RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

I too have done it once, Ken is right you only do it once! I know that when I hold the stick to the right the right aleron is up! I did it with a new 2.4 radio and a trainer at the time. When it took off very nice till I went left and it went right! Long story short I had to forget it had alerons and was able to get it back bending the front landing gear and breaking the prop! Lucky and lucky i was that I was the only one out there and lucky I just missed the windshield of my new pickup! LUCKY!

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

I know its not an easy thing to do but it can be done. And a p-51 has a quick roll rate not like the yak or extra but still fast and i could not fly that aircraft with just rudder. I had to use ailerons all the way around the field. Funny thing is i just switched planes on the tx to the right plane and took back off and flew a tank of gas out.... If you fly from muscle memory then you are going to crash. You have to constantly be thinking and be ahead of the aircraft at all times..

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

It's still not easy, but everyone's brain is different, I think you're just lucky that you can think ahead that well.

I had it happen once and didn't realize it until it was too late - but another time, i was just out playing with a little toy park flier. I knew before I took off that the ailerons were reversed, but I thought, "What the heck, it's just a little slow park flier, i can remember to go backward - nope!

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

LOL you are right its not the easiest thing to do.. I would not want to do it on porpose at all...

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

I fault the instructor, not you. That's what they are for - to remain calm and clear headed in a storm. Sorry for your loss.

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

Alan
I feel you are completely right. I have done several first time flights for people and i always do a very very thourogh pre flite including control throws and control directions i would feel like serious crap if i crashed someone elses plane

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

Thanks, but no loss, all I have left is to epoxy one 1/4 wooden dowel on the front of the wing and I'm flying with the Nova again. No broke prop, everything working fine, even have the DX7 figured out now. I was vey lucky there was not more damage. So the first maiden flight , by me, is coming up!!!

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

No way he would've had time to save it, as he corrected right aileron as soon as it left the ground, rolled left as soon as he corected right, couldn't have been 5 feet off the deck.

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

If a good pilot should be able to fly ailerons revursed, does that mean if you cant you are a bad piolet? I think not. I do most of the test piloting at my club with everything from gliders,trainers,3D planes,scale, and even pilon racers. Some of which are scratch built. I wouldnt want to try revursed ailerons. The fault is with the instructor. He is saposed to check everything. I cheched all the normal stuff befor the test flight of a YAK 54 one time but about one lap into it the plane rolled inverted ind dove in. Upon inspection I found that the builder had used two LIPO cells to power the reciever with no regulator. The elevator and aileron servos were locked up and smelled like burnt wire. Now if it is someone I don't already know I check stuff like that as well...................antiquefer.

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

O.K. Here it is when i had this happen to me i had broken ground  was no more than two feet off the ground when i applied right aileron. The aircraft rolled to the left. Upon adding a little more aileron i figured out my ailerons were reversed. I was no more than 5 feet off the ground and instantly corrected with left stick input. Flew the aircraft around the pattern and landed with no damage no problems. Corrected the problem and took back off.


An instructor pilot is supposed to be on of the best on the field... He should see this problem long before that aircraft taxied onto the runway...
Pilot error was the reason this plane crashed.. If i would have done it i would blame myself..

I do agree if you put equipement in wrong ie. LIPO with no regulator then ya thats no fault of the instructor or test pilot..  But other than that if something small happens a test pilot or a instructor should be able to correct the problem.. And save the aircraft from crashing...

And billd76 It should have been caught before it flew by the test pilot period.. But im glad to hear its almost ready to fly again..


And antiquefer i never called anyone a bad pilot so dont misqoute me...

I think the dead horse has been beaten enough.. LMAO</p>

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

I have crashed airplanes for the following reasons:
Wing mount bolts came loose
Battery to switch connection was loose
Ailerons reversed
Failing to extend transmitter antenna
There are more but you try not to do them twice as the saying goes.
In my stable of airplanes I have an Uproar 60 with a two pice wing. The wing can actually be mounted upside-down since both halves slide onto an aluminum tube. Yep, I did that. The airplane actually flew that way. The aileron servos on top of the wing should have tipped me off by I did not notice. Landed OK.
On quite a few occasions I have stopped quite a few pilots just before they took off with the ailerons reversed. The strange part is they had done the taxe-out check and were still going to take off.

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

"An instructor pilot is supposed to be on of the best on the field... He should see this problem long before that aircraft taxied onto the runway..."

In theory this is correct, however if this were the rule in practice there would be no instructors around. An instructor needs only to be competent enough to get a trainer aircraft out of the typical kinds of trouble a student will put it in, and be PATIENT and WILLING.

There are already too few instructors around and its attitudes like this that make that the case more often than not. Many pilots who would make the better instructors simply choose not to teach because they dont want to be blamed for a loss that was a mistake in set up or a bad build, or for that matter landing training gone wrong. I can tell you from experience this is true. The guy who helped me to solo two or so years back almost wouldn't because he was afraid I would blame him if my bird went down. I had seen him fly, and knew someone else he'd taught, so I simply told him as long as he gave it his best effort if we lost my bird it was all on me. A risk, but one worth taking because I would likely still not be a soloed pilot if I hadn't.

I am barely qualified by my own standards to instruct, but I would willingly do so simply because there are vary few around who will teach, (because if something goes wrong SOMEONE will blame the instructor for it and try to say he or she should replace any destroyed equipment). My simple rule to prevent loss of a students plane is we use my equipment until I feel the student is ready to solo. Then if his aircraft has not been maidened we find one of the other club gurus to do so. I will if absolutely necessary but to date haven't had to. Once I am sure his or her aircraft is ready, and he or she is ready, then we box the first flight on the student craft to calm his or her nerves, after that the student solos.

(In all fairness, I also have yet to get a student to solo, but thankfully this is because I only had one student and that was my son. Sadly, he lost interest before soloing.)

So, before we go pointing fingers even for so obvious a mistake as to not check control surfaces before flight lets remember to tread lightly lest we have no one left that is willing to risk taking on the title "Instructor"

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

I blame the instructor as several have mentioned before.... In my years i have taken off with ailerons reversed on 3 different occasions times... 2/3 survived to fly that same day.. On an avistar by the time i figured they were reversed i was upside down so i chopped the power and landed it upside down in a patch of high grass...3 minutes later flew her again... My best one yet happened in the past year on a .40 ultra sport ...With the help of a buddy of mine i concentrated on flying with the ailerons reversed while he got into the menu (input 11) and reversed them back to normal...Since i use a touch screen computer radio, it made things a lot easier :D..

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

IMHO, I am not blaming the instructor for what happened. He is a good guy and a good pilot, I have learned alot from him over this past year. It was my (our) lack of attention to detail. But more mine. I am the one repsonsible for my plane and it's flightworthiness. That is my sole repsonsiblity. I got too occupied with trying to figure out how to setup the flaperons and dual rates on the Tx, when I should've just been doing a simple control surface setup and then, after the maiden flight, correcting the CG (if needed), tweaking the low end end mix (if needed) and then worrying about the dual rates and such. Damage was minimal. The Nova and I will fly again! I never meant to start a thread to post blame to anyone. But if blame must be placed, it should be on me! I knew that I didn't fully understand the Tx setup. I should not have maidened the plane. I had a gut feeling as I taxied out to the runway, that something just wasn't right. Anyway, fly and learn! And thank god for epoxy and silk!!! :D

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

I see everyones point..... And yes instructors are hard to come by.... It is a sad thing...

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

I will say one thing Bill, you do man up, and I would share a foxhole with you.

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

:D:D:DFoxhole??? A foxhole is a place to hide in. Marines call them fighting holes! But Ditto, come on in and join in the fight!

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

I will then share a fighting hole with you. We won't get hurt will we????:D:D:D

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

:D:D There's always a chance, all be it a small chance. As a great Marine by the name of Colonel Chesty Puller, once said at the while surrounded at the Chosin Reservoir. " They're in front of us, behind us, to our right flank and left, they can't get away from us this time". Of course the Corsair close air support helped out considerably.

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

To Funny. God Bless You.

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

Nicely put Bill

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

In the Navy we called them, "A place where we keep Marines"

:D

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

I was a Supply Sergeant in the Army. We called them latrine pits!!!!!!! http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...sn/biggrin.gif

Ken

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

LMAO That was great Mike B!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dang old JAR HEADS</p>

RE: NOVA maiden and crash
 

see Bill

I started out by saying it must have been an army guy. Now you know:D:D:D