RE: Electric Starters~Do You Use One?
 

Bounce Starting - Vidio


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyvLW...draMaJSRYSI%3D


I drew up this older thread since I wanted to illustrate the bounce start technique first mentioned by HighPlains and Metalic Junkie, I finally got around to making a vidio of the old and effective method.

It works well with larger two stroke glow engines and is best done when equiped with large spinners. Note the fingers are never within the plain of the propellor and only touch the spinner. Its for this reason its done without gloves.

You must acheve the perfect state of prime first and sometimes its better to use a starter on the first start of the day with all subsiquient starts being easy using the Bounce. The spinner is rapidly twisted in reverse to bounce off of compression but it never goes through compression in reverse.

Instead the engine will bounce off of compression back in the forward direction to start.

This is a completly practical method for many engines but certainly not all and I of course am a firm belever in starter use as a base line. This being in the beginners forum it can be used by newcomers however only under the tutaledge intially from an experianced engine operator. I also have developed many portable conversions for different classes of airplanes. Primarily to get rid of the dangerous power chord to a power panel.

John;)

RE: Electric Starters~Do You Use One?
 

Thank you for the video John. I see I posted 6-18-10 and mentioned I often used the back snap/ bounce but it's hard to explain in print. Or is it just hard to understand? During the winter months most of my engines require to be started once before they will snap start. Even after being flown during the summer some of my YS engines must be choked until you hear that squishy squishy sound and then they will only allow you one try to back snap, if they aren't choked just right they won't start without the starter. My SK two strokes will fire on the back snap almost every time with just a normal choke. My original instructor was always afraid to start an engine that way and if you have any fear of it at all I wouldn't do it. I find it safe but I'm the only one at the field I see starting an engine that way.;) Great Video John, thanks again!!

RE: Electric Starters~Do You Use One?
 

Yes thanks GB, Its a useful tool as a starting method among a number of others and worth learning. But just like all tools, None are perfect for every job but worth adding to our bag of tricks;)

John

RE: Electric Starters~Do You Use One?
 

What event are you referencing that you lose points for using an electric starter

RE: Electric Starters~Do You Use One?
 

I had a plastic spinner explode and shoot right in front of my eyes like a bullet a couple weeks ago. Scary

RE: Electric Starters~Do You Use One?
 

My OS engines will all start with a slap on the prop in the reverse direction and it starts right up. Pretty cool. Of course, the engine was previously started using an electric starter, and tuned properly. This works great with all subsequent starts.

CGr.

RE: Electric Starters~Do You Use One?
 

Hi JollyPopper
That is rather scary, the plastic spinner exploding. A while back I stopped using the plastic spinners and instead use only the aluminum nut/spinner. It fits well against my electric starter, last forever, and gives no problems. Sure, the looks are not as well as the colored plastic spinners. At my age, that has little importance.

RE: Electric Starters~Do You Use One?
 

I back snap all my engines during the summer but only after they have been started with a starter. My SK two strokes will snap start without being warmed up if I have primed them correctly first time every time.
During the winter my engines don't like to start, some are better then others but I often have to resort to that dreaded {by John} power panel!!!!!![X(] I jack up the glow plug heat all the way. Winter is the only time I use the glow plug on the panel. I won't get into why I even have a panel in this thread, sorry I brought it up!:D With my Buckner converted starter there is no reason to start my engines without a starter but I back snap to show off A little, it dazzles a lot of people!!:)

RE: Electric Starters~Do You Use One?
 

I picked up a rather new Hobbico starter at a swap meet, and found out my battery doesn't have the oomph to spin up a 4 stroke. :(  I had to borrow my friends starter so I could get my DLE20 to run for the first time.  After that, one flip of the prop, and it fired right up.  I use mechanics gloves for flipping, they are pretty tough, but you can still get a nasty bruise if the prop strikes a finger.  <div>
</div><div>Now to get a battery so I can start my OS.  It does not flip start yet, too new and untuned. </div>

RE: Electric Starters~Do You Use One?
 

I mostly hand start with front flip, or hitting the prop forward ,on glow two strokes. I wear a heavy leather glove. Oddly enough, I use electric starters on some diesel engines quite regularly. This is when I have an engine set the way I want it as far as compression and needle goes, but the engine wants more compression to flip start. I prime the engine as required, turn it over once to be sure there is no hydraulic lock, then use the starter. The engine will start fairly quickly, and run undercompressed until it warms up. This is with control line stunt airplanes. By the time I make it to the handle and get the thong on, the engine will be sounding good and ready to fly.

RE: Electric Starters~Do You Use One?
 

G'day

I have a couple of electric starters and use them quite a lot. One is a direct drive type, the other is a geared type. Both will start engines up to about 100 size.

I often start my Saitos up to about 72 with a normal flip. I make sure they are firing first and if the fire is particularly strong, I back flip using a chicken stick.

I always start my diesels by flicking. I often use a rubber "finger stall" for diesels.

For my larger four strokes (larger than 100), I generally prime, test for a fire by turning the prop over while firmly holding the prop, then back flip. My Saitos and Lasers all start well this way.

I don't flip my electrics although a friend has a motor that likes a small prod to get it started.

My worst starter experience was selling a Sullivan Dynatron for $20. I have been kicking my self ever since. I did not know just how good it was. AAAAAAAGH!

Mike in Oz

RE: Electric Starters~Do You Use One?
 

Ask John Buckner if he remembers where the thread is when we were talking about using the Harbor Freight 18 volt battery on our cheap starters. Most the time if I have a fresh charge on my battery my old starter will fire up the DLE 30. John hasn't said anything yet {that I have seen} but he just set one up with a nice 24 volt pack. That should really get with the program!!! Volts count for a lot!! My old starter with the 18 volt pack will roll over pretty much any four stroke glow engine made. Total cost of converting mine to 18 volt, $15.00 with a fast charger. The charger takes 3 hours but is AC only.;) John if you read this will you do a post on your new 24 volt conversion? What did that cost. A swarning about the change over, with the 18 volt if you have an engine that is flooded and locked up it can break a crank!!

RE: Electric Starters~Do You Use One?
 

Here is the link to the Harbour freight battery that Grey beard has talked about. Originally when I first started to experiment with those, they were ten bucks and I made up six of those with various starters and even my Sullivan 1/2A starter. They work great.

http://www.harborfreight.com/18-volt-battery-67029.html

Last year I also completed my home made geared starter for the 120 Dynatron with a three inch cone to use with my larger ships and that I ended up powering with a 24 volt Black and Decker drill battery. With this I use a short cord on the starter and plug it straight to the pack. This pack unlike the cheapie packs has Sanyo Cells and is a Nicd. It consists of twenty cells and I ordered it from True Value hardware for sixty bucks.

This geared combination has proven awesome.

Now recently I got dragged kicking and screaming out of pylon retirement by some of the fellows and in particular one who I have been mentoring in some of the less common modeling venues.

Anyway I found my self needing a small but light weight starter agine that while used a small cone but was much higher speed than the typical types and even the previous 18 volt units I had done.

You see one may compete in just four rounds (races) over the day but when when the competitors go on the clock you have just ninety seconds to start the airplane and launch to be ready for a count down start. Everything in the starting procedure must be perfect and rehearsed or you are wasteing your time.

So what I decided to do was use a 90 amp Hobbico Torquemaster with the same 24 volt battery. I was not sure if the switch could handle the 24 volt battery and the likely loads that the starter could pull with it but to my surprise the switch has held up beautifully. This one I took a little more time and made a wooden frame that allows the same battery to be used with both the geared starter and this one using the sliding tray as is used on the drill. It was worth the effort since I discovered that this slide mount is almost identical to the Harbour Freight battery with the only differance being the lock mechanism but with a slight alteration both the 18 and 24 volt batteries are now interchangeable using the drill slider.

John

RE: Electric Starters~Do You Use One?
 

I think that the sense of this thread is that you need to develop a feel for how engines react to various levels of priming. While an experienced modeler may have 50 years of starting these little beasts to draw from, there is no reason the newer hobbyists can't benefit from that pool of knowledge.

While I feel it is best for the new guys to use a starter, it pains me to see how little they know how to best use it. Far to often I see them throwing the prop and spinner off the front of the model because they over-prime then attack the airplane with the starter in hand.

While a too dry engine will not readily start, the signs of a too wet engine is having the prop come loose when you put the starter to it.

All of these problems go away if you just develop a bit of feel for the engine and installation. Not every engine is the same, nor do they like the same thing. But generally, once you find out what a particular engine likes and you do the same routine, then they will reward you with easy starts. You know, where you can fuel up, go to the flight line, and get a one flip start.

The backwards snap start or backwards bump takes a slightly wetter prime to work. It is also the right direction to use if your prop is slightly loose, since when it fires it also tightens the prop nut. You will know when this happens, because your prop will be in a different position relative to closing on compression than it was before you start. If the prop has moved, then check to see that you still have clearance on the spinner cutout to the prop. You do not want the spinner to contact prop.

I however prefer to flip the prop, unless I am using a sharp edged prop like the APC. Wood props work best for this, since they are fairly dull on the edges. So I will fuel up, open the throttle and choke the carb while pulling the engine over two or three times. Then I flip the engine a couple of times before putting on the glow plug igniter. When you put on the plug driver, you want the engine to be out of the compression zone where the prop turns freely. Anyway, at this point grasp the prop and slowly turn the engine over through the compression cycle. If primed well, it should give you a bump as the piston reaches top dead center. Turn it over again, and if it bumps again, then the engine is over primed, so continue to turn it over by hand slowly.

When the engine gives a bump on one rotation, then no bump on the next it is ready to start. At this point either use the starter or flip it by hand because it has the right amount of fuel to start. Either way, it will not toss the prop.

RE: Electric Starters~Do You Use One?
 

Only one way to start a glow engine....... electric starter.

in the past ,....my u-control days,...no-one ever used a starter on the typical .35 size engines we used to fly with. however now,....some 40 years later I use a starter because I don't like the idea of extended down time from being bitten by a prop. those Fox .35's were real easy starters, as well. an easy going flip or two is all they ever needed, once broke in.
I have literally never seen someone back flip or snap flip an engine to start it.