Flaperons Pros and Cons
 

I think I am going to receive a Great Planes Escapade for Christmas and after flying one on the LHS sim, it looks like it wil be a tiger to land so am thinking of setting up flaperons.

What are the pros and cons?

Where do you start in setting them up?

RE: Flaperons Pros and Cons
 

you need 2 aileron servo's in the wing for flaperons. you also need a 6+ channel tx to do the mixing.
i would start with the flaps around 10 degrees and work your way up, some of mine are around 30 degrees.
flaps create lift and allow your plane to fly slower, they dont always slow a plane down.
pros your wing will generate more lift at a slower speed, lowering your stall speed
cons, less aileron control, a little harder to recover if the plane does stall (its different than a regular stall, so take it up high to practice)

if you are worried about landings put a 11x5 or 12x4 on the engine and it will slow the plane down much faster than a 10x6-8
i think the escapad wont be as bad as you think.

RE: Flaperons Pros and Cons
 

The escapade should be able to land like a puddy-tat with out flaps, but regardless of that, flapperons are not a good idea.

There is no one big reason, but several little ones. For one thing, you lose some of your aileron authority. Secondly, with regular flaps, they are deployed from the center of the wing leaving the wingtips with a normal angle of attack. With Flapperons, you increase the angle of attack of the wingtips. This can cause a tip stall.

There are many planes that intentionally warp the wingtip downward (You may have heard the term "Washout" ). The purpose of washout is to cause the center of the wing to stall first so that you still have aileron control. If the wingtip stalls first, the wing will drop and the plane will just fall out of the sky.

RE: Flaperons Pros and Cons
 

PS, I am a huge proponent of using flaps. I tried Flapperons twice didn't like them on either plane, and I lost one of thos planes due to the flapperons.

never again!

RE: Flaperons Pros and Cons
 

Thanks for the quick replies. Think I will try the larger prop. Can you tell me why a larger prop slows a plane quicker than a smaller one. Could it be more drag when prop is at idle?

RE: Flaperons Pros and Cons
 

I also would not worry about the landing the Escapade. My wife has one and is flying it with an OS 46FX (way more power than is needed) with an 11x6 Master Airscrew prop. If you have a nice stabilized approach the thing will almost land itself. I don't know the actual speed it lands at but it's very slow.

RE: Flaperons Pros and Cons
 

Like Minnflyer, I love flaps, not flaperons. In essence this is camber changing, requiring elevator compensation. Not a real difficult mix, but better suited to a flap, aileron equipped airframe to help you get the feal of the required mix. Also a landing system, with a variable servo speed on the application can really sweeten out the deployment. Instead of flaperon "ON".
One of my most enjoyable aircraft is a simple electric conversion on a Sig LT25. Flaps, seperate aileron servo's on a 9303. 1st stage flap is about 30* flap, elevator compensation about 12%. Full 2sec to deploy. Just slows, no noticable change in caracteristic, other that landing speed. Full flap is about 60*, ele comp 13%. Full 2 sec deploy. Now steep slow drop in short roll out. A real blast.
-Snuts-

RE: Flaperons Pros and Cons
 

I use flaperons on fun fly type of planes but never on any of my others. They are great fun in the wind, I have them set up on a 60 size Hots but they are slaved into my elevator, the more up elevator I use the more the ailerons/flaps drop. In fun fly events something like how many loops can you do in 20 seconds they are a big help for doing really tight loops. In the glide dead stick event they can be used by putting your plane into the wind and drop the flaperons, it will hover but it will also want to stall. When it stalls out I turn the plane back into the wind with them turned off then drop them again when I'm heading into the wind again. Big help in spot landing events too but you sort of drop them and plop the plane down. If I forget to raise them on a calm day and try a slow landing the plane tries to stall when you go too slow, not a good thing. For normal flying I never use them, it's just a fun thing but can bite you in the tookis if you don't watch it. Spoilerons can be every bit as much fun if you like to fly way high and just drop in for a landing. I do have the spoilerons on one of my Extras but they scare the kappoopa out of me sometimes!!!![&:] The flaperons really don't seem to slow the plane down for landing like real flaps, I look at them as another toy to have fun with.;)

RE: Flaperons Pros and Cons
 

I totally agree with Minnflyer here. I HATE flaperons. IMHO they cause more problems than they solve. They will make the plane more prone to tip stalling and crashing on approach. I would stay away from them.

I have the Escapade and I can backup what Minn says, it's a Puddy-tat to land. I wouldn't worry about it at all as it's very gentle to land.

However, there is an alternative if you absolutely want to have flaps. As said above, the plane can be set up for either single or dual aileron servos. You could install the dual servos for ailerons and cut the inside portion of the ailerons. Then use the torque rod setup and the single aileron mount to turn them into flaps. Then you can have both ailerons and flaps on the same wing, and stay away from flaperons.

Ken

RE: Flaperons Pros and Cons
 

Generally when you go to a larger prop, you go down in pitch. a Low pitch prop is just like a low gear in a car or truck. The engine spins at high RPM and you have good acceleration but lower top speed. I also think there is the affect of a larger "disc" as the prop spins. The airframe design and how much drag it creates affects how quickly the plane slows down too.

As for the flaperons, I have never tried them myself for good reason: I've never heard anything positive about them from anyone I trust at the field or on here unless it is for fun-fly or 3D type application like Graybeard mentioned. On those planes the wing is thick and has a lot of lift; very difficult to stall. The ailerons are also generally tapered so the affect isn't as great at the tip as it is toward the center.

RE: Flaperons Pros and Cons
 

What about reversing them & using them as spoilers?

RE: Flaperons Pros and Cons
 

Spoilers are used for a very specific purpose, and slowing down a plane for landing is not that. When used the spoiles raise up and disrupt the airflow across the top of the wing. The result of this action is to remove any lift that the the produces, in effect it causes the wing to stop flying. If this is done on a landing approach it will most likely cause the plane to crash in a very ugly way.

You most often find spoilers on gliders where they need to "spot" land. They will approach the landing and remain a few inches off of the ground and then when they approach the spot they want to land in they will raise the spoilers which will cause the lift to cease the glider will land on the "spot".

So in practice, trying to use spoilers to slow down a plane for normal landings is a bad idea.  The best way is to learn to slow the plane down properly for landing.

Ken

RE: Flaperons Pros and Cons
 

I love my Escapade. It was my second plane and it flies like a dream, including landings. You don't need flaperons with it. If you can land your trainer, you can land the Escapade.

RE: Flaperons Pros and Cons
 

seperate flaps work better. Flaperons generally suck. I have both flaperons and flaps on my contest glider but only so I can drop the ailerons for launch and raise them for speed.

RE: Flaperons Pros and Cons
 

basically

i love flaperons for 3d/funfly stuff.
i do have them setup on all of my planes with 2 aileron's for two reasons, if my elevator servo went down and to try and fly a plane backwards on a windy day. i have a futaba 10c and it has a slider on the side of the tx that is bound to the flaperons/spoilerons, it is very easy and fast to access. so if i lost my elevator i could add flaperons to lower the nose and a quick burst of throttle/spoilerons to raise it. it is not pretty but you can fly most planes useing flaperons/spoilerons and throttle input as your elevator. i practice this just in case i did loose a elevator servo so far i can get it back to the runway and make a crash landing. while i abort at the last second i would most likely loose a prop and the landing gear depending on the wind/plane. that being said its better than splinters

RE: Flaperons Pros and Cons
 

Every goofy thing I do or set up on a plane is set to a switch. Sometimes this takes a lot of trial and error to set up the way I want it to. I have the spoilerons set up on one plane, a 68 inch Extra. I have taken this plane up, way up, before I tested them to see what effect it would have on the plane. They work but you may not like the effect at all. I still have the set up in this plane but will remove it, there just isn't any reason for them on a nice stunt plane that I really like. The wing looses lift and the plane will drop very fast. It's just a spot landing trick that is a lot of fun on a fun fly type of plane, the guys at the field think it's cool but it really does scare me if I don't hit the switch soon enough to get full control back. Both systems mentioned can really kill a plane in a hurry if you aren't thinking fast. I like the flaperons on the Hots but it isn't used all that often. If you are like me you have these little things you can do with your radio and want to try them, go ahead and give them a try but they often don't do things the way you want. Do everything way up high and understand you will have to do some adjusting. I have even had my Hots start stalling on landing on calm days with my set up so be aware it will happen. I had flaperons set up in most of my Up-Roars and liked them but I was in a lot of fun fly contests back then and did a bunch of odd stuff.m I don't even teach this stuff to students, I leave it as a live and learn thing but if asked I do warn against it.

RE: Flaperons Pros and Cons
 

RooMan.......first of all, welcome to rc universe.....like it or not, from this point on, you are an official member.......in the right hand's, the escapade would make a great choice.....i saw some excellent video's and reviews at tower hobbies, whether you buy the escapade or not it doesn't cost anything to look.....also, as with any plane, it's alway's wise to research first and thus pay only once.....i too was interested in the escapade and when i researched found that it comes in kinda hot......the plane is kinda heavy for it's size and the wings are not very big.....this is referred to as wing loading, how much weight per every square inch of wing......the higher the wing loading, the faster the plane has to fly in order to stay afloat.....i'm not trying to talk you out of purchasing this plane, just trying to expand your knowledge of how this plane will handle in the air, with no surprises.....it's a great plane and if you find the right motor, you will be very pleased.....look for the lightest motor with the most power and that should compensate for the heavy plane......keep your speed up when landing.......it looks like a nice aerobatic sport plane in the tower hobbies videos and will do any aerobatic maneuver you want it to.......i wish you all the luck in the air with your new venture and welcome to rc universe........KOOLKRABBER47......