what it really is as a simulator. What are all the things I should be doing to form good real life habits? What extra do people do to check their planes before they fly etc? Is there a list of steps somewhere? I'm guessing the general check flaps etc etc. But I'm sure Iprobably don't even know 50% of what I should be checking or doing to form these "good habits" that will keep my plane flying rather than malfunctioning in the air. I don't want this first post going on to long, which it already is. So I'm just going to see what type of responces I get and go from there and ask questions as they come up! |
RE: New to flying
Number 1.- get to the club and find an instructor. Sims are nice, but not the real thing. Number 2 listen to the instructor. Number 3 make sure you get your AMA card. number 4- have fun.
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RE: New to flying
First of all, welcome to the hobby.
The sim is a good tool for practice and for getting parts of actual flight correct.. like right and left turn, both coming toward you and going away from you. Then the other aspects of it, trim and straight and level flight. All very important. The problem with the sim is the perspective you get on the monitor versus what you get in real flight. You can see the ground, see the surroundings, and watch your plane as you make the approach.. all in real flying, not with the sim. With the sim, you have to remember the background so you get the alignment correct. This is basically the same with real flying, but you can see the background as well as the runway when you fly the real thing. Again, the sim is a good tool, but not the substitute for the real thing. The best you can do is to practice with the sim, and then fly the Nexstar with an instructor with you on a buddy box. You may proceed through the training faster as a result of the sim, but the buddy box part is really needed so you learn the basics and gain the experience from the instructor, about flying, trim, emergency procedures, approach and landing... and the take-off. All necessary if you are going to get the basics right and continue in this hobby. A very important part of the flying is the preparation and pre-flight. You cannot learn this from the sim. Then, the in-flight problems that come up, such as trim (I already mentioned that, but a very important part of the RC flight) you cannot learn from the sim. Yes, continue with the sim, but find a club and an instructor, and get together with that person and learn that way. Again, welcome to the hobby. The Nexstar is a great trainer, I had one and trained on it. It's still around, owned by someone else, but still flyable and training others on how to fly. CGr. |
RE: New to flying
Hey Irish!! How goes it?
CGr. |
RE: New to flying
<font size="2">
While the simulator is a good tool to use for training, it should in no way be considered an instructor tool. I have seen many people use the simulator before ever contacting an instructor and often they will pick up and develop bad habits from the simulator. Often times these bad habits will have to be "un-learned" when an instructor is contacted. Don't get me wrong, I think that the simulator is a great tool to help decrease the training time needed when learning to fly. But this must be done properly It should be used to PRACTICE skills that are taught each training session. When done in this manner it is indeed a cheap and safe way to practice these new skills.</p> There are some things that most simulators aren't as accurate on as in real life, and these differences can often times give new pilots a false sense of security as to what they are capable of. A simulator is nothing more than a teaching tool, just like a buddy box is. It has a specific set of circumstances where it's use is applicable and it needs to be used properly like any other tool.</p> Here's a list of some of the "bad" habits one can develop: 1) Failing to keep the plane straight during takeoff run. 2) Climbing out too steep. 3) Not maintaining a constant altitude while turning. 4) Turns that aren't smooth, too sharp, etc. 5) Forgetting that there is a left stick. 6) Not lining up with the runway during landing approach. 7) Using ailerons instead of rudder to make course corrections when landing. 8) Using the elevator to extend the landing when you realize you're short. 9) Failure to learn the signs that a plane is about to stall, and what to do to avoid it, or recover from it.</p> </p></font><font face="Times New Roman"> The sim is NOT</p><ul>[/list]</font> <ul>[*]Going to teach you how to tune your engine[*]Going to teach you how to correct fuel system problems[*]Going to teach you how to set up your linkages[*]Going to show you about lateral inbalance and surface warp[*]Going to locate errors in assembly[*]Going to teach you how to maiden a plane[*]Going to trim out your plane[*]Going to simulate other flyers at the field[*]Going to blow a hard gust of air at your plane at just the wrong time[*]Going to simulate that hard sink thermal just off the runway threshold, though doable in G4[*]Going to have a bird come out and attack your plane in the air[*]Going to give you the weak knees you'll get the first time you fly[*]Going to throw a bug in your face and the sun glare in your eyes at the wrong time [/list] |
RE: New to flying
Join local club. Learn as much as possible regarding what equipment to buy, don't buy junk.Before getting started on your Xmas present try to determine if you wish to go to electrics or glow. Much of this info you can obtain by joining club. Do get an instructor don't be fooled by your success on sim. Sounds like you've got a good girlfriend, good luck with her and flying.
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RE: New to flying
ORIGINAL: CGRetired Hey Irish!! How goes it? CGr. |
RE: New to flying
Hey am I the only one that caught that he got a Nexstar with AFS and also bought a simulator? Doesn't the version of the Nexstar that comes with AFS INCLUDE the flight sim? I started with the Nexstar ARF and it didn't have AFS. The RTF Nexstar comes with both.
Listen to what these guys are saying about the sim - it's all true. I was just like you a year and a half ago, trying to nail perfect landings on the simulator. I listened to these guys tell me that it's just a simulator and to be careful of learning bad habits, etc. They were all right, flying a real plane is just different. The sim, at this point, is to get your thumb coordination. You should be practicing flying toward you, away from you, flying the plane into vertical climbs and dives and learning what direction you need to push to get the plane back to level flight. That's it for now, until you get an instructor and he shows you how to really fly a plane. Simulators are so fake, even the best ones, that I just don't bother with them anymore. They're OK for learning a new aerobatic maneuver, but even then it's just a very broad approximation and usually ends up in teaching me a new bad habit before I even had the time to try it for real on my plane. Anyway, this hobby is tons of fun. Your girlfriend sounds pretty cool, I hope you guys enjoy the hobby together. Good luck! |
RE: New to flying
Carevin, welcome to the wonderful world of flying rc airplanes!
1st, I would like to say I'm a self taught rc guy, never seen, never spoken to a rc instructor. I started with rc car's when I was 13 or so, was sweeping the local track in no time, even beating the 40 and 50 year olds by far. Iexperienced the rc simulator 18 years after Itaught myself. The simulator is much more of a tool than I think people give it credit for. It's EASY to make a joke of it and much HARDER to take it seriously. Choose any view other than auto zoom. Mind set is everything if you want to get the most of it. With the simulator Nextstar at idle, act as if you just spent $500 on it and that you have to bring that plane back in 1 piece, it makes all the difference; to make a long story short. Back to reality, I learned on a.10, 3 channel highwing. I was nervous at 1st but, I knew the cg was set correctly because I checked it 4 times and that alone relieved a lot of stress. After full throttle and a lil elevator trim, it was hands off. I came in for a high landing approach, lower and lower each pass and eventually the plane was back on the ground with no scratches http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f.../msn/49_49.gif. Before I knew it, I just made a self taught solo and didn't realize ittill a few seconds later, IWAS STOAKED. My point is, teaching yourself to fly rc compared to an instructor is MUCH MORE rewarding and it is possible. Many have taught themselves to fly rc and have spenthundreads, even thousands,I have spent zero except on fuel. PASSION, TALENT... More importantely, talent play's a huge part in learning rc, somehting you hear little about. From a young age, I knew I had abnormal talent and couldn't wait to put it to work. I've taught student's in 1 day and others took several weeks/ months. It's easy to tell somebody to do something, but it goes so much farther than that. If you feel you have lil talent, I say find an instructor, if you have solid talent and you know it, I say go for it. I've probably made more maiden's per the experience than anybody you will ever meet. Speaking of talent, the biggest rc plane I ever flew weighed about 25 lbs. On landing I chipped the prop, nothing more; never broke a prop in over 20 years. How many old timers can say that? My brother is having a custom Air Tractor ( Crop Duster ) built this winter. From what I hear it will be the 1st and only turbine powered duster in the world to date and will have roughly 138 in. wingspan and weigh some 50 lb's, about 8K worth of goodies. The plane is barely on the building board and I'm already bored of it, just to give you an example ofwhat talent can do and how importantit is. The Air Tractor isatleast6 monthsaway and I've already landed it 200 times, MIND OVER MATTER. Wether you have it or not, abnormal talent is one hell of a thing to beat. OLD SCHOOL..... |
RE: New to flying
ORIGINAL: Carevin So I've always been interested in rc planes since I was young. I've watched a AMA member who is the head of the local rc plane club in my area fly. I used to do computer work for their office and he seemed like a rather cool guy. Later I found out about his plane hobby and decided to go watch him fly at a local field during our lunch breaks. This was quite a few years ago and for one reason or another I never had time/bothered/whatever to get into this back then. I've always wanted a plane and this brings us to the current. My girlfriend got me one for xmas this year. She got the Hobbico NexStar(gas) with AFS of which I'm not allowed to open until I get off for xmas. I went ahead and ordered some other things that I figured would be needed. It looks like basically I'll be all set come time to use it. I took the time to also purchase RealFlight5. I've played games since Atari when I was little and most of this flight stuff is second nature growing up with MS flightsim and what not on the computer. So I guess I'm not really doing that bad with realflight so far. I still run into the ''plane is flying towards me but I do the wrong direction thing'' ever so often. Flying away from me is pretty natural from the years of gaming. So far I've got about 5 hours in on it and I can land the NexStar without much issue. So basically I've got alot of questions and hope I can get alot of these answers I'm looking for. I also took the time to read gettingairborne.com. I already knew alot of this stuff from my years of being interested and doing some research. Some stuff like prop pitch and a few others were welcomed though and overall I plan to read it over when I before I open up my plane. So one of the problems I seem to have with RF5 is I can't judge the alignment of the plane when it's coming in or flying by the runway. I know it's basically ''sorta'' parallel to the runway or sorta aligned for a landing. But I can be off by probably as much as 20 degrees. Which to me seems pretty huge when you want to land IRL on say a road. Is this just a issue of computer games and should I expect to have a much better feel when flying the actual plane? I imagine I will, but really I have no experience at this. Most sims or games you are either the center focus in a 3rd person view or are behind the wheel so to say. Watching something move towards me in the air while the camera slowly rotates is a new experience. Overall how ''close''? is RF5 going to be to actually flying this plane. I guess I should note that I've been flying it on advanced and also with AFS off on the NexStar. I subscribe to the sink or swim learning theory. So I started with it being on advanced as to not cheapen the learning experience since I've already been introduced to ''flight'' in computer games/sims. So in another month I'm guessing I'll be pretty adept in flying quite a few planes in RF5. Is this the type of thing where if I can fly it well in RF5 I'll fly decent IRL, or are these basically apples and oranges. The thing I don't want to do is waste the time and money I'm putting in this hobbie. I was reading also about good habits and bad forming from RF5 and people treating it more as a game than what it really is as a simulator. What are all the things I should be doing to form good real life habits? What extra do people do to check their planes before they fly etc? Is there a list of steps somewhere? I'm guessing the general check flaps etc etc. But I'm sure I probably don't even know 50% of what I should be checking or doing to form these ''good habits'' that will keep my plane flying rather than malfunctioning in the air. I don't want this first post going on to long, which it already is. So I'm just going to see what type of responces I get and go from there and ask questions as they come up! |
RE: New to flying
Carevin
Cost-Benefit analysis: Ask your girlfriend how she'll react if the Nexstar doesn't survive the maiden flight. Read the manual that comes with the Nexstar, paying particular attention to the warranty that if it crashes while under instruction with a qualified AMA instructor, they'll replace it. Now compare that to the cost of an instructor with a buddy box (AMA Dues, Club Dues), maybe having to wait a week or two longer to fly it. Your call. Brad |
RE: New to flying
Carevin, welcome to this amazing and absolutely addicting hobby!
I also started on the Nexstar, I used the Nexstar version Realflight that came with the RTF.. and this helped WONDERS when I went to train! The instructor couldn't say enough good things about me flying! I started at 16 and now I'm 19.. I've had about 20 planes through the 3 years (buying than selling ha) I went up to the local club and a great guy offered to train me. He helped me set it all up correctly , he took it up, trimmed, and handed over the TX, I flew a few circuits then he landed. we refueled and he took off again, gave the TX to me again and I did some low slow fly bys and he told me to land! First landing was almost a perfect landing. Started getting dark so the next day I went up to the field and SOLO'd, and never looked back! Anyways, best thing you can do is keep practicing on the sim, and treat it as REAL LIFE, like if you crash your out 400 or 500 bucks or have to rebuild, etc.... Practice on the sim an TAKE OFF THE AFS! More trouble then it's worth and the nexstar corrects itself anyways with it's dihedral. I never used the speed brakes either, the Nexstar flies great w/o all that crap on it! The nexstar is very forgiving and is an awesome trainer... Once you get flying, I would suggest a Hobbico Avistar, still a "trainer" but man are they fun, very little dihedral and very strong flying planes, I fly it more then any of my 7 planes! It's always my go to plane whether it's my first flight, last flight, or if the winds gusting at 25 mph Good Luck and hope you're ready to be addicted! By the way momsmistake a little boasting there?? haha kind of too much |
RE: New to flying
Sims are great practice but can allow you to develop bad habits and practice them over and over until they become reflexive. That can be conter-productive to learning with the "real" model.
An instructor can save years of aggrivation and several rebuilds or rebuys of trainers (and certainly more advanced models). At least take the model to a field and have an experienced pilot check it out and do the trim flight for you. |
RE: New to flying
The big value of a sim is that it teaches you orientation and you can practice maneuvers over and over and get the muscle memory going. The negative is that it can't produce random turbulence in the wind that you will always have in real life, and every model on the sim is balanced and trimmed perfectly. If you get too used to how to plane flies on the sim, your trainer will react differently and mess you up. Flying a variety of planes on the sim is smart so that you don't get too dialed in to one. You should go ahead and contact your local club and see if an instructor will take you up on a club trainer to start learning with the real thing. It's nice to be able to take the maneuvers you learn with the instructor and then work on them on the sim. The vast majority of clubs provide instruction for free, although some require that you join first. Those club dues will pay for themselves many times over in saved equipment and help from more experienced pilots.
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RE: New to flying
I would have to agree with moms mistake. I self taught myself to fly as well. The sim can teach you a lot more than people are giving it credit for. Take your trim out of wack a bit before take off, then practice adjusting in flight, Mess with wind speed, although it is constant in sim, and gusting in life.
I do suggest you find someone that is experienced to help tune the motor, or at least follow the directions to the letter, and run it in your drive way, testing all throttle conditions before you take off. Another person would also help check the plane for problems you might not be aware of. As for joining a club, do what you want to do. If you have an open field, use it, if you like having other people around telling you what to do, join a club. As far as learning bad habits with sim, I know a lot of people who have learned bad habits with an instructor. Nexstar is very simple plane to fly, and if things go good, and you enjoy it, be prepared to wanting to buy another plane in a few months. One last thing, you don't always have to land on the run way, especially if you are dead stick. As a wide open field is good place to start. Have fun and don't get too descouraged if you have a hard landing. I wish my wife would buy me a plane.. :P |
RE: New to flying
To answer a few questions. I got the sim because the one which comes with it only works on win98 2k and maybe xp?. RF5 supports Vista and Windows 7, which I happen to have. Besides I can't open the box yet remember. So having the software wouldn't do me any good if Ididn't get to use it. I won't have any issue with tuning the 2stroke engine. I've been around engines my entire life as my dad was a mechanic for over 20 years. Besides that though I was reading that this plane comes all setup with the engine proofed anyhow. So the site says. Which was the difference in the OS 46fx and fxi I thought is that this engine has the kid proofing on the engine settings so you basically can't mess it up. Is there anyway to check the trims before takeoff to get them pretty much dead on? Again I though this plane took care of the trim stuff as well, but maybe not.
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RE: New to flying
ORIGINAL: Carevin I won't have any issue with tuning the 2stroke engine. I've been around engines my entire life as my dad was a mechanic for over 20 years. Besides that though I was reading that this plane comes all setup with the engine proofed anyhow. So the site says. Which was the difference in the OS 46fx and fxi I thought is that this engine has the kid proofing on the engine settings so you basically can't mess it up. Is there anyway to check the trims before takeoff to get them pretty much dead on? Again I though this plane took care of the trim stuff as well, but maybe not. Ken |
RE: New to flying
I'm guessing I can follow the instuctions from the website you created. Honestly it really didn't seem that hard. I've been around 2/4stroke atv's since childhood. Those engines in general are designed much closer to these. I'd much rather do stuff and fail then have someone else do everything for me and not be able to do it myself.
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RE: New to flying
ORIGINAL: Carevin I'm guessing I can follow the instuctions from the website you created. Honestly it really didn't seem that hard. I've been around 2/4stroke atv's since childhood. Those engines in general are designed much closer to these. I'd much rather do stuff and fail then have someone else do everything for me and not be able to do it myself. I'm not saying that it's impossible to teach yourself to fly, as there are examples of people that have done so successfully. However, they are in a very small minority of people. For every one that can teach themself to fly there are 99 others that can't. Most peoplewho try to learn on their ownwill attempt to fly on their own, crash their plane several times, and then give up trying. Our telling you to seek out an instructor is simply because we want to see you succeed in learning to fly. Ken |
RE: New to flying
RDKen is that a new title I see under your name????
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RE: New to flying
ORIGINAL: goirish RDKen is that a new title I see under your name???? That would depend on what you mean by "new". Do Ihave a different position at RCU??Then yes, it's new.I'm now the Forum Manager here at RCU. Is it "new"??well, Ithink we did this back around May or June!!!! http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...wink_smile.gif Ken |
RE: New to flying
May or June!!! you can see how observant I am.
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RE: New to flying
Way back when I had attempted to learn to fly on my own. I didn't have a Flight Sim. All I had was a desire to fly R/C airplanes. Well, the fist plane I built was a high wing plane (don't remember what it was).
I took it to an experienced flyer and he took it up for it's maiden flight. He checked the controls for correct movement and all the linkages and tuned the engine. It had to be hand launched and when he let it go it went straight up and then stalled and nosed into the ground. The plane was a total loss. He had told me the wing was probably warped. (looking back it was probably tail heavy) Well I almost gave up but I wanted to fly. I bought numerous kits, built them, and crashed every single one of them. One day I was at a mall and there happened to be static display of R/C planes. One in particular was a Stearman which I really liked. I spoke to it's owner and he directed me to to the club's instructor. I still built my planes, balanced them and flew them with an instructor and 'buddy box'. If I had not found someone to teach me I'd probably would have given up. Now (20 years later) I use Sims when it's too cold to go to the field or when It's just not practical to fly. IMHO you can't replace the real life experience of flying R/C sitting in front of a Computer. Tom |
RE: New to flying
I have started in R/C 3 times now. With a several year break inbetween each attempt. And only 1 to 2 dozen flights made during each incarnayion. During my first RC incarnation I totaled a trainer A/C once. Now that I am retired I think I can stick it out for awhile. I bought Realflight before I started flying again and I think it really helped me with thumb control. But fighting the wind and the sun in your eyes cannot be simulated. I am glad just the same that I flew Realflight for a month or so before my third solo.
Man did my knees ever shake. I have made 2-3 flights every day this week and I am lovin it. I also have had severel member of my club here at Jacoway field in Alabama help my trim my model and check things like my idle. You will find that club members are happy to help. Do not be embarrassed to ask for it. Anyway...good look pardner. Welcome to the show. |
RE: New to flying
What everyone has said about getting an instructor at the local field is the best advice. The nextstar is a good sized plane and some help will keep you from getting discouraged due to broke plane blues. The g5 has some interesting features set it to expert and turn on about five miles an hour wind. this is closer to the way a real plane is, not exact but closer.
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